Hatem Ben Arfa

[Stu]

True, Frazzle put it so well i'll just add, sometimes a manager or scout can be taken at their word,  pay a little more on their say so and take a little chance, your not talking £10m more but if a player is valued at £5m but the other club wants £6.5m, thats the kind of thing that bugs like.

 

a) Where does the extra £1.5m come from?

b) If we're seen to be happy to pay a bit extra to get a deal over the line, how does that reflect on future transfers - why don't all selling clubs whack an extra £1.5m on any player we go for? Why stop at £1.5m?

c) Where does the extra £1.5m from all of these transfers (3 or 4 per season?) come from? Does it all add up to an extra player or freezing the wage budget?

d) Agents often use the transfer fee of their player to justify asking for higher wages, if we're happy to pay an extra £1.5m to get a deal over the line with the opposition club, why not pay the player an extra £150k signing bonus and an extra £10k pw...afterall, it's to get the deal over the line, non?

[madras]

Obertan is s*** so Pardew signed him whilst the messiah Carr had nothing to do with it.

 

In fact, just as Obertan was about to sign the contract, Carr burst in to try to stop it but Pardew threatened that he'd do his wife if he prevented the deal.

 

Get a grip. It was said at the time of the deal that Carr had been scouting him for years.

 

 

Gets on my tits this Pardew=bad, Carr=good thing. They sign players as a team, they've always maintained this.

 

I'm guessing Obertan and Ba were Pardew's signings and Santon, Cabaye, Marveaux (does any one else forget we have him by the way?) were Carr 'signings'. Just purely as I think Pardew prefers players with Premiership experience whilst Carr seems to always be scouting in Europe.

 

I think what either want is irrelevent, Pardew and Carr can identify who they like, its about how Fatty and Dekka see a deal, if they think its value for money then it gets the go ahead, if not nothing happens.

is that not as it should be ?

 

Well sometimes they should have a bit of faith in the manager/scouting team.  Surely Fat Mike isn't the best judge of footballing ability/potential.

 

So, no, its probably not how it should be but it is how it most likely is.

and the manager/scouting team will have to think it's value for money. i'm pretty sure ashley/lambias wouldn't have heard of most of our signings and wouldn't have been personally to watch them but they, as you say, had faith in their manager/scouting team.

 

You responded to bimpy who said it will be up to Ashley and Llmabias to decide whether a player is value for money and said 'is that not how it should be', so I'm not sure what your response to my comment is, there'll probably be loads of examples where they've dismissed Pardew's and Carr's advice.  Since Colo what's our record signing? 5 or 6m?  I'm sure the incumbent manager/scouting have recommended players costing more than that.

and that always happens at every club (bar citeh) ,the manager will not get every player he wants.

 

I can see other owners being slightly more flexible though.

only within what they consider to be their financial constraints (and thats a whole other debate) or do you think ashley/lambias had a good look at tiote,cabaye,obertan,santon,jonas ?

[Guest bimpy474]

And Coloccini's the perfect example of how, sometimes, no matter how good your scouting is or how much you want "value for money", you have to pay top whack for top class players.

 

We would never sign a player like Colo now, no chance.

 

Not at that price, £10m is the past for us.

[Frazzle]

Obertan is s*** so Pardew signed him whilst the messiah Carr had nothing to do with it.

 

In fact, just as Obertan was about to sign the contract, Carr burst in to try to stop it but Pardew threatened that he'd do his wife if he prevented the deal.

 

Get a grip. It was said at the time of the deal that Carr had been scouting him for years.

 

 

Gets on my tits this Pardew=bad, Carr=good thing. They sign players as a team, they've always maintained this.

 

I'm guessing Obertan and Ba were Pardew's signings and Santon, Cabaye, Marveaux (does any one else forget we have him by the way?) were Carr 'signings'. Just purely as I think Pardew prefers players with Premiership experience whilst Carr seems to always be scouting in Europe.

 

I think what either want is irrelevent, Pardew and Carr can identify who they like, its about how Fatty and Dekka see a deal, if they think its value for money then it gets the go ahead, if not nothing happens.

is that not as it should be ?

 

Well sometimes they should have a bit of faith in the manager/scouting team.  Surely Fat Mike isn't the best judge of footballing ability/potential.

 

So, no, its probably not how it should be but it is how it most likely is.

and the manager/scouting team will have to think it's value for money. i'm pretty sure ashley/lambias wouldn't have heard of most of our signings and wouldn't have been personally to watch them but they, as you say, had faith in their manager/scouting team.

 

You responded to bimpy who said it will be up to Ashley and Llmabias to decide whether a player is value for money and said 'is that not how it should be', so I'm not sure what your response to my comment is, there'll probably be loads of examples where they've dismissed Pardew's and Carr's advice.  Since Colo what's our record signing? 5 or 6m?  I'm sure the incumbent manager/scouting have recommended players costing more than that.

and that always happens at every club (bar citeh) ,the manager will not get every player he wants.

