Hatem Ben Arfa

[Flip]

 

Ronaldo is right, some of you spout some absolute bullshit at times.

 

The posting judge has spoken, close the forum.

 

He is right though, call me what you want, but hes absolute right. Most of Bas goals have come from playing a more withdrawn role, behind Best. Anyone arguing it that either is delusional or believes he could score twice as many goals from his supposedly better more advanced role.

[NG32]

Ronaldo is right, some of you spout some absolute bullshit at times.

 

Aye, I forgot that Ronaldo talks sense all the time. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

Ronaldo is right, some of you spout some absolute bullshit at times.

 

The posting judge has spoken, close the forum.

 

He is right though, call me what you want, but hes absolute right. Most of Bas goals have come from playing a more withdrawn role, behind Best. Anyone arguing it that either is delusional or believes he could score twice as many goals from his supposedly better more advanced role.

 

I agree with the point, I just don't like your stupid post.

[Flip]

 

Ronaldo is right, some of you spout some absolute bullshit at times.

 

The posting judge has spoken, close the forum.

 

He is right though, call me what you want, but hes absolute right. Most of Bas goals have come from playing a more withdrawn role, behind Best. Anyone arguing it that either is delusional or believes he could score twice as many goals from his supposedly better more advanced role.

 

I agree with the point, I just don't like your stupid post.

 

Aye, I understand. I mean I feel the same about most of your posts.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

Ronaldo is right, some of you spout some absolute bullshit at times.

 

The posting judge has spoken, close the forum.

 

He is right though, call me what you want, but hes absolute right. Most of Bas goals have come from playing a more withdrawn role, behind Best. Anyone arguing it that either is delusional or believes he could score twice as many goals from his supposedly better more advanced role.

 

I agree with the point, I just don't like your stupid post.

 

Aye, I understand. I mean I feel the same about most of your posts.

 

Wahey!

[Flip]

[Yorkie]

If our full backs could be relied on, this would be interesting to see:

Tiote

Cabaye    Gutierrez

Ben Arfa

Ba    Cisse

 

Not going to happen though.

 

Yeah, that's a great option, Jonas isn't really a winger anyway.

 

Woud love to see us get another fullback who's good all over the pitch and try it.

 

My immediate reaction to that is still to disagree... but i am coming round to a different way of thinking with him. He's looked effective in the roaming role and actually quite intelligent, which isn't really something i would have attributed to him before.

 

Before this season i'd have said (and had said) that he would never be a fit for the centre. His gangly, unorthodox dribbling style would easily be countered because he often needs a couple square yards to out-do a defender. He wouldn't get that space in the middle. But he adapted his game against QPR and Fulham, and i really think there's a future for him there.

[Shak]

Ba is well able to play as a second striker and he and Cisse would be more than fine as a partnership if we were being set up a bit better.

 

Most of their games together we've played with two holding midfielders and Ryan Taylor on the right wing. They're far too isolated and as a result struggle to achieve much.

 

Playing Ben Arfa on the right will help a lot, but the real issue is that Pardew needs to rediscover his balls and stop having the CB's and CM's playing so fucking deep. We've been doing that since Fulham raped us in the second half and it's a major reason for why we're seeing so much hoofball, the manager is too terrified of getting exposed at the back to allow the midfielders to push on.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

If our full backs could be relied on, this would be interesting to see:

Tiote

Cabaye    Gutierrez

Ben Arfa

Ba    Cisse

 

Not going to happen though.

 

Yeah, that's a great option, Jonas isn't really a winger anyway.

 

Woud love to see us get another fullback who's good all over the pitch and try it.

 

My immediate reaction to that is still to disagree... but i am coming round to a different way of thinking with him. He's looked effective in the roaming role and actually quite intelligent, which isn't really something i would have attributed to him before.

 

Before this season i'd have said (and had said) that he would never be a fit for the centre. His gangly, unorthodox dribbling style would easily be countered because he often needs a couple square yards to out-do a defender. He wouldn't get that space in the middle. But he adapted his game against QPR and Fulham, and i really think there's a future for him there.

