Dave Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If our full backs could be relied on, this would be interesting to see: Tiote Cabaye Gutierrez Ben Arfa Ba Cisse Not going to happen though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novocastrian Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 All of Ba's good performances have comes as a second striker, man. Christ. That's not true at all like like. Both Ba and Cisse play best in a more advanced poacher role imo. Which is why I'm somewhat worried about their partnership. Playing Ba in a support role doesn't just diminish his attacking threat, it often results in our forward line getting detached from our ultra deep midfield. Imo the way forward is to scrap our ineffective wing play. We don't need to play each game with four full backs. Give Hatem the free role upfront and move Jonas infield. Pardew's philosophy is rigid to the maximum though and such a formation requires a lot of fluidity in passing and movement, so it's fair to say that's never going to happen No way Ba is a 'number 9' lead the line type player. He is better dropping off and foraging in the final third. Just because he has a knack of getting into the box on the end of crosses, deflections, rebounds etc doesn't make him a poachers, it's more to do with timing and an eye for goal. He'll be much better with someone slightly ahead of him occupying one or two of the centre backs while he probes and makes runs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ronaldo is right, some of you spout some absolute bullshit at times. The posting judge has spoken, close the forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If our full backs could be relied on, this would be interesting to see: Tiote Cabaye Gutierrez Ben Arfa Ba Cisse Not going to happen though. Yeah, that's a great option, Jonas isn't really a winger anyway. Woud love to see us get another fullback who's good all over the pitch and try it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ronaldo is right, some of you spout some absolute bullshit at times. The posting judge has spoken, close the forum. He is right though, call me what you want, but hes absolute right. Most of Bas goals have come from playing a more withdrawn role, behind Best. Anyone arguing it that either is delusional or believes he could score twice as many goals from his supposedly better more advanced role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ronaldo is right, some of you spout some absolute bullshit at times. Aye, I forgot that Ronaldo talks sense all the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ronaldo is right, some of you spout some absolute bullshit at times. The posting judge has spoken, close the forum. He is right though, call me what you want, but hes absolute right. Most of Bas goals have come from playing a more withdrawn role, behind Best. Anyone arguing it that either is delusional or believes he could score twice as many goals from his supposedly better more advanced role. I agree with the point, I just don't like your stupid post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ronaldo is right, some of you spout some absolute bullshit at times. The posting judge has spoken, close the forum. He is right though, call me what you want, but hes absolute right. Most of Bas goals have come from playing a more withdrawn role, behind Best. Anyone arguing it that either is delusional or believes he could score twice as many goals from his supposedly better more advanced role. I agree with the point, I just don't like your stupid post. Aye, I understand. I mean I feel the same about most of your posts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ronaldo is right, some of you spout some absolute bullshit at times. The posting judge has spoken, close the forum. He is right though, call me what you want, but hes absolute right. Most of Bas goals have come from playing a more withdrawn role, behind Best. Anyone arguing it that either is delusional or believes he could score twice as many goals from his supposedly better more advanced role. I agree with the point, I just don't like your stupid post. Aye, I understand. I mean I feel the same about most of your posts. Wahey! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If our full backs could be relied on, this would be interesting to see: Tiote Cabaye Gutierrez Ben Arfa Ba Cisse Not going to happen though. Yeah, that's a great option, Jonas isn't really a winger anyway. Woud love to see us get another fullback who's good all over the pitch and try it. My immediate reaction to that is still to disagree... but i am coming round to a different way of thinking with him. He's looked effective in the roaming role and actually quite intelligent, which isn't really something i would have attributed to him before. Before this season i'd have said (and had said) that he would never be a fit for the centre. His gangly, unorthodox dribbling style would easily be countered because he often needs a couple square yards to out-do a defender. He wouldn't get that space in the middle. But he adapted his game against QPR and Fulham, and i really think there's a future for him there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ba is well able to play as a second striker and he and Cisse would be more than fine as a partnership if we were being set up a bit better. Most of their games together we've played with two holding midfielders and Ryan Taylor on the right wing. They're far too isolated and as a result struggle to achieve much. Playing Ben Arfa on the right will help a lot, but the real issue is that Pardew needs to rediscover his balls and stop having the CB's and CM's playing so fucking deep. We've been doing that since Fulham raped us in the second half and it's a major reason for why we're seeing so much hoofball, the manager is too terrified of getting exposed at the back to allow the midfielders to push on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If our full backs could be relied on, this would be interesting to see: Tiote Cabaye Gutierrez Ben Arfa Ba Cisse Not going to happen though. Yeah, that's a great option, Jonas isn't really a winger anyway. Woud love to see us get another fullback who's good all over the pitch and try it. My immediate reaction to that is still to disagree... but i am coming round to a different way of thinking with him. He's looked effective in the roaming role and actually quite intelligent, which isn't really something i would have attributed to him before. Before this season i'd have said (and had said) that he would never be a fit for the centre. His gangly, unorthodox dribbling style would easily be countered because he often needs a couple square yards to out-do a defender. He wouldn't get that space in the middle. But he adapted his game against QPR and Fulham, and i really think there's a future for him there. Same really, I'm just starting to think that his lack of attacking threat on the wing might be permanent and he has lost