 

I can see other owners being slightly more flexible though.

only within what they consider to be their financial constraints (and thats a whole other debate) or do you think ashley/lambias had a good look at tiote,cabaye,obertan,santon,jonas ?

 

I doubt they scouted them no.  Put it this way though, I'm sure if we were asked to pay much more for Tiote they would've said no, regardless of advice of the scouting team, even though he would still be worth it.  That's an example of where stubbornness can be harmful.  All conjecture of course but I wouldn't be surprised.

[madras]

Obertan is s*** so Pardew signed him whilst the messiah Carr had nothing to do with it.

 

In fact, just as Obertan was about to sign the contract, Carr burst in to try to stop it but Pardew threatened that he'd do his wife if he prevented the deal.

 

Get a grip. It was said at the time of the deal that Carr had been scouting him for years.

 

 

Gets on my tits this Pardew=bad, Carr=good thing. They sign players as a team, they've always maintained this.

 

I'm guessing Obertan and Ba were Pardew's signings and Santon, Cabaye, Marveaux (does any one else forget we have him by the way?) were Carr 'signings'. Just purely as I think Pardew prefers players with Premiership experience whilst Carr seems to always be scouting in Europe.

 

I think what either want is irrelevent, Pardew and Carr can identify who they like, its about how Fatty and Dekka see a deal, if they think its value for money then it gets the go ahead, if not nothing happens.

is that not as it should be ?

 

Well sometimes they should have a bit of faith in the manager/scouting team.  Surely Fat Mike isn't the best judge of footballing ability/potential.

 

So, no, its probably not how it should be but it is how it most likely is.

and the manager/scouting team will have to think it's value for money. i'm pretty sure ashley/lambias wouldn't have heard of most of our signings and wouldn't have been personally to watch them but they, as you say, had faith in their manager/scouting team.

 

You responded to bimpy who said it will be up to Ashley and Llmabias to decide whether a player is value for money and said 'is that not how it should be', so I'm not sure what your response to my comment is, there'll probably be loads of examples where they've dismissed Pardew's and Carr's advice.  Since Colo what's our record signing? 5 or 6m?  I'm sure the incumbent manager/scouting have recommended players costing more than that.

and that always happens at every club (bar citeh) ,the manager will not get every player he wants.

 

I can see other owners being slightly more flexible though.

only within what they consider to be their financial constraints (and thats a whole other debate) or do you think ashley/lambias had a good look at tiote,cabaye,obertan,santon,jonas ?

 

I doubt they scouted them no.  Put it this way though, I'm sure if we were asked to pay much more for Tiote they would've said no, regardless of advice of the scouting team, even though he would still be worth it.  That's an example of where stubbornness can be harmful.  All conjecture of course but I wouldn't be surprised.

using tiote as the example, he's only worth it if he produces when he gets here, it's not like he was playing so well in the netherlands that we all knew he'd be an instant hit. we paid what they wanted.

[Guest bimpy474]

True, Frazzle put it so well i'll just add, sometimes a manager or scout can be taken at their word,  pay a little more on their say so and take a little chance, your not talking £10m more but if a player is valued at £5m but the other club wants £6.5m, thats the kind of thing that bugs like.

 

a) Where does the extra £1.5m come from?

b) If we're seen to be happy to pay a bit extra to get a deal over the line, how does that reflect on future transfers - why don't all selling clubs whack an extra £1.5m on any player we go for? Why stop at £1.5m?

c) Where does the extra £1.5m from all of these transfers (3 or 4 per season?) come from? Does it all add up to an extra player or freezing the wage budget?

d) Agents often use the transfer fee of their player to justify asking for higher wages, if we're happy to pay an extra £1.5m to get a deal over the line with the opposition club, why not pay the player an extra £150k signing bonus and an extra £10k pw...afterall, it's to get the deal over the line, non?

 

Well the obvious is, if you pay a little extra you have a better team and finish in a higher place meaning more prize money, paying for the extra outlay,  i guess its also an ambition thing, i dont actually see too much wrong in signing value for money players, but as we can see now, we are desperate for a couple of players but Ashley wont sign anyone if it means going that little extra.

 

We pay no extra and end up 14th, pay a little extra and stay 7th, the prize money is what £800,000 a place in the prem ?, that covers your extra outlay, wages wise, we have enough players not good enough, Perch, Smith, Lovenkrands etc, Smith and Loven gone at the end of season, pays the wages of the new player, even 2 with Smiths, 7th place prize money also pays the wages of 1 or 2 new players for the six months there here alongside Smith and Loven.

 

If Ashley didn't speak to Pardew for 2 months because we lost 3 places in the prem drawing with W.B.A at the end of last season, you can be sure the prize money isn't coppers.

