Hatem Ben Arfa

[Dinho lad]

Nothing at all wrong with his assist or goal contribution with the time he's had on the pitch,

 

But there probably is something wrong with the amount of times he gets himself into good positions only to end-up doing stuff not so productive.

[Hanshithispantz]

I wouldn't drop Remy like

 

His last couple of performances are the kind that would see Ben Arfa benched though. Not that I even feel he's been too disgusting either.

[Mick]

Remy should be dropped.

 

He shouldn't be dropped but I would have taken him off yesterday before Gouffran off.

[Wullie]

I wouldn't drop Remy like

 

His last couple of performances are the kind that would see Ben Arfa benched though. Not that I even feel he's been too disgusting either.

 

Agreed.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Nothing at all wrong with his assist or goal contribution with the time he's had on the pitch,

 

But there probably is something wrong with the amount of times he gets himself into good positions only to end-up doing stuff not so productive.

His very high return rate indicates that he makes great use of the positions he gets into quite a lot. He makes a lot of dangerous situations because of his talents. Much more so than he ruins attacks with selfishness.

[Dinho lad]

Nothing at all wrong with his assist or goal contribution with the time he's had on the pitch,

 

But there probably is something wrong with the amount of times he gets himself into good positions only to end-up doing stuff not so productive.

 

how much of this is exaggerated due to the close attention people pay to him though? i wouldn't say it happens anymore than any other player we have. Sissoko is badly guilty of it imo

 

No, this is just another one, of the many, excuses some of you like you come up with.

[Dinho lad]

Nothing at all wrong with his assist or goal contribution with the time he's had on the pitch,

 

But there probably is something wrong with the amount of times he gets himself into good positions only to end-up doing stuff not so productive.

His very high return rate indicates that he makes great use of the positions he gets into quite a lot. He makes a lot of dangerous situations because of his talents. Much more so than he ruins attacks with selfishness.

 

Very high return? Yeah, if you're using the games v goals/assists arguments. But then, even "very high return" is arguable.

[Hanshithispantz]

Nothing at all wrong with his assist or goal contribution with the time he's had on the pitch,

 

But there probably is something wrong with the amount of times he gets himself into good positions only to end-up doing stuff not so productive.

He creates those positions himself though, any other player would usually swing a floated ball into the box or play the ball back to another midfielder/attacker outside of the area. I do get frustrated with him at times like, seeing him take a touch too many, but the alternatives are equally as futile if not more so.

 

There's room for improvement obviously, both from himself and from Pardew.

[Dinho lad]

Nothing at all wrong with his assist or goal contribution with the time he's had on the pitch,

 

But there probably is something wrong with the amount of times he gets himself into good positions only to end-up doing stuff not so productive.

He creates those positions himself though, any other player would usually swing a floated ball into the box or play the ball back to another midfielder/attacker outside of the area. I do get frustrated with him at times like, seeing him take a touch too many, but the alternatives are equally as futile if not more so.

 

There's room for improvement obviously, both from himself and from Pardew.

 

Alternatives are equally futile? Do you mean the alternatives on the pitch, or the ones he's playing instead of? If the later, then I agree. But this doesn't mean I shouldn't highlight his tendency to overplay and messing up opportunities.

[Wullie]

You'd be hard pressed not to find a player like HBA who doesn't waste a lot of good opportunities tbh, because they create so many for themselves. Suarez made a right mess of a couple today (notably when he could have squared to Henderson for a tap in but went greedy and had his shot saved). If that's your one chance in the game then it's a problem. If you're that good that you get into ten of those positions and waste seven, it's less of a concern.

 

Pretty sure that statistically the player who gives the ball away most in Europe is Messi, and has been for years.

[Mick]

 

 

Very high return? Yeah, if you're using the games v goals/assists arguments. But then, even "very high return" is arguable.

 

He's got a better goal/assist rate than the bloke keeping him out of the position I prefer to see him in, on our right side of attack.

[Dinho lad]

Nothing at all wrong with his assist or goal contribution with the time he's had on the pitch,

 

But there probably is something wrong with the amount of times he gets himself into good positions only to end-up doing stuff not so productive.

 

how much of this is exaggerated due to the close attention people pay to him though? i wouldn't say it happens anymore than any other player we have. Sissoko is badly guilty of it imo

 

No, this is just another one, of the many, excuses some of you like you come up with.

 

really? It's not excusing him, but what do you expect a 100% return rate on every possible attacking position?  Cabaye is guilty of it, as is Sissoko, as is practically everyone else.

 

Yeah, of course.

 

A lot of people here know by now that I'm not Cabaye's biggest fan and I think he's quite overrated. Sissoko should not be playing out wide.

[Dinho lad]

 

 

Very high return? Yeah, if you're using the games v goals/assists arguments. But then, even "very high return" is arguable.

 

He's got a better goal/assist rate than the bloke keeping him out of the position I prefer to see him in, on our right side of attack.

 

I do think HBA should still be playing, though. That's no what I'm arguing about.

[Mick]

 

 

I do think HBA should still be playing, though. That's no what I'm arguing about.

 

Fair enough.

