Jack Flash Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'm not one who demands we spend millions every window, but the more I hear about all these extra fees added on to transfers and contracts the more I despair. I can't remember a transfer window in the past where all this extra stuff was so important/expensive, nor can I remember a window where it was mentioned as much. Call me cynical but I can't help but feel they're being used as an excuse to try and appease us after we've been promised all that money will be spent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 It's not cynical, it's blatent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Just gave NO another mention on Total Sport. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 On the whole I'd much rather have us being run responsibly than for us to go back to Shepherd mode, but the club brings in plenty of money through gates and tv deals. I'm sure there are other avenues as well like stadium sponsorship as opposed to advertising Sports Direct for the benefit of our owner. I would have thought having invested so much money in the club Ashley would at least want to enjoy the process by putting out a team worth watching. Pardew seems to think he's had good backing so I still hold out hope the two signings to come won't be a let down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Edwards running with the 35m story......with new quotes from Llambias.. One new point ..we're keeping some up our sleeve for the next window! “I can assure everyone that not a single penny of the £35 million has left the club and neither will it. It is all going back in. “We have acted early and we have got the players we wanted, but none of them have been cheap. We have paid good prices for them. They certainly weren’t free transfers, there are fees and wages to consider. “It is our responsibility to make sure we look after the club responsibly. If we spent all the money on players this summer, what are we going to do in January if we need to bring somebody else in? We are using the money sensibly.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/8618782/Alan-Pardew-defends-Newcastle-spending-policy-but-fans-fear-team-will-suffer-without-significant-reinvestment.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WashyGeordie Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Well they could of fooled me last January! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Just gave NO another mention on Total Sport. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Boy Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Edwards running with the 35m story......with new quotes from Llambias.. One new point ..we're keeping some up our sleeve for the next window! “I can assure everyone that not a single penny of the £35 million has left the club and neither will it. It is all going back in. “We have acted early and we have got the players we wanted, but none of them have been cheap. We have paid good prices for them. They certainly weren’t free transfers, there are fees and wages to consider. “It is our responsibility to make sure we look after the club responsibly. If we spent all the money on players this summer, what are we going to do in January if we need to bring somebody else in? We are using the money sensibly.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/8618782/Alan-Pardew-defends-Newcastle-spending-policy-but-fans-fear-team-will-suffer-without-significant-reinvestment.html FFS! So now if we hadn't sold our No 9 then not only would we have had no budget this summer but none next January either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Edwards running with the 35m story......with new quotes from Llambias.. One new point ..we're keeping some up our sleeve for the next window! “I can assure everyone that not a single penny of the £35 million has left the club and neither will it. It is all going back in. “We have acted early and we have got the players we wanted, but none of them have been cheap. We have paid good prices for them. They certainly weren’t free transfers, there are fees and wages to consider. “It is our responsibility to make sure we look after the club responsibly. If we spent all the money on players this summer, what are we going to do in January if we need to bring somebody else in? We are using the money sensibly.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/8618782/Alan-Pardew-defends-Newcastle-spending-policy-but-fans-fear-team-will-suffer-without-significant-reinvestment.html FFS! So now if we hadn't sold our No 9 then not only would we have had no budget this summer but none next January either. Ha, Llambias clearly taking notes from my post earlier. Hold some back to allow us to be first in line if someone unexpectedly comes on the market. Good lad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONTEMPI Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Llambias is full of shit. So we hold on until January when the prices double, fucking genius. How about we spend the money now so we have enough backup come January. Bunch of lying cheap arse bastards this lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 They'd have been much better off in January just saying, "Look, we fucked up for 2 years, relegation almost crippled us, we've had to sell an asset to make us stable again" than this £35m bollocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Llambias is full of s***. So we hold on until