Guest Geordiesned Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Soccer Scene = black and white Sports Direct. Yep. If you go to the Soccer Scene website you'll see this: "The Soccer Scene website is operated by SportsDirect.com" There's some waffle from the club that NUFC will get commission for selling Soccer Scene goods. But the space those goods take up could be being used to sell NUFC goods where they'd be getting 100% of the income! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Michael Owen was 25 when we signed him. And a genuine top level player who was although not a first-name on the team sheet player at Real Madrid, he was a regular in their side and above all else, a regular goalscorrer. In many ways he was a top-class player signed in his prime coming off the back of a very good season for one of the biggest clubs and best sides in the world. A player who was one of the first name players and number one player for his country. Sadly.... For us, we were signing someone who didn't want to be here, at a time when we were shit and managed by a shit manager so we got an unmotivated player playing in a poor side devoid of good service being managed by a complete and utter fuckwqit in Souness. Having said that, when we first signed him and when he played, he generally looked a class above anyone else in our team and was scoring goals, not lots but a good number. That injury and then returning for England too soon and the subsequent injury in an England shirt not only fucked him but fucked us. The potential right player signed at the wrong time for the wrong manager/side argument could have been said for Luque and Emre too, both hugely talented players, like Owen, whose time here will be remembered with huge disappointment. Although all 3 strangely enough scored against the mackems in victories so.... every cloud and that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Owen was alway reliant on those around him, very injury-prone and usually struggled against genuinely good defenders. He was a wrong fit here from the start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Sorry Pip and everyone else, but that was NOT a good post. Spending more money, on what? Phil Brown? Of course we could do with a few more players but the "Freddy did it right in this aspect" Crap post. But you can only wonder why the stadium isn´t full. But if it´s just because a lacking of a "M.Owen", then sorry folks. The fans would just be stupid, just stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Sorry Pip and everyone else, but that was NOT a good post. Spending more money, on what? Phil Brown? Of course we could do with a few more players but the "Freddy did it right in this aspect" Crap post. But you can only wonder why the stadium isn´t full. But if it´s just because a lacking of a "M.Owen", then sorry folks. The fans would just be stupid, just stupid. Crap post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Under Freddie, we were going deeper and deeper into debt in order to buy and pay players who were supposedly going to produce success. This success would then allow us to pay off the debt. It didn't work for us any more than it worked for Leeds. Ashley has got it right. If you're going to invest with the idea of seeing the fruits of that investment down the line, then invest in the infrastructure of training facilities, scouting, and younger players who will improve. Paying top money for top players may produce some short-term gains on the field, but creates longer-term financial problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 How about spending money on a striker? Or a right back? Or a center back? Or maybe signing a proper RM rather someone like Obertan? There isn't just two options, you know. You don't have to be a tight cunt like Ashley or spend like there's no tomorrow like Freddy sometimes did. There's spending like Man Utd: 20m on Jones, 17m on Young. Both young, full of quality and will develop. Yes, expensive, but the quality is there. Why can't we spend another 16m but this time get a player who fits better in the club and the formation than Owen did when we signed him? Or how about not wasting 10m on someone like Luque who came only for the money? There is a balance which can be achieved, which Ashley seems unlikely to do. There is 'investing' in the team and reaping the rewards after. There isn't just one option which is to cut costs and be frugal. You can do that and develop the revenue side. I'll be honest: I'm one of the most optimistic posters here. The quality of the squad is evident for all to see. The fact that I think there's a glimmer of chance that we can get 4th means that I really believe in this squad. But that doesn't mean that I have to support Ashley's strategy. An argument can actually be made that since this regime is so good at signing better players, that the marginal benefit of signing someone more expensive would be so high because we would probably get very, very good players. I think more can be done and strategic and reasoned investment can be justified. Not every owner who spends money has to do it like Abramovich does, but not every owner who cuts costs and tries to fix the finances has to do it like Ashley does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugoinufc Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Sorry