[Hanshithispantz]

Nothing at all wrong with his assist or goal contribution with the time he's had on the pitch,

 

But there probably is something wrong with the amount of times he gets himself into good positions only to end-up doing stuff not so productive.

He creates those positions himself though, any other player would usually swing a floated ball into the box or play the ball back to another midfielder/attacker outside of the area. I do get frustrated with him at times like, seeing him take a touch too many, but the alternatives are equally as futile if not more so.

 

There's room for improvement obviously, both from himself and from Pardew.

 

Alternatives are equally futile? Do you mean the alternatives on the pitch, or the ones he's playing instead of? If the later, then I agree. But this doesn't mean I shouldn't highlight his tendency to overplay and messing up opportunities.

I mean the alternative decisions he could make, i.e hitting a ball into the box early or giving it back to another player outside of the box (which he also does).

[Dinho lad]

You'd be hard pressed not to find a player like HBA who doesn't waste a lot of good opportunities tbh, because they create so many for themselves. Suarez made a right mess of a couple today (notably when he could have squared to Henderson for a tap in but went greedy and had his shot saved). If that's your one chance in the game then it's a problem. If you're that good that you get into ten of those positions and waste seven, it's less of a concern.

 

Pretty sure that statistically the player who gives the ball away most in Europe is Messi, and has been for years.

 

Sigh. I think a player of HBA talents should producing a lot more. The guy wasn't far away from the likes of Gareth Bale couple years ago. Now... he's miles away.

[HawK]

Debuchy wouldn't have been playing with this much freedom with HBA in front of him, as a pair Sissoko and Debuchy have been great. HBA needs to be in the middle at or near the front so that he can be carried. Elsewhere it's too exploitable.

[cp40]

if he made better decisions, more often, theres no doubt he has all the ability to be an outstanding player. Easily the ability to be a really top notch player.

Frustrating as fuck watching him have all this ability and make the wrong choice  so often. he will hang onto the ball too long, try and beat too many players, go for over optimistic shots- when if he decided to Im certain he could pick and make killer passes and produce far more for the team.

[Dave]

if he made better decisions, more often, theres no doubt he has all the ability to be an outstanding player. Easily the ability to be a really top notch player.

Frustrating as fuck watching him have all this ability and make the wrong choice  so often. he will hang onto the ball too long, try and beat too many players, go for over optimistic shots- when if he decided to Im certain he could pick and make killer passes and produce far more for the team.

 

Wonder how much influence Pardew has on his play. Surely it can't be hard to instruct him to lay it off it earlier, maybe he does.

[Wullie]

You'd be hard pressed not to find a player like HBA who doesn't waste a lot of good opportunities tbh, because they create so many for themselves. Suarez made a right mess of a couple today (notably when he could have squared to Henderson for a tap in but went greedy and had his shot saved). If that's your one chance in the game then it's a problem. If you're that good that you get into ten of those positions and waste seven, it's less of a concern.

 

Pretty sure that statistically the player who gives the ball away most in Europe is Messi, and has been for years.

 

Sigh. I think a player of HBA talents should producing a lot more. The guy wasn't far away from the likes of Gareth Bale couple years ago. Now... he's miles away.

 

Gareth Bale tended to play. I think that helped him tbh.

[cp40]

if he made better decisions, more often, theres no doubt he has all the ability to be an outstanding player. Easily the ability to be a really top notch player.

Frustrating as fuck watching him have all this ability and make the wrong choice  so often. he will hang onto the ball too long, try and beat too many players, go for over optimistic shots- when if he decided to Im certain he could pick and make killer passes and produce far more for the team.

 

Wonder how much influence Pardew has on his play. Surely it can't be hard to instruct him to lay it off it earlier, maybe he does.

 

I think hes tried that with him, and as he didnt heed it, he was benched.

[Hanshithispantz]

It cannot help him coming into games when we need a goal as that's the kind of "magic" that's expected of him. It must be hard not trying to go for glory knowing that you only have 20 minutes to make an impression. On the other hand Marveaux is the complete opposite and seems to keep his cool and play his game regardless of the score, baffling that he hasn't featured more tbh.

[Wullie]

And the problem remains that our players stand still and watch him when he has the ball. The opposition regularly put three men on him, which means there's space elsewhere, yet nobody running into it.

[Dave]

if he made better decisions, more often, theres no doubt he has all the ability to be an outstanding player. Easily the ability to be a really top notch player.

Frustrating as fuck watching him have all this ability and make the wrong choice  so often. he will hang onto the ball too long, try and beat too many players, go for over optimistic shots- when if he decided to Im certain he could pick and make killer passes and produce far more for the team.

 

Wonder how much influence Pardew has on his play. Surely it can't be hard to instruct him to lay it off it earlier, maybe he does.

 

I think hes tried that with him, and as he didnt heed it, he was benched.

 

Thought that was always more to do with his workrate in a defensive capacity. Which to be fair I think paid off to some degree.

[Hanshithispantz]

Saw that yesterday when Anita made the Southampton defence look like mugs too, absolutely criminal that the entire team apparently stood there in awe like the rest of us for the 5-10 seconds he had the ball instead of getting into the box. Not a single person there.