[Frazzle]

Obertan is s*** so Pardew signed him whilst the messiah Carr had nothing to do with it.

 

In fact, just as Obertan was about to sign the contract, Carr burst in to try to stop it but Pardew threatened that he'd do his wife if he prevented the deal.

 

Get a grip. It was said at the time of the deal that Carr had been scouting him for years.

 

 

Gets on my tits this Pardew=bad, Carr=good thing. They sign players as a team, they've always maintained this.

 

I'm guessing Obertan and Ba were Pardew's signings and Santon, Cabaye, Marveaux (does any one else forget we have him by the way?) were Carr 'signings'. Just purely as I think Pardew prefers players with Premiership experience whilst Carr seems to always be scouting in Europe.

 

I think what either want is irrelevent, Pardew and Carr can identify who they like, its about how Fatty and Dekka see a deal, if they think its value for money then it gets the go ahead, if not nothing happens.

is that not as it should be ?

 

Well sometimes they should have a bit of faith in the manager/scouting team.  Surely Fat Mike isn't the best judge of footballing ability/potential.

 

So, no, its probably not how it should be but it is how it most likely is.

and the manager/scouting team will have to think it's value for money. i'm pretty sure ashley/lambias wouldn't have heard of most of our signings and wouldn't have been personally to watch them but they, as you say, had faith in their manager/scouting team.

 

You responded to bimpy who said it will be up to Ashley and Llmabias to decide whether a player is value for money and said 'is that not how it should be', so I'm not sure what your response to my comment is, there'll probably be loads of examples where they've dismissed Pardew's and Carr's advice.  Since Colo what's our record signing? 5 or 6m?  I'm sure the incumbent manager/scouting have recommended players costing more than that.

and that always happens at every club (bar citeh) ,the manager will not get every player he wants.

 

I can see other owners being slightly more flexible though.

only within what they consider to be their financial constraints (and thats a whole other debate) or do you think ashley/lambias had a good look at tiote,cabaye,obertan,santon,jonas ?

 

I doubt they scouted them no.  Put it this way though, I'm sure if we were asked to pay much more for Tiote they would've said no, regardless of advice of the scouting team, even though he would still be worth it.  That's an example of where stubbornness can be harmful.  All conjecture of course but I wouldn't be surprised.

using tiote as the example, he's only worth it if he produces when he gets here, it's not like he was playing so well in the netherlands that we all knew he'd be an instant hit. we paid what they wanted.

 

What's that got to do with the hypothetical situation I proposed though?  We're obviously looking back in hindsight and know that Tiote would still be worth it if he cost double that or more, even though its likely that Ashley would've pulled the plug.

[madras]

Obertan is s*** so Pardew signed him whilst the messiah Carr had nothing to do with it.

 

In fact, just as Obertan was about to sign the contract, Carr burst in to try to stop it but Pardew threatened that he'd do his wife if he prevented the deal.

 

Get a grip. It was said at the time of the deal that Carr had been scouting him for years.

 

 

Gets on my tits this Pardew=bad, Carr=good thing. They sign players as a team, they've always maintained this.

 

I'm guessing Obertan and Ba were Pardew's signings and Santon, Cabaye, Marveaux (does any one else forget we have him by the way?) were Carr 'signings'. Just purely as I think Pardew prefers players with Premiership experience whilst Carr seems to always be scouting in Europe.

 

I think what either want is irrelevent, Pardew and Carr can identify who they like, its about how Fatty and Dekka see a deal, if they think its value for money then it gets the go ahead, if not nothing happens.

is that not as it should be ?

 

Well sometimes they should have a bit of faith in the manager/scouting team.  Surely Fat Mike isn't the best judge of footballing ability/potential.

 

So, no, its probably not how it should be but it is how it most likely is.

and the manager/scouting team will have to think it's value for money. i'm pretty sure ashley/lambias wouldn't have heard of most of our signings and wouldn't have been personally to watch them but they, as you say, had faith in their manager/scouting team.

 

You responded to bimpy who said it will be up to Ashley and Llmabias to decide whether a player is value for money and said 'is that not how it should be', so I'm not sure what your response to my comment is, there'll probably be loads of examples where they've dismissed Pardew's and Carr's advice.  Since Colo what's our record signing? 5 or 6m?  I'm sure the incumbent manager/scouting have recommended players costing more than that.

and that always happens at every club (bar citeh) ,the manager will not get every player he wants.

 

I can see other owners being slightly more flexible though.

only within what they consider to be their financial constraints (and thats a whole other debate) or do you think ashley/lambias had a good look at tiote,cabaye,obertan,santon,jonas ?