 

Same really, I'm just starting to think that his lack of attacking threat on the wing might be permanent and he has lost that explosiveness and threat he used to have. I don't know, maybe if he wasn't expected to play every single minute and work his arse off he might offer more going forward. But if not we need to start looking at how to use him in other ways.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Ronaldo's right imo. I didn't see it at first, but he is much more astute when he has the ball and space in front of him. He was a passenger against Arsenal when asked to be the main target man, though a lot of this was due to Obertan being the one playing off him.  The couple of occasions where he had the ball and space to run in to from a little deeper he looked our only threat, shame he was always up against 2 or 3 players though.

 

I think his partnership with Cisse needs to be a fluid one, not defining either with a specific role. Maybe I'm saying this as I don't know yet what his (Cisse) best role is, especially in the PL environment. He too looks to be a runner, though. I don't think tying either of them down to 'target man' would be a great idea. As long as we have the creativity in front of them, we don't need to rely on a 'target man'.

[Flip]

Ronaldo's right imo. I didn't see it at first, but he is much more astute when he has the ball and space in front of him. He was a passenger against Arsenal when asked to be the main target man, though a lot of this was due to Obertan being the one playing off him.  The couple of occasions where he had the ball and space to run in to from a little deeper he looked our only threat, shame he was always up against 2 or 3 players though.

 

I think his partnership with Cisse needs to be a fluid one, not defining either with a specific role. Maybe I'm saying this as I don't know yet what his (Cisse) best role is, especially in the PL environment. He too looks to be a runner, though. I don't think tying either of them down to 'target man' would be a great idea. As long as we have the creativity in front of them, we don't need to rely on a 'target man'.

 

 

Ba and Cisse would be class, if we passed the ball around. Hoofing will only make them look incompetent. Easy as that really.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

They can fulfil pretty much any attacking role except target man, that's the snag.

[Shak]

Can just imagine Pardew meeting Cisse for the first time and his heart sinking when he saw how short he was.

[Mole_Toonfan]

We dont need a target man if we actually pass the ball around will being heavily influenced on wing play. There's no reason we cant do this other than Pardew's cowardice.

 

Kind of like this.....

 

http://this11.com/boards/abChz36ag8.jpg

 

It's more of an idea for next season, but it could still work IMO with Jonas in midfield, Santon at LB, Simpson at RB and Williamson at CB.

[Shak]

Should do my FM formation.

 

                              Krul

 

Santon        Taylor          Colo          New LB

 

                              Tiote

 

Jonas                                Cabaye

 

                            Ben Arfa                    Ba

 

                  Cisse

[Sammys_Tekkers]

Should do my FM formation.

 

                              Krul

 

Santon        Taylor          Colo          New LB

 

                              Tiote

 

Jonas                                Cabaye

 

                            Ben Arfa                    Ba

 

                  Cisse

 

Very similar to mine, apart from it doesn't look as fancy as is just a flat out 4-2-3-1

[Dr Venkman]

They can fulfil pretty much any attacking role except target man, that's the snag.

 

They're both razor sharp finishers, as I see it Pardew's using this as an excuse to concentrate on limiting other teams chances over increasing ours. It's daft imo because those two will out score the vast majority of strike partnerships in the league, get Ben Arfa on the left and Jonas on the right and give them some ammunition, we'd score shit loads.

[Guest H09]

All these tactic and position inventions, its like Sam Allardyce is back.

 

A significant amount of our success this season has come from our pressing game and for that reason until we have Man City's money we need to keep it simple.

[ujpest doza]

Ronaldo's right imo. I didn't see it at first, but he is much more astute when he has the ball and space in front of him. He was a passenger against Arsenal when asked to be the main target man, though a lot of this was due to Obertan being the one playing off him.  The couple of occasions where he had the ball and space to run in to from a little deeper he looked our only threat, shame he was always up against 2 or 3 players though.

 

I think his partnership with Cisse needs to be a fluid one, not defining either with a specific role. Maybe I'm saying this as I don't know yet what his (Cisse) best role is, especially in the PL environment. He too looks to be a runner, though. I don't think tying either of them down to 'target man' would be a great idea. As long as we have the creativity in front of them, we don't need to rely on a 'target man'.

We miss Leon Best, he holds it up and does the donkey work and Ba sticks it in the net.

[Frazzle]

We miss Steven Taylor.

[johnnypd]

How can we justify signing a striker for 9m and not starting him against Norwich?