January when the prices double, f***ing genius. How about we spend the money now so we have enough backup come January. Bunch of lying cheap arse bastards this lot. Agreed on all counts. I'm sure Pardew himself said many times that January is the hardest time to buy players so they've obviously not consulted him on this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 All an attempt at smoke and mirrors from Llambias again. You wish sometimes that the regime would just tell the truth (as well as speaking to us more) instead of treating us with outright contempt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 While it's tempting to pay over the odds in transfer fees or wages to attract players, unless you're a bottomless pit of money, you're going to end up in difficulty. Not every transfer works out, and in any case, if the team improves you may be looking at upgrading some positions two years or so down the line. That means shifting players out, and if they are on higher wages than they're worth, you'll have problems finding a buyer, not to mention having to take a hit with the transfer fee. That's how the likes of Leeds and Portsmouth found themselves in trouble. Owners are under a lot of pressure, because many fans think that if their club pushes the boat out and buys 'just' two or three players of the right calibre, they'll hit the big time and the risk will have paid off. The more likely scenario is you experience greater and greater difficulty in keeping afloat. Chelsea aren't in trouble, but it's interesting to see what's happened to Abramovich's master plan of spending big and then running the club on a business-like basis once they've reached a certain point. In practice, they're having to spend greater and greater amounts of money just to stay still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Seriously though madras, how much debt must all the other clubs in the world be running up if they're all paying transfer fees on top of all the other standards fees that come with running a club and buying players? You mention Spurs but that's a total nonsense because Spurs spend money i.e. transfer fees. You're advocating selling but not buying, other than for free. Bringing Spurs into it is totally misrepresenting the argument. You talk like we're the only club who pays wages and signing-on fees and like it's a radical new development. How has football survived for this length of time if the standard practice of paying money to other clubs for players is so financially crippling to the clubs and can only lead to more debt? If it's true that we are making a continuous loss despite massive transfer profits and the third biggest stadium in the country, then would you not agree that the club's financial management must in fact be absolutely catastrophically bad under Mike Ashley? Shepherd's NUFC ran in profit year on year if you didn't include the dreaded outgoing transfer fees and the dividends that him and Hall were creaming off the top. His mistake was never spending money - it was letting mugs like Souness spend money on s***. His one attempt at 'keeping the powder dry', we are still suffering from. How can Ashley possibly have managed to turn the finances round so badly, to the point where the only aspect of the business that had us running at a loss is now a massive profit making enterprise, and yet the business is still losing money hand over fist, according to the propaganda. Either they're telling blatant lies or they are astonishingly incompetent at generating revenue, either way it's indefensible that clubs like Stoke and Fulham regularly outspend us. Stoke spend £9m a season on transfer fees alone, Fulham spend £7m, neither generally sell anybody worth anything and you claim Newcastle United, with a British transfer record in our pockets, can't afford a penny?! I honestly can't believe what I'm reading sometimes. I might be totally wrong on this but all I hear from the club is references to cutting costs rather than trying to generate new revenue streams. I think (but correct me if I am wrong) that Shepherd was pretty good on the commercial side of things and I am sure our corporate revenue has plummeted hugely since Ashley's arrival and our sponsorship deals are bringing in less money that before. Whilst the current economic climate and our relegation can be attributed to that, I am aware that there are corporate clients who have taken their business elsewhere because of Ashley and I also think we are a damaged brand that many businesses do not want to be associated with. And if that is the case, then it can only be down to Ashley. The impression I get is of a club (deliberately) cutting itself off from the community by their refusal to engage with the city and if this continues for any length of time, the damage will be irreversible as more and more fans drift away. We have seen before that when the club reaches out and embraces the city, that it can be a powerful thing and hugely beneficial to the club but all we seem to have now is mistrust and conflict. With regards to the incoming players, I see them purely as having been bought with the intent of selling them on for a profit within 2-3 years max. For example, Cabaye is 24-25 with a 5 year contract so by the end of that, he will be at the age where the club will no longer be prepared to offer him a new long-term deal and they will not want him to run the contract down so that means they will have to sell him probably in the third year of his