 

I doubt they scouted them no.  Put it this way though, I'm sure if we were asked to pay much more for Tiote they would've said no, regardless of advice of the scouting team, even though he would still be worth it.  That's an example of where stubbornness can be harmful.  All conjecture of course but I wouldn't be surprised.

using tiote as the example, he's only worth it if he produces when he gets here, it's not like he was playing so well in the netherlands that we all knew he'd be an instant hit. we paid what they wanted.

 

What's that got to do with the hypothetical situation I proposed though?  We're obviously looking back in hindsight and know that Tiote would still be worth it if he cost double that or more, even though its likely that Ashley would've pulled the plug.

as you said thats conjecture, why would any owner of a football club pay up more than the opposition wanted ?

 

i notice it's went from conjecture to "likely"

[Frazzle]

True, Frazzle put it so well i'll just add, sometimes a manager or scout can be taken at their word,  pay a little more on their say so and take a little chance, your not talking £10m more but if a player is valued at £5m but the other club wants £6.5m, thats the kind of thing that bugs like.

 

a) Where does the extra £1.5m come from?

b) If we're seen to be happy to pay a bit extra to get a deal over the line, how does that reflect on future transfers - why don't all selling clubs whack an extra £1.5m on any player we go for? Why stop at £1.5m?

c) Where does the extra £1.5m from all of these transfers (3 or 4 per season?) come from? Does it all add up to an extra player or freezing the wage budget?

d) Agents often use the transfer fee of their player to justify asking for higher wages, if we're happy to pay an extra £1.5m to get a deal over the line with the opposition club, why not pay the player an extra £150k signing bonus and an extra £10k pw...afterall, it's to get the deal over the line, non?

 

 

a) it was hypothetical

b) using Tiote as an example, we might have paid £1.5m more than our original offer, you should bid up to what you believe the players value is (obviously taking into account the budget), obviously pay as little as possible but with Tiote we could've paid up to £10m and he would've been worth it

c) the £1.5m was hypothetical and as I said in b) we may already have paid 'another £1.5m'

d) true, but see b) and c) again

 

It's not like every player we've bought under Ashley has been bought at an objective, perfect value as this doesn't exist.

 

Edit- I didn't actually read bimpy's post properly but my general points still stand

[Frazzle]

Obertan is s*** so Pardew signed him whilst the messiah Carr had nothing to do with it.

 

In fact, just as Obertan was about to sign the contract, Carr burst in to try to stop it but Pardew threatened that he'd do his wife if he prevented the deal.

 

Get a grip. It was said at the time of the deal that Carr had been scouting him for years.

 

 

Gets on my tits this Pardew=bad, Carr=good thing. They sign players as a team, they've always maintained this.

 

I'm guessing Obertan and Ba were Pardew's signings and Santon, Cabaye, Marveaux (does any one else forget we have him by the way?) were Carr 'signings'. Just purely as I think Pardew prefers players with Premiership experience whilst Carr seems to always be scouting in Europe.

 

I think what either want is irrelevent, Pardew and Carr can identify who they like, its about how Fatty and Dekka see a deal, if they think its value for money then it gets the go ahead, if not nothing happens.

is that not as it should be ?

 

Well sometimes they should have a bit of faith in the manager/scouting team.  Surely Fat Mike isn't the best judge of footballing ability/potential.

 

So, no, its probably not how it should be but it is how it most likely is.

and the manager/scouting team will have to think it's value for money. i'm pretty sure ashley/lambias wouldn't have heard of most of our signings and wouldn't have been personally to watch them but they, as you say, had faith in their manager/scouting team.

 

You responded to bimpy who said it will be up to Ashley and Llmabias to decide whether a player is value for money and said 'is that not how it should be', so I'm not sure what your response to my comment is, there'll probably be loads of examples where they've dismissed Pardew's and Carr's advice.  Since Colo what's our record signing? 5 or 6m?  I'm sure the incumbent manager/scouting have recommended players costing more than that.

and that always happens at every club (bar citeh) ,the manager will not get every player he wants.

 

I can see other owners being slightly more flexible though.

only within what they consider to be their financial constraints (and thats a whole other debate) or do you think ashley/lambias had a good look at tiote,cabaye,obertan,santon,jonas ?

 

I doubt they scouted them no.  Put it this way though, I'm sure if we were asked to pay much more for Tiote they would've said no, regardless of advice of the scouting team, even though he would still be worth it.  That's an example of where stubbornness can be harmful.  All conjecture of course but I wouldn't be surprised.

using tiote as the example, he's only worth it if he produces when he gets here, it's not like he was playing so well in the netherlands that we all knew he'd be an instant hit. we paid what they wanted.

 

What's that got to do with the hypothetical situation I proposed though?  We're obviously looking back in hindsight and know that Tiote would still be worth it if he cost double that or more, even though its likely that Ashley would've pulled the plug.

as you said thats conjecture, why would any owner of a football club pay up more than the opposition wanted ?