 

It bothers me that we seem to have four number 9's, and no-one who really looks the part as secondary striker in a 4-4-2. (Jury's still out on Ben Arfa) We'd all like to see Ba and Cisse in the same side, but maybe we have to go 4-3-3 for that.

 

From what I've seen so far, and admittedly it's early days, I've got my doubts in this area. Ba's reputation has been built on his goalscoring, not his link-up play, and we've bought another goalscorer. They don't yet look like a combination to me.

 

 

Ba's been at his best this season playing as a number 9 not as a secondary striker. Maybe people just have different ideas about what those terms mean, but for me he's at his best when he can get in the box and be the prime recipient of chances, having another player doing work for him, not the other way round. This holds true whether it was Shola putting himself about, Best being our target man, or Ben Arfa dropping deep and linking.

 

Not saying him and Cisse can't work together, but it will need some hand's on tinkering from the manager (if he can be bothered to take his eyes off defence) to slightly adjust their natural playing styles. Both of them have good link play and movement so as long as they take turns being the poacher it should be fine. Ba's a bit stronger and better in the air so it makes sense to have him a bit more central, while Cisse's a bit quicker out of the blocks so perhaps let him roam a tad more and exploit space out wide. Oh, and long ball isn't an option if they're both in the team - not even a plan B imo, it's as good as giving the ball away.

[Wullie]

How can we justify signing a striker for 9m and not starting him against Norwich?

 

It bothers me that we seem to have four number 9's, and no-one who really looks the part as secondary striker in a 4-4-2. (Jury's still out on Ben Arfa) We'd all like to see Ba and Cisse in the same side, but maybe we have to go 4-3-3 for that.

 

From what I've seen so far, and admittedly it's early days, I've got my doubts in this area. Ba's reputation has been built on his goalscoring, not his link-up play, and we've bought another goalscorer. They don't yet look like a combination to me.

 

 

Ba's been at his best this season playing as a number 9 not as a secondary striker. Maybe people just have different ideas about what those terms mean, but for me he's at his best when he can get in the box and be the prime recipient of chances, having another player doing work for him, not the other way round. This holds true whether it was Shola putting himself about, Best being our target man, or Ben Arfa dropping deep and linking.

 

Not saying him and Cisse can't work together, but it will need some hand's on tinkering from the manager (if he can be bothered to take his eyes off defence) to slightly adjust their natural playing styles. Both of them have good link play and movement so as long as they take turns being the poacher it should be fine. Ba's a bit stronger and better in the air so it makes sense to have him a bit more central, while Cisse's a bit quicker out of the blocks so perhaps let him roam a tad more and exploit space out wide. Oh, and long ball isn't an option if they're both in the team - not even a plan B imo, it's as good as giving the ball away.

 

 

There's no merit to this idea that he needs someone alongside him "doing the work", as if van Persie plays alongside Heskey, the only way you need that is if you are going to heave balls up in the air that need bringing down. Enough pace and width in the team with players getting ahead of the ball and two good strikers can prosper quite nicely, thank you very much.

[Dave]

http://www.journallive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2012/03/15/hatem-ben-arfa-goal-raises-nufc-fans-expectations-61634-30539811/

Hatem Ben Arfa goal raises NUFC fans' expectations

 

    by Mark Douglas, The Journal

    Mar 15 2012

 

Hatem Ben Arfa’s brilliant goal on Monday has raised expectations that he has finally arrived as a Newcastle player. Mark Douglas investigates the Ben Arfa phenomenon

 

THE French have a word for it – “adroit”.

 

The literal translation into English is skilful, but in the context of Newcastle United virtuoso Hatem Ben Arfa it conjures a more romantic image. It evokes the majestic way the forward is able to accelerate in a matter of seconds from a languid, standing start into a frenzied whir of black and white, annexing the opposition defence before delivering a brutally deadly finish.

 

On Tyneside, we have witnessed this brilliance in tantalising glimpses. Ben Arfa has scored four times for Newcastle in his comeback season and invariably they have been blue chip goals – mini examples of the alchemy that saw him earmarked as one of France’s greatest talents from an early age.

 

Monday’s effort might not have matched the slaloming solo effort that bewitched Blackburn’s back four in January, but it was still brilliant in its own right, the speed of thought and shot conspiring to give United their one moment to cherish at the Emirates.

