Jack Flash Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 "Very good player" compared to who? Jonas and Obertan for a start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I think his natural talent is beyond question - he's got a brilliant left foot and can easily beat players when he fancies it, but I really question whether he's got the heart at times. I agree with Cajun when he says Obertan's got more determination on the pitch - though I feel both of them are pretty damn poor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 "Very good player" compared to who? eh? I don't think Sylvain Marveaux is a "Very good player". I was asking who Marveaux was being rated against to call him a "Very good player". Well you dont need rate him by comparing him to others, you rate him based on his ability as a footballer. If you dont think he's a good footballer then fair enough, but I think we've seen enough from him to suggest otherwise. Consistency and playing in his prefered position seem to have been his biggest problems. Marveaux has not been a "very good player" for NUFC yet. He has some nice skills but equally he can disappear in games. I'd want a lot more good performances from him before I started calling him a very good player. Jonas and Obertan for a start. Exactly. I wouldn't say Obertan was a good player. I wouldn't even call him an average player (compared to Premier League players). Comparing Marveaux to Obertan is like comparing Marveaux with Bale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Marveux has yet to be able to cement his place in the side or look settled in a regular position. However there's no doubt the lad has quality and can put a ball in to create chances. There's probably only him and Cabaye can do that that we have fit playing at the moment. Obertan is just plain shite, end of. Need to get rid in the summer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 "Very good player" compared to who? eh? I don't think Sylvain Marveaux is a "Very good player". I was asking who Marveaux was being rated against to call him a "Very good player". Well you dont need rate him by comparing him to others, you rate him based on his ability as a footballer. If you dont think he's a good footballer then fair enough, but I think we've seen enough from him to suggest otherwise. Consistency and playing in his prefered position seem to have been his biggest problems. Marveaux has not been a "very good player" for NUFC yet. He has some nice skills but equally he can disappear in games. I'd want a lot more good performances from him before I started calling him a very good player. Jonas and Obertan for a start. Exactly. I wouldn't say Obertan was a good player. I wouldn't even call him an average player (compared to Premier League players). Comparing Marveaux to Obertan is like comparing Marveaux with Bale. As I say, consistency has been his problem. He probably hasnt had the 10-20 games in a row that he needs. He's not a wide man either. You cant possibly question his ability though surely? As it stands, I actually think he's had an ok season. He's also popped up with a couple of winning assists in the last three games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 As I say, consistency has been his problem. He probably hasnt had the 10-20 games in a row that he needs. He's not a wide man either. You cant possibly question his ability though surely? As it stands, I actually think he's had an ok season. He's also popped up with a couple of winning assists in the last three games. I question his ability to consistently put in good performances. If he was a "very good player" he wouldn't have consistency issues. To me, very good players are those who you can bank on to play well the majority of the time. Marveaux definitely hasn't done that for NUFC yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 He's only started 8 games in the Premier Legaue, in fairness. And he still has double the assists of anyone else on our team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 As I say, consistency has been his problem. He probably hasnt had the 10-20 games in a row that he needs. He's not a wide man either. You cant possibly question his ability though surely? As it stands, I actually think he's had an ok season. He's also popped up with a couple of winning assists in the last three games. I question his ability to consistently put in good performances. If he was a "very good player" he wouldn't have consistency issues. To me, very good players are those who you can bank on to play well the majority of the time. Marveaux definitely hasn't done that for NUFC yet. I can see how this is going to go. Agree to disagree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 He is a very talented player tbf, just needs a role where he is solely responsible for attacking. Aye something that needs to be seperated IMO, a very talented player often doesn't equal a very good player. Having said that he should definitely start, especially with Ben Arfa injured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 He's a very good footballer but he's yet to prove himself a very good player. So much potential mind, his first touch and control are majestic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Marveaux is mentally weak --- you know he could do it, but he isn't aggressive enough to shine all the time. Obertan is just an idiot. You shouldn't expect much from an idiot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon25 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I think that's a lazy criticism of a very good player. Not at all. He's yet to prove he's a consistently good player for us. A large part of that is down to being in and out of the side, sure, but he's got to make the most of his opportunities when he is on the field. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 The fact our manager has decided he'd rather play Jonas or Obertan over someone who can actually produce something of an attacking threat is my issue with this whole thing. He's really not been given the chance when other players who offer some huff and puff running are given more time to play. I'm not saying its not Marv's fault at all, he definitely has himself to blame for this some-bit but our manager continues to play poor players in positions based on their graft rather than what they can actually produce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 The fact our manager has decided he'd rather play Jonas or Obertan over someone who can actually produce something of an attacking threat is my issue with this whole thing. He's really not been given the chance when other players who offer some huff and puff running are given more time to play. I'm not saying its not Marv's fault at all, he definitely has himself to blame for this some-bit but our manager continues to play poor players in positions based on their graft rather than what they can actually produce. To be fair mate I was seething that Obertan had been chosen ahead of Marveaux yesterday but Pardew said in the interview that he has a very minor groin issue but didn't want to risk him with the games that are coming up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Ack - sorry. Forgot about that and you're right. I just had this feeling had Santon been fit, we'd have seen Jonas up there wide right which again is not the place or person to play there. But my bad for not making that clear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I think his natural talent is beyond question - he's got a brilliant left foot and can easily beat players when he fancies it, but I really question whether he's got the heart at times. I agree with Cajun when he says Obertan's got more determination on the pitch - though I feel both of them are pretty damn poor. This absolutely. One of the best technical players we have, So neat and tidy. Just doesn't show he wants it enough though which is why I can partially understand his lack of starts this season. He is a bit of a luxury player and until he works as hard as gouffran or learns from Ben Arfa who was a similar liability defensively, he won't be a regular starter. Our side however is crying out for flair or just a creative spark to get players off their seat marveaux and Ben arfa are our only true flair players currently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I don't care if he doesn't contribute defensively. Marveaux isn't as naturally fit and athletic as Ben Arfa and Gouffran, so if he has to conserve his energy to be able to hurt the opposition I'm perfectly ok with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I don't care if he doesn't contribute defensively. Marveaux isn't as naturally fit and athletic as Ben Arfa and Gouffran, so if he has to conserve his energy to be able to hurt the opposition I'm perfectly ok with that. We aren't good enough to have a player going missing, not in that position anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I don't care if he doesn't contribute defensively. Marveaux isn't as naturally fit and athletic as Ben Arfa and Gouffran, so if he has to conserve his energy to be able to hurt the opposition I'm perfectly ok with that. We aren't good enough to have a player going missing, not in that position anyway. I could also argue that by having Marveaux track back all of the time he won't be in the right position to hurt the opponent when we are trying to launch a counter attack. We always play with two DMs anyway, why force defensive duties on all of the midfielders? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I don't care if he doesn't contribute defensively. Marveaux isn't as naturally fit and athletic as Ben Arfa and Gouffran, so if he has to conserve his energy to be able to hurt the opposition I'm perfectly ok with that. We aren't good enough to have a player going missing, not in that position anyway. I could also argue that by having Marveaux track back all of the time he won't be in the right position to hurt the opponent when we are trying to launch a counter attack. We always play with two DMs anyway, why force defensive duties on all of the midfielders? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I don't care if he doesn't contribute defensively. Marveaux isn't as naturally fit and athletic as Ben Arfa and Gouffran, so if he has to conserve his energy to be able to hurt the opposition I'm perfectly ok with that. We aren't good enough to have a player going missing, not in that position anyway. I could also argue that by having Marveaux track back all of the time he won't be in the right position to hurt the opponent when we are trying to launch a counter attack. We always play with two DMs anyway, why force defensive duties on all of the midfielders? Because we have attacking full backs and Santon certainly shouldn't be left to do things on his own defensively. There seems to be a myth on here that expecting our attacking players to do any defending is negative and that every other team in the league has players just standing there waiting for an attack. It's not true, even if teams aren't packed full of Scott Parkers their wide players will work in both halves of the pitch. Marveaux drifts infield too much and then disappears. Obertan or Jonas have nowhere near Marveaux's quality but they can stick wide and will get back which is why they seem to get the nod more often than not. I don't really blame Marveaux because he isn't that sort of player, unfortunately there is a better the position best suited to him, a position that wouldn't harm us too much with his limited workrate/fight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Agree with Cajun. Teams like Everton work hard at both getting forward and back, we work at the latter, but fail miserably at the former. Villa always had at least 3 in the box today when crosses were coming in, it's usually just Cisse for us, so it's no surprise we're poor on that front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I can understand why sometimes he should sit on the bench. At home to Stoke is not one of those occasions. I think Pardew must know we have a small number of match winners. Cisse, Gouff, Cabaye, Marv and Siss. Creatively there's only the last 3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Speaking of Sissoko, the No.10 position isn't really ideal for him. If it had been Ben Arfa losing the ball all of the time in the middle like that ... The wide positions on the other hand seem just about right for him given his athletic ability (and Marveaux's lack of it). Also I consider Marveaux a No.10, not a wide player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Siss does need to work on ball retention. He maye helped if he's moved deeper or possibly wider. Marv creates when he's central. But he doesn't defend much which he needs to work on. Doesn't need to e a workhouse e just needs to try. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now