Pip and everyone else, but that was NOT a good post. Spending more money, on what? Phil Brown? Of course we could do with a few more players but the "Freddy did it right in this aspect" Crap post. But you can only wonder why the stadium isn´t full. But if it´s just because a lacking of a "M.Owen", then sorry folks. The fans would just be stupid, just stupid. Crap post A lot of people (fans) have a tight economy at this time. Not many thought we would be 4th after 8-9 games into the season. Now when things are on the up im sure more will come to our (home)games. I agree big signings can course a higher attendance...but only if the team keeps winning. But lets say we had bought 2 superstars in the summer...maybe that would have sold some more tickets....but it would also have ruined the current strategy (transfers and squad) which i think is a good strategy for these though years. I still think we have "big" names in our squad....as big as we can get them atm....and i prefer so much more to see the spirit these lads have then a team build around highearnes like Owen or kluivert for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnonel Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I really wish they just said cabaye cost 15 mill and Ba was 10mill and tiote was 10 mill etc Think that would shut a few idiots up on here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I really wish they just said cabaye cost 15 mill and Ba was 10mill and tiote was 10 mill etc Think that would shut a few idiots up on here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I think they have hardly put a foot wrong since relegation and bearing in mind the spending power available to the top 3 / 4, I think our "plan" is very good. The behind the scenes stuff like under soil heating is very positive and the next sensible move would be to find a few more Graham Carrs ( the worlds a big place). I see only very good things ahead for us if we can keep this strategy going with some stability in key personell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Sorry Pip and everyone else, but that was NOT a good post. Spending more money, on what? Phil Brown? Of course we could do with a few more players but the "Freddy did it right in this aspect" Crap post. But you can only wonder why the stadium isn´t full. But if it´s just because a lacking of a "M.Owen", then sorry folks. The fans would just be stupid, just stupid. Crap post A lot of people (fans) have a tight economy at this time. Not many thought we would be 4th after 8-9 games into the season. Now when things are on the up im sure more will come to our (home)games. I agree big signings can course a higher attendance...but only if the team keeps winning. But lets say we had bought 2 superstars in the summer...maybe that would have sold some more tickets....but it would also have ruined the current strategy (transfers and squad) which i think is a good strategy for these though years. I still think we have "big" names in our squad....as big as we can get them atm....and i prefer so much more to see the spirit these lads have then a team build around highearnes like Owen or kluivert for example. yup. I was reacting because of the "logic"; more spending -> more attendance -> more money to the club There is no logic for me. sure for a short period of time there may be some more people coming if we spend more money on bigger names. but spending more money with a higher attendance is the same as spending less money with a lower attendance. My second though is that why can the fans just see the money we are spending and on what names? why would more people come if we spend more money with worse results then with less money spent with better results? sure, the opposite scenario could also be true, but why speculate when we know for sure that right now the second option is working? It was this "logic" I didn´t agree with and it is this "logic" I have the most problems to understand. I would also want to have more players. But the players should be the right ones to an acceptable cost. That would be the best for the club in many different aspects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Theoretically, at the end of the day, I couldn't care less who we bought, and how much for, or who played for us, as long as we're top of the table and winning every cup in sight. By that logic, at the moment we are far exceeding expectations, our own and the media's, and if we finish anywhere between 5th and 11th (realistically) then we will have improved on last season, and the owner's strategy will have been justified. It's a repeating cliche, but you live and die by results in football. I couldn't care less if we sold our Tiote's and Coloccini's as long as we're still doing the business on the pitch and winning matches more often than not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheSummerOf69 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Would I be happy to see Ashley sell up? Well, there are obviously worse owners out there, and we are seeing the fruits of some very good decisions at the moment even though we know Ashley is just as capable of appointing a Dennis Wise or a Joe Kinnear as a Graham Carr or an Alan Pardew, especially when he wants to do everything on the cheap. The thing that really worries me about Ashley is that he'll now think