 

The problem is these flashes of genius have usually been followed by a swing of the axe by Alan Pardew. On each of the three previous occasions Ben Arfa has scored he has not started the following game – a tactic which has brought two defeats and one victory for Pardew’s bold call.

 

The theory advanced by some is that Pardew doesn’t trust Ben Arfa in the big games, but in fact the opposite is true. The Newcastle manager has started his France forward in matches against Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea and Arsenal – but left him on the bench when United have gone toe-to-toe with relative lightweights like Wolves, QPR and West Brom.

 

Pardew’s approach seems to be that a hard-working Newcastle are good enough to grind out results against their mid-table rivals but when they met the big guns he wants Ben Arfa’s unpredictability in his arsenal. The stats back up that version of events – of his five Premier League starts four have come against top-five clubs, with Fulham the only exception to that rule.

 

With 12th-placed Norwich the visitors on Sunday, anxiety might be rising in Ben Arfa’s sizeable band of black and white believers. The Canaries have been good but they are no great shakes – and the worry might be that Pardew checks his forward’s momentum by picking a team to match their work ethic and organisation.

 

Perhaps they needn’t worry, for the signs are that Pardew is getting close to solving the Ben Arfa conundrum. You can never say it with certainty when dealing with such an enigma but there is evidence that the United manager’s message is beginning to resonate with his 23-year-old charge.

 

Directly after his goal at the Emirates, Ben Arfa gave the ball away near the centre circle. He was trying something typically tricky but it didn’t come off, and Tomas Rosicky began to home in on the Newcastle goal. The Ben Arfa of old might have surrendered possession but there was a discernible determination in his efforts to retrieve the ball at the Emirates. He may never be a tireless operator like Cheick Tiote, but there is hope for him yet.

 

For a stats zealot like Pardew, such progress will be hugely encouraging. With the GPS bands and heart rate monitors that are mandatory for Newcastle players during training, Ben Arfa has found no escape from the standards expected of every squad member. At times it has been a steep learning curve and his punishment for dropping below those standards has been a first-team exile which has hurt his manager almost as much as Ben Arfa. But it was felt that no exception could be made for the young Frenchman, whatever his unique gift.

 

Ben Arfa’s close friend and advisor Simon Stainrod offers an insight into the change in the young charge.

 

“I think the change in Hatem is down to hard work and having a little bit of patience,” he told The Journal. “It hasn’t been easy for him with the very serious injury and the fact that the team was doing so well, but I think he’s been mature in his approach and, looking at it from the outside, both the manager and Hatem have handled it very well.

 

“It has been a very steep learning curve for Hatem. He’s had to realise that if you’re playing English football, there are certain responsibilities that you need to take on board. You have to work harder than perhaps he was used to and team shape is an important part of it. What you’re seeing now is a combination of things – Hatem maybe understands English football better and he is now 100% fit for the first time for a long time, and getting time on the pitch.

 

“I was there on Monday and his goal was typical Hatem. Every time he gets the ball you just think ‘Go on’ – you know he can come up with something truly special and that is what I like about watching him play.”

 

Ben Arfa’s lack of game time has provided grist to a Tyneside rumour mill that would have you believe he will be sold at the end of the season for failing to fulfil his promise.

 

Poppycock, according to club insiders. Devout Muslim Ben Arfa is “happy” in Newcastle too, says Stainrod.

 

“I speak to him and Hatem’s relaxed in Newcastle – he loves living in England and playing for the club,” he told The Journal. “He’s a single boy living on his own in Newcastle and he lives a sensible, athlete’s life. He’s a top pro and the image of him as arrogant couldn’t be further from the truth.

 

“He’s actually very humble and he’s very aware that he has a responsibility for the gifts that he’s got. He wants to make the most of them and he wants to do it at Newcastle.”

 

:thup:

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Very encouraging article and fits with the other stuff we've been reading about Hatem really. All credit to the lad for not getting too frustrated when he's not been playing.

 

Dare we suggest that Pardew has actually been managing him quite well behind the scenes?

[AlanSkÃrare]

I just feel he could have gotten up to speed earlier in the season if Pardew hadn't persisted with Taylor or Obertan.

 

Just hope he continues to have impact on games now and establishes himself for real. What an asset he can be, one of the most talented players in the league.