 

i notice it's went from conjecture to "likely"

 

Me saying its conjecture but that I think its likely isn't contradictory and we wouldn't pay more than they wanted, where have I said that.  I was using the Tiote situation and creating a hypothetical situation, of course I wouldn't want us to pay over 3.5m if that's what they asked.

[madras]

Obertan is s*** so Pardew signed him whilst the messiah Carr had nothing to do with it.

 

In fact, just as Obertan was about to sign the contract, Carr burst in to try to stop it but Pardew threatened that he'd do his wife if he prevented the deal.

 

Get a grip. It was said at the time of the deal that Carr had been scouting him for years.

 

 

Gets on my tits this Pardew=bad, Carr=good thing. They sign players as a team, they've always maintained this.

 

I'm guessing Obertan and Ba were Pardew's signings and Santon, Cabaye, Marveaux (does any one else forget we have him by the way?) were Carr 'signings'. Just purely as I think Pardew prefers players with Premiership experience whilst Carr seems to always be scouting in Europe.

 

I think what either want is irrelevent, Pardew and Carr can identify who they like, its about how Fatty and Dekka see a deal, if they think its value for money then it gets the go ahead, if not nothing happens.

is that not as it should be ?

 

Well sometimes they should have a bit of faith in the manager/scouting team.  Surely Fat Mike isn't the best judge of footballing ability/potential.

 

So, no, its probably not how it should be but it is how it most likely is.

and the manager/scouting team will have to think it's value for money. i'm pretty sure ashley/lambias wouldn't have heard of most of our signings and wouldn't have been personally to watch them but they, as you say, had faith in their manager/scouting team.

 

You responded to bimpy who said it will be up to Ashley and Llmabias to decide whether a player is value for money and said 'is that not how it should be', so I'm not sure what your response to my comment is, there'll probably be loads of examples where they've dismissed Pardew's and Carr's advice.  Since Colo what's our record signing? 5 or 6m?  I'm sure the incumbent manager/scouting have recommended players costing more than that.

and that always happens at every club (bar citeh) ,the manager will not get every player he wants.

 

I can see other owners being slightly more flexible though.

only within what they consider to be their financial constraints (and thats a whole other debate) or do you think ashley/lambias had a good look at tiote,cabaye,obertan,santon,jonas ?

 

I doubt they scouted them no.  Put it this way though, I'm sure if we were asked to pay much more for Tiote they would've said no, regardless of advice of the scouting team, even though he would still be worth it.  That's an example of where stubbornness can be harmful.  All conjecture of course but I wouldn't be surprised.

using tiote as the example, he's only worth it if he produces when he gets here, it's not like he was playing so well in the netherlands that we all knew he'd be an instant hit. we paid what they wanted.

 

What's that got to do with the hypothetical situation I proposed though?  We're obviously looking back in hindsight and know that Tiote would still be worth it if he cost double that or more, even though its likely that Ashley would've pulled the plug.

as you said thats conjecture, why would any owner of a football club pay up more than the opposition wanted ?

 

i notice it's went from conjecture to "likely"

 

Me saying its conjecture but that I think its likely isn't contradictory and we wouldn't pay more than they wanted, where have I said that.  I was using the Tiote situation and creating a hypothetical situation, of course I wouldn't want us to pay over 3.5m if that's what they asked.

it happens all the time doesn't it, club a and club b being unable to agree on a price, tiote was actually a very bad example for you to use.

[Frazzle]

Obertan is s*** so Pardew signed him whilst the messiah Carr had nothing to do with it.

 

In fact, just as Obertan was about to sign the contract, Carr burst in to try to stop it but Pardew threatened that he'd do his wife if he prevented the deal.

 

Get a grip. It was said at the time of the deal that Carr had been scouting him for years.

 

 

Gets on my tits this Pardew=bad, Carr=good thing. They sign players as a team, they've always maintained this.

 

I'm guessing Obertan and Ba were Pardew's signings and Santon, Cabaye, Marveaux (does any one else forget we have him by the way?) were Carr 'signings'. Just purely as I think Pardew prefers players with Premiership experience whilst Carr seems to always be scouting in Europe.

 

I think what either want is irrelevent, Pardew and Carr can identify who they like, its about how Fatty and Dekka see a deal, if they think its value for money then it gets the go ahead, if not nothing happens.

is that not as it should be ?

 

Well sometimes they should have a bit of faith in the manager/scouting team.  Surely Fat Mike isn't the best judge of footballing ability/potential.

 

So, no, its probably not how it should be but it is how it most likely is.

and the manager/scouting team will have to think it's value for money. i'm pretty sure ashley/lambias wouldn't have heard of most of our signings and wouldn't have been personally to watch them but they, as you say, had faith in their manager/scouting team.