contract. I see Ben Arfa as being their trump card because if he does prove a hit in the Premier League, then he will be a very valuable player. I'd be interested to know how they are selling the club to the incoming players as I have no expectation that there is any serious intent to build a team to challenge for European places only to do enough to comfortably survive. If we do start to look like we can achieve something it will be because of how well our players are doing which will then make them targets for other clubs and therefore they will be sold. At present, you can argue that the squad is better than last year and the club may yet surprise us with a couple of quality strikers but we still have little strength in depth. I fully expect there to be more outgoings - will they be replaced? I only hope that those leaving will be the fringe players rather than the likes of Tiote and Colo and that will be a concern until the transfer window closes. Sorry but I am a cynic and have absolutely no trust in the board or Pardew and with whatever soundbites they feed the media in order to appease fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Good post Wallace. I think UV had some facts and figures from the accounts showing our turnover had decreased drastically under Ashley even before relegation, though since that was his fault too it shouldn't really matter. Re: revenue streams, Mike Ashley using NUFC and St James' Park as a free source of advertising for his tatty sports wares is an absolute scandal imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I hate that whole your either with us or against us s***. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Good post Wallace. I think UV had some facts and figures from the accounts showing our turnover had decreased drastically under Ashley even before relegation, though since that was his fault too it shouldn't really matter. Re: revenue streams, Mike Ashley using NUFC and St James' Park as a free source of advertising for his tatty sports wares is an absolute scandal imo. Nothing to do with the fact we'd slipped from challenging the top 4 to mulling about lower mid-table? That occurred before Ashley bought the club. It's easy to get top whack for sponsorships when you're doing well, but we started struggling, Adidas in particular started given sponsorships to other big clubs (Chelsea & Liverpool), so naturally we're going to be in a weaker state to negotiate these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mantis Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Edwards running with the 35m story......with new quotes from Llambias.. One new point ..we're keeping some up our sleeve for the next window! I can assure everyone that not a single penny of the £35 million has left the club and neither will it. It is all going back in. We have acted early and we have got the players we wanted, but none of them have been cheap. We have paid good prices for them. They certainly werent free transfers, there are fees and wages to consider. It is our responsibility to make sure we look after the club responsibly. If we spent all the money on players this summer, what are we going to do in January if we need to bring somebody else in? We are using the money sensibly. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/8618782/Alan-Pardew-defends-Newcastle-spending-policy-but-fans-fear-team-will-suffer-without-significant-reinvestment.html FFS! So now if we hadn't sold our No 9 then not only would we have had no budget this summer but none next January either. Exactly. How much more of this bullshit are people going to fall for. So much for Llambias statement that he wont be commenting on stories in the press again. The wages of the new guys will be covered by the salaries saved from Carroll, Nolan and Campbell. Given the club has said it will no longer be giving out massive wages, I dont believe we are paying more. The fees seriously cant be as high as are being made out on here. 7 nufc transfers in the season we were in the Championship resulted in fees of less than £1.1m. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-1304251/Agents-doom--12m-cost-Football-League.html In the year to 30 Sept 2010 our agent fees for transfers was a total of £2.41m. Even if the fees were double that, the wages must have been nigh on covered and so they've spent £5m plus £5.75m on HBA. Still a missing £20m. We'll be repeating this debate until MA goes and I cant say I'm surprised Pardew is treating us like mugs now aswell. It just sounds to me like they would have spent nothing without the sale of Carroll and he is still taking a profit from transfers to reduce his eventual loss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewJerseyMag Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Seriously though madras, how much debt must all the other clubs in the world be running up if they're all paying transfer fees on top of all the other standards fees that come with running a club and buying players? You mention Spurs but that's a total nonsense because Spurs spend money i.e. transfer fees. You're advocating selling but not buying, other than for free. Bringing Spurs into it is totally misrepresenting the argument. You talk like we're the only club who pays wages and signing-on fees and like it's a radical new development. How has football survived for this length of time if the standard practice of paying money to other clubs for players is so financially crippling to