that explosiveness and threat he used to have. I don't know, maybe if he wasn't expected to play every single minute and work his arse off he might offer more going forward. But if not we need to start looking at how to use him in other ways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ronaldo's right imo. I didn't see it at first, but he is much more astute when he has the ball and space in front of him. He was a passenger against Arsenal when asked to be the main target man, though a lot of this was due to Obertan being the one playing off him. The couple of occasions where he had the ball and space to run in to from a little deeper he looked our only threat, shame he was always up against 2 or 3 players though. I think his partnership with Cisse needs to be a fluid one, not defining either with a specific role. Maybe I'm saying this as I don't know yet what his (Cisse) best role is, especially in the PL environment. He too looks to be a runner, though. I don't think tying either of them down to 'target man' would be a great idea. As long as we have the creativity in front of them, we don't need to rely on a 'target man'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ronaldo's right imo. I didn't see it at first, but he is much more astute when he has the ball and space in front of him. He was a passenger against Arsenal when asked to be the main target man, though a lot of this was due to Obertan being the one playing off him. The couple of occasions where he had the ball and space to run in to from a little deeper he looked our only threat, shame he was always up against 2 or 3 players though. I think his partnership with Cisse needs to be a fluid one, not defining either with a specific role. Maybe I'm saying this as I don't know yet what his (Cisse) best role is, especially in the PL environment. He too looks to be a runner, though. I don't think tying either of them down to 'target man' would be a great idea. As long as we have the creativity in front of them, we don't need to rely on a 'target man'. Ba and Cisse would be class, if we passed the ball around. Hoofing will only make them look incompetent. Easy as that really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 They can fulfil pretty much any attacking role except target man, that's the snag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Can just imagine Pardew meeting Cisse for the first time and his heart sinking when he saw how short he was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 We dont need a target man if we actually pass the ball around will being heavily influenced on wing play. There's no reason we cant do this other than Pardew's cowardice. Kind of like this..... http://this11.com/boards/abChz36ag8.jpg It's more of an idea for next season, but it could still work IMO with Jonas in midfield, Santon at LB, Simpson at RB and Williamson at CB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Should do my FM formation. Krul Santon Taylor Colo New LB Tiote Jonas Cabaye Ben Arfa Ba Cisse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammys_Tekkers Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Should do my FM formation. Krul Santon Taylor Colo New LB Tiote Jonas Cabaye Ben Arfa Ba Cisse Very similar to mine, apart from it doesn't look as fancy as is just a flat out 4-2-3-1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 They can fulfil pretty much any attacking role except target man, that's the snag. They're both razor sharp finishers, as I see it Pardew's using this as an excuse to concentrate on limiting other teams chances over increasing ours. It's daft imo because those two will out score the vast majority of strike partnerships in the league, get Ben Arfa on the left and Jonas on the right and give them some ammunition, we'd score shit loads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest H09 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 All these tactic and position inventions, its like Sam Allardyce is back. A significant amount of our success this season has come from our pressing game and for that reason until we have Man City's money we need to keep it simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ronaldo's right imo. I didn't see it at first, but he is much more astute when he has the ball and space in front of him. He was a passenger against Arsenal when asked to be the main target man, though a lot of this was due to Obertan being the one playing off him. The couple of occasions where he had the ball and space to run in to from a little deeper he looked our only threat, shame he was always up against 2 or 3 players though. I think his partnership with Cisse needs to be a fluid one, not defining either with a specific role. Maybe I'm saying this as I don't know yet what his (Cisse) best role is, especially in the PL environment. He too looks to be a runner, though. I don't think tying either of them down to 'target man' would be a great idea. As long as we have the creativity in front of them, we don't need to rely on a 'target man'. We miss Leon Best, he holds it up and does the donkey work and Ba sticks it in the net. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 We miss Steven Taylor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 How can we justify signing a striker for 9m and not starting him against Norwich? It bothers me that we seem to have four number 9's, and no-one who really looks the part as secondary striker in a 4-4-2. (Jury's still out on Ben Arfa) We'd all like to see Ba and Cisse in the same side, but maybe we have to go 4-3-3 for that. From what I've seen so far, and admittedly it's early days, I've got my doubts in this area. Ba's reputation has been built on his goalscoring, not his link-up play, and we've bought another goalscorer. They don't yet look like a combination to me. Ba's been at his best this season playing as a number 9 not as a secondary striker. Maybe people just have different ideas about what those terms mean, but for me he's at his best when he can get in the box and be the prime recipient of chances, having another player doing work for him, not the other way round. This holds true whether it was Shola putting himself about, Best being our target man, or Ben Arfa dropping deep and linking. Not saying him and Cisse can't work together, but it will need some hand's on tinkering from the manager (if he can be bothered to take his eyes off defence) to slightly adjust their natural playing styles. Both of them have good link play and movement so as long as they take turns being the poacher it should be fine. Ba's a bit stronger and better in the air so it makes sense to have him a bit more central, while Cisse's a bit quicker out of the blocks so perhaps let him roam a tad more and exploit space out wide. Oh, and long ball isn't an option if they're both in the team - not even a plan B imo, it's as good as giving the ball away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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