 

You responded to bimpy who said it will be up to Ashley and Llmabias to decide whether a player is value for money and said 'is that not how it should be', so I'm not sure what your response to my comment is, there'll probably be loads of examples where they've dismissed Pardew's and Carr's advice.  Since Colo what's our record signing? 5 or 6m?  I'm sure the incumbent manager/scouting have recommended players costing more than that.

and that always happens at every club (bar citeh) ,the manager will not get every player he wants.

 

I can see other owners being slightly more flexible though.

only within what they consider to be their financial constraints (and thats a whole other debate) or do you think ashley/lambias had a good look at tiote,cabaye,obertan,santon,jonas ?

 

I doubt they scouted them no.  Put it this way though, I'm sure if we were asked to pay much more for Tiote they would've said no, regardless of advice of the scouting team, even though he would still be worth it.  That's an example of where stubbornness can be harmful.  All conjecture of course but I wouldn't be surprised.

using tiote as the example, he's only worth it if he produces when he gets here, it's not like he was playing so well in the netherlands that we all knew he'd be an instant hit. we paid what they wanted.

 

What's that got to do with the hypothetical situation I proposed though?  We're obviously looking back in hindsight and know that Tiote would still be worth it if he cost double that or more, even though its likely that Ashley would've pulled the plug.

as you said thats conjecture, why would any owner of a football club pay up more than the opposition wanted ?

 

i notice it's went from conjecture to "likely"

 

Me saying its conjecture but that I think its likely isn't contradictory and we wouldn't pay more than they wanted, where have I said that.  I was using the Tiote situation and creating a hypothetical situation, of course I wouldn't want us to pay over 3.5m if that's what they asked.

it happens all the time doesn't it, club a and club b being unable to agree on a price, tiote was actually a very bad example for you to use.

 

Tiote was the example I used because we can use hindsight and realise he was worth much more than 3.5m, the rest was just hypothetical to illustrate a point.

[madras]

Obertan is s*** so Pardew signed him whilst the messiah Carr had nothing to do with it.

 

In fact, just as Obertan was about to sign the contract, Carr burst in to try to stop it but Pardew threatened that he'd do his wife if he prevented the deal.

 

Get a grip. It was said at the time of the deal that Carr had been scouting him for years.

 

 

Gets on my tits this Pardew=bad, Carr=good thing. They sign players as a team, they've always maintained this.

 

I'm guessing Obertan and Ba were Pardew's signings and Santon, Cabaye, Marveaux (does any one else forget we have him by the way?) were Carr 'signings'. Just purely as I think Pardew prefers players with Premiership experience whilst Carr seems to always be scouting in Europe.

 

I think what either want is irrelevent, Pardew and Carr can identify who they like, its about how Fatty and Dekka see a deal, if they think its value for money then it gets the go ahead, if not nothing happens.

is that not as it should be ?

 

Well sometimes they should have a bit of faith in the manager/scouting team.  Surely Fat Mike isn't the best judge of footballing ability/potential.

 

So, no, its probably not how it should be but it is how it most likely is.

and the manager/scouting team will have to think it's value for money. i'm pretty sure ashley/lambias wouldn't have heard of most of our signings and wouldn't have been personally to watch them but they, as you say, had faith in their manager/scouting team.

 

You responded to bimpy who said it will be up to Ashley and Llmabias to decide whether a player is value for money and said 'is that not how it should be', so I'm not sure what your response to my comment is, there'll probably be loads of examples where they've dismissed Pardew's and Carr's advice.  Since Colo what's our record signing? 5 or 6m?  I'm sure the incumbent manager/scouting have recommended players costing more than that.

and that always happens at every club (bar citeh) ,the manager will not get every player he wants.

 

I can see other owners being slightly more flexible though.

only within what they consider to be their financial constraints (and thats a whole other debate) or do you think ashley/lambias had a good look at tiote,cabaye,obertan,santon,jonas ?

 

I doubt they scouted them no.  Put it this way though, I'm sure if we were asked to pay much more for Tiote they would've said no, regardless of advice of the scouting team, even though he would still be worth it.  That's an example of where stubbornness can be harmful.  All conjecture of course but I wouldn't be surprised.

using tiote as the example, he's only worth it if he produces when he gets here, it's not like he was playing so well in the netherlands that we all knew he'd be an instant hit. we paid what they wanted.

 

What's that got to do with the hypothetical situation I proposed though?  We're obviously looking back in hindsight and know that Tiote would still be worth it if he cost double that or more, even though its likely that Ashley would've pulled the plug.

as you said thats conjecture, why would any owner of a football club pay up more than the opposition wanted ?

 

i notice it's went from conjecture to "likely"

 

Me saying its conjecture but that I think its likely isn't contradictory and we wouldn't pay more than they wanted, where have I said that.  I was using the Tiote situation and creating a hypothetical situation, of course I wouldn't want us to pay over 3.5m if that's what they asked.

it happens all the time doesn't it, club a and club b being unable to agree on a price, tiote was actually a very bad example for you to use.