the clubs and can only lead to more debt? If it's true that we are making a continuous loss despite massive transfer profits and the third biggest stadium in the country, then would you not agree that the club's financial management must in fact be absolutely catastrophically bad under Mike Ashley? Shepherd's NUFC ran in profit year on year if you didn't include the dreaded outgoing transfer fees and the dividends that him and Hall were creaming off the top. His mistake was never spending money - it was letting mugs like Souness spend money on s***. His one attempt at 'keeping the powder dry', we are still suffering from. How can Ashley possibly have managed to turn the finances round so badly, to the point where the only aspect of the business that had us running at a loss is now a massive profit making enterprise, and yet the business is still losing money hand over fist, according to the propaganda. Either they're telling blatant lies or they are astonishingly incompetent at generating revenue, either way it's indefensible that clubs like Stoke and Fulham regularly outspend us. Stoke spend £9m a season on transfer fees alone, Fulham spend £7m, neither generally sell anybody worth anything and you claim Newcastle United, with a British transfer record in our pockets, can't afford a penny?! I honestly can't believe what I'm reading sometimes. I might be totally wrong on this but all I hear from the club is references to cutting costs rather than trying to generate new revenue streams. I think (but correct me if I am wrong) that Shepherd was pretty good on the commercial side of things and I am sure our corporate revenue has plummeted hugely since Ashley's arrival and our sponsorship deals are bringing in less money that before. Whilst the current economic climate and our relegation can be attributed to that, I am aware that there are corporate clients who have taken their business elsewhere because of Ashley and I also think we are a damaged brand that many businesses do not want to be associated with. And if that is the case, then it can only be down to Ashley. The impression I get is of a club (deliberately) cutting itself off from the community by their refusal to engage with the city and if this continues for any length of time, the damage will be irreversible as more and more fans drift away. We have seen before that when the club reaches out and embraces the city, that it can be a powerful thing and hugely beneficial to the club but all we seem to have now is mistrust and conflict. With regards to the incoming players, I see them purely as having been bought with the intent of selling them on for a profit within 2-3 years max. For example, Cabaye is 24-25 with a 5 year contract so by the end of that, he will be at the age where the club will no longer be prepared to offer him a new long-term deal and they will not want him to run the contract down so that means they will have to sell him probably in the third year of his contract. I see Ben Arfa as being their trump card because if he does prove a hit in the Premier League, then he will be a very valuable player. I'd be interested to know how they are selling the club to the incoming players as I have no expectation that there is any serious intent to build a team to challenge for European places only to do enough to comfortably survive. If we do start to look like we can achieve something it will be because of how well our players are doing which will then make them targets for other clubs and therefore they will be sold. At present, you can argue that the squad is better than last year and the club may yet surprise us with a couple of quality strikers but we still have little strength in depth. I fully expect there to be more outgoings - will they be replaced? I only hope that those leaving will be the fringe players rather than the likes of Tiote and Colo and that will be a concern until the transfer window closes. Sorry but I am a cynic and have absolutely no trust in the board or Pardew and with whatever soundbites they feed the media in order to appease fans. Most clubs do run with a substantial amount of debt. In fact, most companies, not just football clubs run with debts of various levels. Leveraging a company in this way can increase its profits if the borrowed money is used to INCREASE revenues. Obviously, we sometimes in the past made bad signings with borrowed money, but this is the risk you take to increase revenues. The way we are headed now, I don't see how we can increase our revenue easily. Surely that would be speculating somewhat and trying to get into the top 6, which would then increase revenues with the added European competition. Right now we are just cost cutting with no plan as to how to grow the business. Hopefully, its to make us an attractive sale to someone else who will do just that. Alternatively, its a safe course, that will ensure mid table mediocrity for the foreseeable future (although IMO this is not without risk also) as we could end up relegated once again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'm not really au fait with the day-to-day running of your club over the last few years, but taking this from that Swiss Ramble blog: http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/5264/newcastlepl.jpg This covering the years up to relegation, there's an operating loss of 25-35M per year over the last three, partially covered by player sales. We can expect the wage bill to have been slashed dramatically, and I