Hanshithispantz Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't see why any of them should be dropped, we have no-one to replace them for a start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Key for me is form and form suggests Cisse should be dropped. Form is temporary Class is permanent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 With the current dreadful options they both need to be on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Very poor for me last night, offered no threat at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 had a good think about this at work this morning and begining to wonder if this bloke is the problem in the club, wage negotiations, positional demands,etc, scoring goals aye- but at what price. edit- I think we would see a different cisse if ba was gone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 had a good think about this at work this morning and begining to wonder if this bloke is the problem in the club, wage negotiations, positional demands,etc, scoring goals aye- but at what price. edit- I think we would see a different cisse if ba was gone. Agree, I'm thinking we need to change things up front, one of the two probably needs to move on, it's clearly not working, I'm not sure which one we should keep because Cisse's lack of sharpness in front of goal and complete lack of understanding of the way the offside rule works is a concern too. But clearly to me we need to replace one of them with a forward comfortable playing in the outside left role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 How many goals has Demba scored outside the box for us? I know he has hit some good shots from inside the box - Man Utd at home, Reading away, Spurs at home, but I can't remember anything from outside the box. I only ask because he often seems to get the ball in space just outside the box and then hits a pretty disappointing effort at goal. More often than not he seemed to snatch at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Wba free-kick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JS Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 After reading the last few pages you would think the bloke is as stroppy as some form of Rooney-Balotelli hybrid with the footballing ability of a goat The fact is he's got an almost 1 in 2 record in total over the last 2 1/2 seasons. If he's got some kind of f***ed up contract when he signed you can mainly blame his agents / negotiators and the club for that one. What would you say if football agent(s) told you that they were sure they could get you on £XX,XXX a week? Not many people would turn around and say "no no, thats too much". You can point to our club captain who took a wage cut from a high wage anyway but that shows the mark of the man we have at the club with the armband. The club has lashed out some f***ing stupid money on absolute crap over the last few years (Step forward Alan Smith et al) with little justification and very little return for it. As much as I hate seeing greed in football (and life in general) paying somebody the extra 10-20k PW over the next 5 years if they're banging in around 15 a season isn't that bad when compared to years gone by. People on here have mentioned that he's probably the best we've had since Shearer yet still suggest f***ing him off out wide or selling him to suit Cisse who has, by and large, been woeful this season. Blame the manager, form, tactics or anything else but dropping or shifting a guy who's been putting the ball in the net in an already under performing would team be a disaster right now. Would Remy work if we sold Ba off? It's hard to say with any foresight. He's done quite well with Marseille but it's not like he plays on the left of a front 3 every game either. He would probably need some time to adapt and wouldn't come cheap either, for sure. Why take the chance? An established, top team would be looking to utilize all 3 given the choice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Between Shearer and Ba, our top scorers in the league were Nolan - 12, Owen - 8, Owen - 11 and Martins - 11. Ba got 16 last year and has 10 already this year. You don't know what you've got till it's gone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't think anyone doesn't value Ba. We just think that we would have a better overall team if he was wide and Cisse was central. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't think anyone doesn't value Ba. We just think that we would have a better overall team if he was wide and Cisse was central. Yep, and I also think that despite how good both are, the team maybe better with one of them being sacrificed for a player more suited to our best formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't think anyone doesn't value Ba. We just think that we would have a better overall team if he was wide and Cisse was central. Agreed. But I think we have an even better team when it's one or the other in the line-up. And right now the only one who should be playing is Ba. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't think anyone doesn't value Ba. We just think that we would have a better overall team if he was wide and Cisse was central. Exactly this. Amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 His situation needs to be sorted one way or another. If we can broker a deal that he'll sign then fantastic. If he and his many agents want silly money he needs to be moved on so every fucker can move on from this "will he won't he" scenario. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 His situation needs to be sorted one way or another. If we can broker a deal that he'll sign then fantastic. If he and his many agents want silly money he needs to be moved on so every fucker can move on from this "will he won't he" scenario. yep- but its a recurring theme every season, may as well be his turn, it will be somebody else next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't think anyone doesn't value Ba. We just think that we would have a better overall team if he was wide and Cisse was central. Exactly this. Amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. Indeed. I'll put some illustrative numbers on it: Ba central: 10/10 Cisse central: 9/10 Ba wide: 7/10 Cisse wide: 2/10 Saying we must play Ba centrally because that's his best position or because he's out best striker is crazy really, you can't set a team up like that. You push Cisse wide, and have a combined rating of 12/20. Play Cisse central and Ba wide and you have 16/20 which improves the team massively. They're my numbers of course, and everyone else's opinion might be different, but I imagine it's still the same outcome. The best thing for the TEAM is Ba wide. The only beneficiary of Demba Ba playing centrally is Demba Ba. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Surely you must have noticed by now that things aren't going to change while Pardew is here? Ba will be in the middle, Cisse will be on the right and our only hope of having a slightly passable season is if Ba keeps nicking us a goal. Hope for or demand a change all you want but it's not happening. We're stuck with it until he gets the boot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Silly numbers them, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Silly numbers them, like. Well you've convinced me there with your detailed analysis and counter arguments. Thanks for that. Irrelevant anyway as like I said it's just an opinion to demonstrate a point. I can't see that it matters what numbers are there, whether Cisse should be a 9 or an 8 as a centre forward or whatever daft argument anyone wants to wave about. I've not benchmarked the numbers against anything, it's not like I spent 2 hours pouring over video evidence and reams of statistics to distill a player's career down to a single digit. It's based on gut feeling to show a point. Ba on the left and Cisse centrally as a combination is better for the team than Ba central and Cisse wide. That's the argument, not whether I've got the numbers above correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Ba's not a 10/10 player centrally in any universe. Wouldn't say he's a 7 out wide either. And a 2 for Cisse? He's wasted out wide but looks productive compared to some of the crap we've had out there. Lovenkrands etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Again for clarity: it's just an opinion to demonstrate a point... I've not benchmarked the numbers against anything But for the record, Ba is 10/10 centrally in our universe. It's him, Cisse, Shola, Xisco or Ranger. Same goes for rating him out wide. His competition is Jonas, Obertan, Ferguson or HBA. No point rating him against Lionel Messi when he's not available for selection for us on Saturday. Anyway, it's an opinion, it was to demonstrate a point, it doesn't matter what the numbers are, arguing over whether they're right is the wrong argument as the only point I was making was that the team is better with Ba on the left rather than Cisse out wide. I said as much in the first post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 It's the manager's job to get the best out of the players he has available. At this moment, that includes a striker whose conversation rate since he came to this country is only bettered by Man United's £50m strikeforce. And some people want to sell him. It's utterly unbelievable. Doesn't talk that much does he Amended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Don't think he will move in Jan. I mean who is going to give him 80k a week and a long deal? Nobody. He should pipe down and get on with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JS Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Don't think he will move in Jan. I mean who is going to give him 80k a week and a long deal? Nobody. He should pipe down and get on with it. Anzhi? Apart from that.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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