 

Tiote was the example I used because we can use hindsight and realise he was worth much more than 3.5m, the rest was just hypothetical to illustrate a point.

his team at the time didn't seem to think so. it was a bad example because we actually agreed a deal at what his club thought he was worth and we have no idea if we'd have paid an extra million or not.

[Frazzle]

Obertan is s*** so Pardew signed him whilst the messiah Carr had nothing to do with it.

 

In fact, just as Obertan was about to sign the contract, Carr burst in to try to stop it but Pardew threatened that he'd do his wife if he prevented the deal.

 

Get a grip. It was said at the time of the deal that Carr had been scouting him for years.

 

 

Gets on my tits this Pardew=bad, Carr=good thing. They sign players as a team, they've always maintained this.

 

I'm guessing Obertan and Ba were Pardew's signings and Santon, Cabaye, Marveaux (does any one else forget we have him by the way?) were Carr 'signings'. Just purely as I think Pardew prefers players with Premiership experience whilst Carr seems to always be scouting in Europe.

 

I think what either want is irrelevent, Pardew and Carr can identify who they like, its about how Fatty and Dekka see a deal, if they think its value for money then it gets the go ahead, if not nothing happens.

is that not as it should be ?

 

Well sometimes they should have a bit of faith in the manager/scouting team.  Surely Fat Mike isn't the best judge of footballing ability/potential.

 

So, no, its probably not how it should be but it is how it most likely is.

and the manager/scouting team will have to think it's value for money. i'm pretty sure ashley/lambias wouldn't have heard of most of our signings and wouldn't have been personally to watch them but they, as you say, had faith in their manager/scouting team.

 

You responded to bimpy who said it will be up to Ashley and Llmabias to decide whether a player is value for money and said 'is that not how it should be', so I'm not sure what your response to my comment is, there'll probably be loads of examples where they've dismissed Pardew's and Carr's advice.  Since Colo what's our record signing? 5 or 6m?  I'm sure the incumbent manager/scouting have recommended players costing more than that.

and that always happens at every club (bar citeh) ,the manager will not get every player he wants.

 

I can see other owners being slightly more flexible though.

only within what they consider to be their financial constraints (and thats a whole other debate) or do you think ashley/lambias had a good look at tiote,cabaye,obertan,santon,jonas ?

 

I doubt they scouted them no.  Put it this way though, I'm sure if we were asked to pay much more for Tiote they would've said no, regardless of advice of the scouting team, even though he would still be worth it.  That's an example of where stubbornness can be harmful.  All conjecture of course but I wouldn't be surprised.

using tiote as the example, he's only worth it if he produces when he gets here, it's not like he was playing so well in the netherlands that we all knew he'd be an instant hit. we paid what they wanted.

 

What's that got to do with the hypothetical situation I proposed though?  We're obviously looking back in hindsight and know that Tiote would still be worth it if he cost double that or more, even though its likely that Ashley would've pulled the plug.

as you said thats conjecture, why would any owner of a football club pay up more than the opposition wanted ?

 

i notice it's went from conjecture to "likely"

 

Me saying its conjecture but that I think its likely isn't contradictory and we wouldn't pay more than they wanted, where have I said that.  I was using the Tiote situation and creating a hypothetical situation, of course I wouldn't want us to pay over 3.5m if that's what they asked.

it happens all the time doesn't it, club a and club b being unable to agree on a price, tiote was actually a very bad example for you to use.

 

Tiote was the example I used because we can use hindsight and realise he was worth much more than 3.5m, the rest was just hypothetical to illustrate a point.

his team at the time didn't seem to think so. it was a bad example because we actually agreed a deal at what his club thought he was worth and we have no idea if we'd have paid an extra million or not.

 

In a parallel universe though, where they asked for another million, would Ashley have sanctioned it?  If Carr said he was worth double that would Ashley have paid any more?  That's just the general point I was getting that.

 

The point is better illustrated with youngsters to be honest where you don't always pay for current ability but for potential as well.

[Guest bimpy474]

Obertan is s*** so Pardew signed him whilst the messiah Carr had nothing to do with it.

 

In fact, just as Obertan was about to sign the contract, Carr burst in to try to stop it but Pardew threatened that he'd do his wife if he prevented the deal.

 

Get a grip. It was said at the time of the deal that Carr had been scouting him for years.

 

 

Gets on my tits this Pardew=bad, Carr=good thing. They sign players as a team, they've always maintained this.

 

I'm guessing Obertan and Ba were Pardew's signings and Santon, Cabaye, Marveaux (does any one else forget we have him by the way?) were Carr 'signings'. Just purely as I think Pardew prefers players with Premiership experience whilst Carr seems to always be scouting in Europe.