think that media income will have increased. However, as Wallace says, commercial revenues will have dropped. It's not inconceivable that you are still not doing much more than breaking even. Am I missing something? Even halving the wage bill in 2009 (i.e. going from 71M to 35.5M) would not have covered the operating loss. Just compare with Sunderland: http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4231/sunderlandpandl.jpg They lost a fucking fortune in the last two years, and relied on Ellis Short to bail them out. I presume that Ashley is not prepared to do the same (and the Fair Play rules will back that up), so the idea that the Carroll money would just go to balance the books is not entirely unlikely. Apologies if I've entirely missed the point. Wullie, you asked how much debt all the other clubs in the world must be building up - the answer is, a fucking obscene amount. Just in the Premier League, only four clubs made a profit in 2010 according to Deloitte, and two of those were essentially break-even. In that climate, speculating to accumulate becomes impossible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Recoba Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 After Pards comments I'm now certain HBA gets 9, as I've previously been crucified for in the Ben Arfa thread. I reckon its between Marveaux and Cabaye for 10, with Sylvain edging it. Cabaye then gets 5? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'm not really au fait with the day-to-day running of your club over the last few years, but taking this from that Swiss Ramble blog: http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/5264/newcastlepl.jpg This covering the years up to relegation, there's an operating loss of 25-35M per year over the last three, partially covered by player sales. We can expect the wage bill to have been slashed dramatically, and I think that media income will have increased. However, as Wallace says, commercial revenues will have dropped. It's not inconceivable that you are still not doing much more than breaking even. Am I missing something? Even halving the wage bill in 2009 (i.e. going from 71M to 35.5M) would not have covered the operating loss. Just compare with Sunderland: http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4231/sunderlandpandl.jpg They lost a fucking fortune in the last two years, and relied on Ellis Short to bail them out. I presume that Ashley is not prepared to do the same (and the Fair Play rules will back that up), so the idea that the Carroll money would just go to balance the books is not entirely unlikely. Apologies if I've entirely missed the point. Wullie, you asked how much debt all the other clubs in the world must be building up - the answer is, a fucking obscene amount. Just in the Premier League, only four clubs made a profit in 2010 according to Deloitte, and two of those were essentially break-even. In that climate, speculating to accumulate becomes impossible. So do you see 16 of 20 Premier League clubs going to the wall? Do you think your own Spurs will go bust because you've spent money and bought good players? Your point is perfectly valid, they are running up debt but that's football at the moment and that debt will improve them on the field. If Modric goes will you be happy if that money subsequently vanishes into nowhere and you start scrabbling round for free transfers and release clauses, and the noises out of Spurs are that your aim is to finish 10th? Saying you've got a plan to keep the wage bill down and not be stung for transfers is all very well in isolation but football clubs don't exist in isolation, they exist, in both our cases, in a league with 19 other teams who will all be spending money to achieve success on the pitch. Do you see our "model" as one which is likely to get us back to Europe and back to the Champions League? I'm not sure sunderland's accounts are good to compare with because they're shit as well. At the end of the day, I don't care about finances or figures or accounts, all I care about is success at NUFC, on the field. All the financial stability in the world means nothing to me if we finish 10th every year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Holocaust deniers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Edwards running with the 35m story......with new quotes from Llambias.. One new point ..we're keeping some up our sleeve for the next window! I can assure everyone that not a single penny of the £35 million has left the club and neither will it. It is all going back in. We have acted early and we have got the players we wanted, but none of them have been cheap. We have paid good prices for them. They certainly werent free transfers, there are fees and wages to consider. It is our responsibility to make sure we look after the club responsibly. If we spent all the money on players this summer, what are we going to do in January if we need to bring somebody else in? We are using the money sensibly. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/8618782/Alan-Pardew-defends-Newcastle-spending-policy-but-fans-fear-team-will-suffer-without-significant-reinvestment.html FFS! So now if we hadn't sold our No 9 then not only would we have had no budget this summer but none next January either. Exactly. How much more of this bullshit are people going to fall for. Some of them will fall for all of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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