Hatem Ben Arfa

[hakka]

In no universe should Hatem Ben Arfa be warming any bench in the Prem, he's an absolute talent and it's just highlighting Pardew's shortcomings as a manager that he can't integrate a player of his standard into the team.

 

I'm sick of this brain washing the idea that he doesn't work hard enough in defence, did Sir Bobby worry about that with Robert or KK with Ginola? Yes there is an element of defending and tracking back, all flair players need to learn a modicum of defensive duties in the Premiership but it shouldn't be their main purpose.

 

HBA has come a long way since he first came here as a raw talent, he has worked on his game, that much is obvious. We became too reliant on his moments of magic and the team has benefited from his absence in the short term but he needs to come back into the fold.

 

He's the one genuine player that can carve into teams and cut defences open. We need him to open teams up like Palace.

 

Have to agree, we should be striving to find a way to accommodate him. IMO it's simple, just drop Shola in the vast majority of games and give HBA a free role behind Remy.

 

I still think there is value in this, in particular if he can roam quite freely and pick it up wide and cut inside and vice versa. I think it was the Sunderland game where that central forward-ish role just didn't work for him as he was closed down by 3 or 4 players each time, but I think he can be effective there if we worked on it with him.

[Guest bimpy474]

Reading some of these posts you would think this was Gareth Bale or someone.

 

It's all relative, he's our best player on his day and should be in the team. He's not Bale, he's our Bale if you like to put it that way, in some fans eyes.

 

It's just for me, he's a special talent that has to be in the team. And our manager, whoever that maybe should be able to fit a talent like him in.

[Gallowgate Toon]

I don't think we should accept that this is just HBA and we need to work around him, his game can, and should, be improved. As it stands, I'm not sure if he should be in the team, he shouldn't be behind Shola but there are a limited number of spots with other players playing well. If he wants the freedom that the likes of Suarez, Messi, Bale etc. have had, he needs to earn it while playing by the rules, just like they did.

 

That doesn't mean he needs to be a workhorse, but he can't be a liability when he's not doing good stuff on the ball. His effort against Hull was atrocious and he's not proven himself to be good enough to be like that, nor are we a good enough side to carry someone. It's come back into fashion that everyone works hard, more talented players aren't really exempt from not doing their bit anymore, unless they're really special and regularly win games. HBA simply hasn't proven that consistently enough, his game could be better considering the talent he has.

[jdckelly]

In no universe should Hatem Ben Arfa be warming any bench in the Prem, he's an absolute talent and it's just highlighting Pardew's shortcomings as a manager that he can't integrate a player of his standard into the team.

 

I'm sick of this brain washing the idea that he doesn't work hard enough in defence, did Sir Bobby worry about that with Robert or KK with Ginola? Yes there is an element of defending and tracking back, all flair players need to learn a modicum of defensive duties in the Premiership but it shouldn't be their main purpose.

 

HBA has come a long way since he first came here as a raw talent, he has worked on his game, that much is obvious. We became too reliant on his moments of magic and the team has benefited from his absence in the short term but he needs to come back into the fold.

 

He's the one genuine player that can carve into teams and cut defences open. We need him to open teams up like Palace.

 

Have to agree, we should be striving to find a way to accommodate him. IMO it's simple, just drop Shola in the vast majority of games and give HBA a free role behind Remy.

when has he at any point during the quite a few chances he's had behind the striker has he ever done anything for us? The only position hes been effective has been on the right and thats when he plays where he should play and on current form sissoko doesn't deserve to be dropped from there.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

He hasn't had enough chances IMO, not for prolonged periods in a team that is functioning properly. Just my opinion on what I would do with him, we would move to another level if we could get him firing.

[Pata]

Sissoko loses the ball plenty of times, either by a dodgy touch or a dodgy pass BUT he doesn't get half the stick Ben Arfa gets, though I suppose that is the price Ben Arfa has to pay for the expectation heaped on him

 

I thought the only wrong thing he did was not passing to Remy on the left yet there was someone describing his performance as rank

 

 

I don't think anyone suggests Sissoko is better with the ball then Ben Arfa, but what he does do off the ball has allowed Debuchy to show how class he is going forward. While we have Debuchy at RB, there really isn't a place for HBA on the right. Needs to be in the middle up top or just behind.

 

On form Debuchy shouldn't need Sissoko ahead of him to perform. IMO it's ridiculous to say there's no way for Debuchy and HBA to play on the same wing.