 

I think what either want is irrelevent, Pardew and Carr can identify who they like, its about how Fatty and Dekka see a deal, if they think its value for money then it gets the go ahead, if not nothing happens.

is that not as it should be ?

 

Well sometimes they should have a bit of faith in the manager/scouting team.  Surely Fat Mike isn't the best judge of footballing ability/potential.

 

So, no, its probably not how it should be but it is how it most likely is.

and the manager/scouting team will have to think it's value for money. i'm pretty sure ashley/lambias wouldn't have heard of most of our signings and wouldn't have been personally to watch them but they, as you say, had faith in their manager/scouting team.

 

You responded to bimpy who said it will be up to Ashley and Llmabias to decide whether a player is value for money and said 'is that not how it should be', so I'm not sure what your response to my comment is, there'll probably be loads of examples where they've dismissed Pardew's and Carr's advice.  Since Colo what's our record signing? 5 or 6m?  I'm sure the incumbent manager/scouting have recommended players costing more than that.

and that always happens at every club (bar citeh) ,the manager will not get every player he wants.

 

I can see other owners being slightly more flexible though.

only within what they consider to be their financial constraints (and thats a whole other debate) or do you think ashley/lambias had a good look at tiote,cabaye,obertan,santon,jonas ?

 

I doubt they scouted them no.  Put it this way though, I'm sure if we were asked to pay much more for Tiote they would've said no, regardless of advice of the scouting team, even though he would still be worth it.  That's an example of where stubbornness can be harmful.  All conjecture of course but I wouldn't be surprised.

using tiote as the example, he's only worth it if he produces when he gets here, it's not like he was playing so well in the netherlands that we all knew he'd be an instant hit. we paid what they wanted.

 

What's that got to do with the hypothetical situation I proposed though?  We're obviously looking back in hindsight and know that Tiote would still be worth it if he cost double that or more, even though its likely that Ashley would've pulled the plug.

as you said thats conjecture, why would any owner of a football club pay up more than the opposition wanted ?

 

i notice it's went from conjecture to "likely"

 

Me saying its conjecture but that I think its likely isn't contradictory and we wouldn't pay more than they wanted, where have I said that.  I was using the Tiote situation and creating a hypothetical situation, of course I wouldn't want us to pay over 3.5m if that's what they asked.

it happens all the time doesn't it, club a and club b being unable to agree on a price, tiote was actually a very bad example for you to use.

 

Tiote was the example I used because we can use hindsight and realise he was worth much more than 3.5m, the rest was just hypothetical to illustrate a point.

his team at the time didn't seem to think so. it was a bad example because we actually agreed a deal at what his club thought he was worth and we have no idea if we'd have paid an extra million or not.

 

I think you know what he means, your arguing a daft point of which transfer to use as a example, i understand what Frazzle is saying and dont see the need to pull apart how he's trying to get it across.

 

Ashley offers a price and thats it, no room movement and we could lose a good player the sake of a £1m, i think even if Pardew said this player is worth the money, it wouldn't matter as Ashley will only pay what he thinks or is advised to by Dekka it looks like.

[Fenham Mag]

My word, if he doesn't start on Wednesday with Obertan out.

 

Sammy, Haris, Leon all in front of him.

[Guest Heneage]

Interview in La Parisian with him tomorrow.

[Guest BlacknWhiteArmy]

[Sifu]

Should be fine....

[JH]

SunSteveBrenner I met Hatem Ben Arfa yesterday.He's frustrated at not playing but wants to stay at #nufc.He also has shiny trainers.Will be on website soon

[Jagten]

First sign of dissent - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4036706/Hatem-Ben-Arfa-furious-about-bit-part-role-at-Newcastle.html

 

"I'm a competitor and I want to play every game, every minute. The manager knows what I'm thinking. He knows I want to play. He makes his choices and I have to respect them.

 

"But it's true we don't share quite the same philosophy. For him, it's more crosses, a bit of a more direct style, whereas I'm more the kind of player who likes to play short passes.

[TaylorJ_01]

First sign of dissent - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4036706/Hatem-Ben-Arfa-furious-about-bit-part-role-at-Newcastle.html

 

"I'm a competitor and I want to play every game, every minute. The manager knows what I'm thinking. He knows I want to play. He makes his choices and I have to respect them.

 

"But it's true we don't share quite the same philosophy. For him, it's more crosses, a bit of a more direct style, whereas I'm more the kind of player who likes to play short passes.

 

Hatem knows best, I say. We are more than capable of playing a passing game with the core of Colo, Cabaye and Ben Arfa.

[Hanshithispantz]

Hatem for manager

[JH]

"I'm a very sensitive guy but I can be impulsive as well. Don't p*** me off, because I can lose my temper very quickly."

 

[Jagten]

Time for pardew to earn his money.