his method is foolproof: sell high, buy low. But if you constantly sell your best players then the train will inevitable come off the rails at some point... No-one (not Bobby, KK, Ferguson, Wenger - no-one) has a 100% track record in buying players that achieve, and in the long run it means we'll be rid of the good ones and stuck with the bad ones. And no-one, even those spending big, will constantly produce that magic blend of players into a team if the team is repeatedly dismantled (rather than being allowed to develop and evolve). So... on the whole, if we get a chance of different owners then I'd still like us to move on. Well done Mike Ashley for some of your recent decisions and gambles paying off. Thanks very much for your money, and I feel you're entitled to some of it back but also that you should remember that you cost yourself quite a bit by making terrible, terrible decisions in your first few years. If nothing else we can get a respectful look back for our stadium by removing all his chatty signs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 the next sensible move would be to find a few more Graham Carrs ( the worlds a big place). http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/1299/philosoraptorscouts.jpg Uploaded with ImageShack.us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Be careful what you wish for. We could get sold to foreign owners who make noises about investment. Then they could turn out to be Venky's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Would I be happy to see Ashley sell up? Well, there are obviously worse owners out there, and we are seeing the fruits of some very good decisions at the moment even though we know Ashley is just as capable of appointing a Dennis Wise or a Joe Kinnear as a Graham Carr or an Alan Pardew, especially when he wants to do everything on the cheap. The thing that really worries me about Ashley is that he'll now think his method is foolproof: sell high, buy low. But if you constantly sell your best players then the train will inevitable come off the rails at some point... No-one (not Bobby, KK, Ferguson, Wenger - no-one) has a 100% track record in buying players that achieve, and in the long run it means we'll be rid of the good ones and stuck with the bad ones. And no-one, even those spending big, will constantly produce that magic blend of players into a team if the team is repeatedly dismantled (rather than being allowed to develop and evolve). So... on the whole, if we get a chance of different owners then I'd still like us to move on. Well done Mike Ashley for some of your recent decisions and gambles paying off. Thanks very much for your money, and I feel you're entitled to some of it back but also that you should remember that you cost yourself quite a bit by making terrible, terrible decisions in your first few years. If nothing else we can get a respectful look back for our stadium by removing all his chatty signs. Lets face it apart from the mistakes highlighted Ashley made quite a few when he first entered the world of football ownership. Drinking pints in the away end wasn't smart and the biggest mistake of all (and most expensive) was bringing Keegan back. There was a lot of naivety in his early decisions possibly motivated by a desire to be popular in his new role. But anyone who has built a £2bn business from nothing will have taken risks and made fuck ups along the way, he will however have learned quickly to become as successful as he has. Likewise in his maturing role of football owner he will have learned from those early errors and while not every decision from now on will be the right one I don't think we'll be seeing any more stupid ones. Thats not to say they'll all be popular either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 What I would like to know is when he is watching the games and hopefully enjoying the football, is he thinking "one or two more decent players and we really will have a good team" or is he calculating how much he will be able to sell player x next Summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Would I be happy to see Ashley sell up? Well, there are obviously worse owners out there, and we are seeing the fruits of some very good decisions at the moment even though we know Ashley is just as capable of appointing a Dennis Wise or a Joe Kinnear as a Graham Carr or an Alan Pardew, especially when he wants to do everything on the cheap. The thing that really worries me about Ashley is that he'll now think his method is foolproof: sell high, buy low. But if you constantly sell your best players then the train will inevitable come off the rails at some point... No-one (not Bobby, KK, Ferguson, Wenger - no-one) has a 100% track record in buying players that achieve, and in the long run it means we'll be rid of the good ones and stuck with the bad ones. And no-one, even those spending big, will constantly produce that magic blend of players into a team if the team is repeatedly dismantled (rather than being allowed to develop and evolve). So... on the whole, if we get a chance of different owners then I'd still like us to move on. Well done Mike Ashley for some of your recent decisions and gambles paying off. Thanks very much for your money, and I feel you're entitled to some of it back but also that you should remember that you cost yourself