[Parky]

The wide forwards have to drop off and help the fullbacks it's why Pards prefers the athletic ones to Hatem. That's the bottom line. Is it the right line? No.

[Lotus]

I think if the TEAM attacked better as a result of him being on the pitch then there would always be a place for him.

[Guest bimpy474]

I think if the TEAM attacked better as a result of him being on the pitch then there would always be a place for him.

 

Absolutely, and this is where Pardew comes into the equation.

[Darth Crooks]

We've never won a single game against cuntflap city when Ben Arfa has had a run in the side. Fact.

[Guest bimpy474]

We've never won a single game against cuntflap city when Ben Arfa has had a run in the side. Fact.

 

[HawK]

Sissoko loses the ball plenty of times, either by a dodgy touch or a dodgy pass BUT he doesn't get half the stick Ben Arfa gets, though I suppose that is the price Ben Arfa has to pay for the expectation heaped on him

 

I thought the only wrong thing he did was not passing to Remy on the left yet there was someone describing his performance as rank

 

 

I don't think anyone suggests Sissoko is better with the ball then Ben Arfa, but what he does do off the ball has allowed Debuchy to show how class he is going forward. While we have Debuchy at RB, there really isn't a place for HBA on the right. Needs to be in the middle up top or just behind.

 

On form Debuchy shouldn't need Sissoko ahead of him to perform. IMO it's ridiculous to say there's no way for Debuchy and HBA to play on the same wing.

 

I agree -  it's just our shape with and without the ball, along with everything else, that makes it a weakness for us while Pardew is at the helm. More competent managers would cover up that side with Tiote whilst we were in possession if that's where we have ball - rather than having Tiote playing the (often) final ball through the middle as a punt.

[Guest firetotheworks]

It's funny that Bale has been used as an example, when at one point it was universally accepted that he was a massive flop and not good enough for Spurs.

 

We're now talking about Ben Arfa as if he hasn't got the same ability as Bale, which is utter nonsense. Ben Arfa is a ridiculously talented player and to suggest that he hasn't got the ability to play at the same level as Bale is really naive.

 

Consistency, being direct and keeping things simple is what he needs to work on, but Ben Arfa isn't just some show pony, we've all seen that he's the real deal. I don't buy this not tracking back thing for a second. It's easy to accuse flair players of being like that because it's a stereotype, but he does track back and he does defend, it's just not in any way a strength of his.

 

Give him the ball on the right hand side when we're on the attack and there's very little that he can't do, either directly by taking people on, putting a cross in, or scoring. Or indirectly because teams double and treble up on him and create space for others.

[Guest palnese]

The problem with our team and Ben Arfa is that everyone around him expects him to do it all by himself. There's no fucker moving into space when Ben Arfa's on the ball. Everyone's just standing there, waiting for something to happen instead of contributing themselves.

[Pata]

Sissoko loses the ball plenty of times, either by a dodgy touch or a dodgy pass BUT he doesn't get half the stick Ben Arfa gets, though I suppose that is the price Ben Arfa has to pay for the expectation heaped on him

 

I thought the only wrong thing he did was not passing to Remy on the left yet there was someone describing his performance as rank

 

 

I don't think anyone suggests Sissoko is better with the ball then Ben Arfa, but what he does do off the ball has allowed Debuchy to show how class he is going forward. While we have Debuchy at RB, there really isn't a place for HBA on the right. Needs to be in the middle up top or just behind.

 

On form Debuchy shouldn't need Sissoko ahead of him to perform. IMO it's ridiculous to say there's no way for Debuchy and HBA to play on the same wing.

 

I agree -  it's just our shape with and without the ball, along with everything else, that makes it a weakness for us while Pardew is at the helm. More competent managers would cover up that side with Tiote whilst we were in possession if that's where we have ball - rather than having Tiote playing the (often) final ball through the middle as a punt.

 

That's just rewriting history and doesn't happen enough to be mentioned.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's funny that Bale has been used as an example, when at one point it was universally accepted that he was a massive flop and not good enough for Spurs.

 

We're now talking about Ben Arfa as if he hasn't got the same ability as Bale, which is utter nonsense. Ben Arfa is a ridiculously talented player and to suggest that he hasn't got the ability to play at the same level as Bale is really naive.

 

Consistency, being direct and keeping things simple is what he needs to work on, but Ben Arfa isn't just some show pony, we've all seen that he's the real deal. I don't buy this not tracking back thing for a second. It's easy to accuse flair players of being like that because it's a stereotype, but he does track back and he does defend, it's just not in any way a strength of his.

 

Give him the ball on the right hand side when we're on the attack and there's very little that he can't do, either directly by taking people on, putting a cross in, or scoring. Or indirectly because teams double and treble up on him and create space for others.

 

[NUFC]

I don't think we should accept that this is just HBA and we need to work around him, his game can, and should, be improved. As it stands, I'm not sure if he should be in the team, he shouldn't be behind Shola but there are a limited number of spots with other players playing well. If he wants the freedom that the likes of Suarez, Messi, Bale etc. have had, he needs to earn it while playing by the rules, just like they did.

 

That doesn't mean he needs to be a workhorse, but he can't be a liability when he's not doing good stuff on the ball. His effort against Hull was atrocious and he's not proven himself to be good enough to be like that, nor are we a good enough side to carry someone. It's come back into fashion that everyone works hard, more talented players aren't really exempt from not doing their bit anymore, unless they're really special and regularly win games. HBA simply hasn't proven that consistently enough, his game could be better considering the talent he has.

 

Good post.

[sugoinufc]

In no universe should Hatem Ben Arfa be warming any bench in the Prem, he's an absolute talent and it's just highlighting Pardew's shortcomings as a manager that he can't integrate a player of his standard into the team.

 

I'm sick of this brain washing the idea that he doesn't work hard enough in defence, did Sir Bobby worry about that with Robert or KK with Ginola? Yes there is an element of defending and tracking back, all flair players need to learn a modicum of defensive duties in the Premiership but it shouldn't be their main purpose.

 

HBA has come a long way since he first came here as a raw talent, he has worked on his game, that much is obvious. We became too reliant on his moments of magic and the team has benefited from his absence in the short term but he needs to come back into the fold.

 

He's the one genuine player that can carve into teams and cut defences open. We need him to open teams up like Palace.

 

Have to agree, we should be striving to find a way to accommodate him. IMO it's simple, just drop Shola in the vast majority of games and give HBA a free role behind Remy.

 

This. Shola ahead of arfa, says it all. Like we are doing well, but it somehow does not feel right. Can't really be 100% excited even though i feel much better than last year/summer.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just seems insane when Mapou, Anita and HBA are sitting on our bench.

 

Although fair play to Pardew, he has got a system that is getting decent results so he's entitled to stick to it.

[Gallowgate Toon]

It's funny that Bale has been used as an example, when at one point it was universally accepted that he was a massive flop and not good enough for Spurs.

 

We're now talking about Ben Arfa as if he hasn't got the same ability as Bale, which is utter nonsense. Ben Arfa is a ridiculously talented player and to suggest that he hasn't got the ability to play at the same level as Bale is really naive.

 

Consistency, being direct and keeping things simple is what he needs to work on, but Ben Arfa isn't just some show pony, we've all seen that he's the real deal. I don't buy this not tracking back thing for a second. It's easy to accuse flair players of being like that because it's a stereotype, but he does track back and he does defend, it's just not in any way a strength of his.

 

Give him the ball on the right hand side when we're on the attack and there's very little that he can't do, either directly by taking people on, putting a cross in, or scoring. Or indirectly because teams double and treble up on him and create space for others.

 

Has anyone said he's less talented than Bale? The general point is, Bale produced over an extended period of time. He proved his consistency and grew into a player that became the heart of a good side. Ben Arfa hasn't done that, some of that is him, some of it is down to factors that are out of his control.

 

I think he's tremendously talented but his application could be far improved. I think he does himself a disservice by wanting to dribble as much as he does, it inhibits the rest of his other abilities, because he does have two good feet, can spot passes and put in great crosses etc. I would like to see him use his head a bit more before he receives the ball, look at what else is going on. I feel he has generally treated passing and crossing as a last resort since the beginning of 12/13, which is a shame, and because there are times he hangs onto the ball looking for an opening to run with it, it slows us down as a team. Pardew was right in the Fulham game, he told him to pick the tempo up and be more aware, he put in a cracking second half performance that saw him create 2 brilliant chances and score a goal.

 

As for the tracking back, I thought the was pretty excellent at it about a year ago. Of course, it's not his strength (nor should it be) but he's been given more responsibility and that side of stuff has regressed too much, IMO.

 

I just want to see the Hatem we saw in the second half of 11/12. If he recaptures that balance, he'd be the first name on my team sheet, every time. I think Pardew tried to make him into the creative centre of this squad but it's backfired, he's now seen that and this is his way of rectifying it, not that I think it's the right way to deal with it.