quite a bit by making terrible, terrible decisions in your first few years. If nothing else we can get a respectful look back for our stadium by removing all his chatty signs. Lets face it apart from the mistakes highlighted Ashley made quite a few when he first entered the world of football ownership. Drinking pints in the away end wasn't smart and the biggest mistake of all (and most expensive) was bringing Keegan back. There was a lot of naivety in his early decisions possibly motivated by a desire to be popular in his new role. But anyone who has built a £2bn business from nothing will have taken risks and made fuck ups along the way, he will however have learned quickly to become as successful as he has. Likewise in his maturing role of football owner he will have learned from those early errors and while not every decision from now on will be the right one I don't think we'll be seeing any more stupid ones. Thats not to say they'll all be popular either. Totally agree with that. He's now following a more familiar retail model that he knows well. Keep costs as low as possible and make sure you have an excellent buyer (scout) and buy the product (footballers) at the best deal possible. He also now had a pretty solid united staff in place from top to bottom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 What I would like to know is when he is watching the games and hopefully enjoying the football, is he thinking "one or two more decent players and we really will have a good team". I think this without a doubt and he will be hearing it continuously from his meetings with Carr and Pardew. I'm pretty confident we are already beavering away on some of the weak links. The bottom line though is that he has given clear instructions that progress has to be achieved his way. By this I mean they will be looking at the wage bill / transfer kitty and insisting that Pardew might have to move some of the dead wood to bring players in. I'm also sure if Carr ( who is all powerful now) tells him he has found the next Tiote and we need the readies today, he will get them. While they are publicly talking about a top ten finish, I wouldn't mind betting there are some big bonus's on the table for getting into Europe. of course then we'll just all moan that we should be putting out weak teams because it's effect the league ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wally_McFool Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 If Ashley wants to win back the trust of the fans, I suggest he 1/... starts talking to the fans especially if he does something that seemingly rocks the boat or appears to unstabilize the club as he has done on numerous occasions so far. Maybe we might just listen to him and accept his reasons if he tries to explain. 2/... puts that obnoxious knacker Llambias out the public eye. He is as charmless as they come, has no PR skills whatsoever and more often than not causes a shitstorm every time he opens his gob. 3/... remembers that a football club is nowt without its fans and that if he looks after the club and the fans and shows more ambition than he is currently doing, everybody will benefit and he might even become a popular owner one day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkwdavis2001 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Under Freddie, we were going deeper and deeper into debt in order to buy and pay players who were supposedly going to produce success. This success would then allow us to pay off the debt. It didn't work for us any more than it worked for Leeds. Ashley has got it right. If you're going to invest with the idea of seeing the fruits of that investment down the line, then invest in the infrastructure of training facilities, scouting, and younger players who will improve. Paying top money for top players may produce some short-term gains on the field, but creates longer-term financial problems. 100% spot on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Club have also announced today that they are going to hold an open training session at SJP in October. All good positive stuff IMO. Oct 28th 10.30 - 12.30 according to Lee Ryder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheSummerOf69 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 What I would like to know is when he is watching the games and hopefully enjoying the football, is he thinking "one or two more decent players and we really will have a good team" or is he calculating how much he will be able to sell player x next Summer. Quite. It's one thing to sell a player for more than they're worth to buy some replacements for less than they're worth, and another thing to sell anyone and everyone who fetches anything above the cost of a replacement (who will have some risk to them, even though the ones this year are working out well so far). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I think the evidence points more towards selling for silly money, and at the same time not being taken for a ride by existing players who are taking the piss over new deals. That would explain most of the outgoings we've had. I certainly don't think Ashley is just looking to sell players whenever he can. That's not to say we'll never sell another good player mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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