[Guest firetotheworks]

It's funny that Bale has been used as an example, when at one point it was universally accepted that he was a massive flop and not good enough for Spurs.

 

We're now talking about Ben Arfa as if he hasn't got the same ability as Bale, which is utter nonsense. Ben Arfa is a ridiculously talented player and to suggest that he hasn't got the ability to play at the same level as Bale is really naive.

 

Consistency, being direct and keeping things simple is what he needs to work on, but Ben Arfa isn't just some show pony, we've all seen that he's the real deal. I don't buy this not tracking back thing for a second. It's easy to accuse flair players of being like that because it's a stereotype, but he does track back and he does defend, it's just not in any way a strength of his.

 

Give him the ball on the right hand side when we're on the attack and there's very little that he can't do, either directly by taking people on, putting a cross in, or scoring. Or indirectly because teams double and treble up on him and create space for others.

 

Has anyone said he's less talented than Bale? The general point is, Bale produced over an extended period of time. He proved his consistency and grew into a player that became the heart of a good side. Ben Arfa hasn't done that, some of that is him, some of it is down to factors that are out of his control.

 

I think he's tremendously talented but his application could be far improved. I think he does himself a disservice by wanting to dribble as much as he does, it inhibits the rest of his other abilities, because he does have two good feet, can spot passes and put in great crosses etc. I would like to see him use his head a bit more before he receives the ball, look at what else is going on. I feel he has generally treated passing and crossing as a last resort since the beginning of 12/13, which is a shame, and because there are times he hangs onto the ball looking for an opening to run with it, it slows us down as a team. Pardew was right in the Fulham game, he told him to pick the tempo up and be more aware, he put in a cracking second half performance that saw him create 2 brilliant chances and score a goal.

 

As for the tracking back, I thought the was pretty excellent at it about a year ago. Of course, it's not his strength (nor should it be) but he's been given more responsibility and that side of stuff has regressed too much, IMO.

 

I just want to see the Hatem we saw in the second half of 11/12. If he recaptures that balance, he'd be the first name on my team sheet, every time. I think Pardew tried to make him into the creative centre of this squad but it's backfired, he's now seen that and this is his way of rectifying it, not that I think it's the right way to deal with it.

 

Yeah.

 

Reading some of these posts you would think this was Gareth Bale or someone.

 

The rest of what you've posted is pretty much what I was getting at when I said consistency, decision making and playing it simple.

[jdckelly]

Just seems insane when Mapou, Anita and HBA are sitting on our bench.

 

Although fair play to Pardew, he has got a system that is getting decent results so he's entitled to stick to it.

Mapou can feel unlucky and while I'd have kept him in the side ahead of Colo its not so big a difference to be all that concerned in the short term about. Anita can probably feel a bit unlucky too but as you said the system as present is working and getting decent football and he does come off the bench and I wouldn't put him ahead of Tiote or Cabaye who are a better balanced pair in cm than anita with either tbh.

 

The problem with HBA is not and has never been one of talent its been application and consistency and the side now compared to the one prior to half time at Everton simply is better balanced in defense and attack without him at the moment. He will get his chance again no doubt and it will be up to him to take it and make himself undroppable when it arrives.

[Guest hatem garrincha]

 

Has anyone said he's less talented than Bale? The general point is, Bale produced over an extended period of time. He proved his consistency and grew into a player that became the heart of a good side. Ben Arfa hasn't done that, some of that is him, some of it is down to factors that are out of his control.

 

I think he's tremendously talented but his application could be far improved.

 

That's a very good summary of Ben Arfa.

 

In fact, he's more talented than Bale, but Bale is just more professional, nd that's the main problem of Hatem.

 

His inconsistency come from his lack of work and the way he lives...

 

I don't know if he can change at 26.

[Andy]

Depends how you define talent. Ben Arfa is better at controlling a football and dribbling than Bale is, and he's arguably a better passer of the ball. There's more to football than those aspects though, even though they're usually the ones that are considered criteria for having "talent". Bale is physically and mentally light-years ahead of Hatem and the footballing qualities he possesses are a lot more effective in the modern game than the qualities Ben Arfa possesses. As a modern footballer Bale is vastly more "talented" IMO and that's been reflected on the pitch consistently for several years now.

[Guest hatem garrincha]

I just think that Ben Arfa, with his qualities, could have been more effective than Bale ( in modern football) if he has made in the past the right choices.