Dave Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Santon Simpson Raylor Perch Tavernier Gutierrez Saylor Anita Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I don't think we'll rely on him, I just think he'll play a part in Europe or in the cups to keep others fresh for the league. People have read Chris' post wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Including Adam Campbell. Deary me. Not that mental like, he could play a part in Europe. It does cry out desperation however. Not quite as desperate as Simpson . . . . I know we've got R Taylor and Perch but neither are specialist fullbacks. We have 3 recognised strikers (of which 2 are excellent) but only 1 recognised right back who happens to be shit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Forgetting the personalities involved. I'm leaning towards us needing a decent striker over a full back. Why? We've got two decent strikers and we only usually play one up front. Like said yesterday the one key area we are still weak in the first 11 is right back (or left back if you move Santon to the right). I really believe two quality full backs could make a massive difference to our game. And IF they manage to beat ivory coast and go to the african nations or heaven forbid they happen to get injured? So yes, a back up striker would be nice, but our first choice strikers are pretty good, if not better than most. We only have one premier class full back though in Santon and even he's finding his feet again after being out of the picture at Inter. Let's get the first 11 right then we can start looking at back up players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Forgetting the personalities involved. I'm leaning towards us needing a decent striker over a full back. Why? We've got two decent strikers and we only usually play one up front. Like said yesterday the one key area we are still weak in the first 11 is right back (or left back if you move Santon to the right). I really believe two quality full backs could make a massive difference to our game. Papiss and Ba will be playing most games together, not rotated. With one or both occasionally out injured for periods (or going to the ACN), relying on a perpetually injured Shola as backup now that Best and Lovelypants have gone is just asking for trouble imho. Upgrading out rightback may be desirable, but if we don't, we have solid enough depth in those positions now. So you would rather improve the bench than the first team? righto Not denying we need depth upfront and arguably at the back too, but getting an attacking RB will improve the first eleven so much and thus much more important i can't believe i'm even having a debate on this. Improving the first team is more important than improving the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Santon Simpson Raylor Perch Tavernier Gutierrez Saylor Anita + Ferguson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Well you've got Simpson, Perch and Raylor. Then obviously Santon can cover if we decided to play Ferguson left back. Not likely all them to be injured at same time. Everyone hates Simpson but he's still better than all our opinions of him, he does an average job in a good side and stands out like a sore thumb. However take Ba and Cisse out of our side, we are left with Shola. He now struggles to last 90 minutes with his inuries, let alone lead the line for at least a month with no back up on the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Forgetting the personalities involved. I'm leaning towards us needing a decent striker over a full back. Why? We've got two decent strikers and we only usually play one up front. Like said yesterday the one key area we are still weak in the first 11 is right back (or left back if you move Santon to the right). I really believe two quality full backs could make a massive difference to our game. Papiss and Ba will be playing most games together, not rotated. With one or both occasionally out injured for periods (or going to the ACN), relying on a perpetually injured Shola as backup now that Best and Lovelypants have gone is just asking for trouble imho. Upgrading out rightback may be desirable, but if we don't, we have solid enough depth in those positions now. So you would rather improve the bench than the first team? righto I think we need a fullback more so than a striker, but not for this reason. Strikers and centre backs are difficult to replace if they are injured/suspended where as fullbacks are far easier to fill in with a temporary stopgap. We lose both Papis and Ba for any length of time and we're probably fucked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Also yes the Demba's may go to the ACoN in January, but the window is re-opened in that month If required. I would say that improving our First 11 is of more importance and as such I'd rather see Debuchy or Van de Wiel come in ahead of a third choice striker. I mean if we're playing 433 this year players like Sammy and Ferguson can play in a wide forward type position so only having one central striker might not be the end of the world. For what its worth I also wouldn't say that Ba's inclusion in the Senegalese squad is a forgone conclusion either, what with the emergence of Konate and his relatively poor performances last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Santon Simpson Raylor Perch Tavernier Gutierrez Saylor Anita And you had the fucking gall to pull me up on putting Adam Campbell 5th choice striker? Gutierrez is about as much a fullback as he is a striker. Might as well put him in that list as well. When old Diego's put enough coke up his nose to rival Tony Montana before selecting his teams you can't then use that to back up your arguments that we've got enough fullbacks. If Jonas is playing there, we're screwed. Steven Taylor will be playing DC, so he can't play DR. He's our second best centre back. Likewise, Anita will be in midfield. Last time I checked it's against the rules to clone footballers, so they'll just have to play one position each. Raylor has no pace, and both he and Perch played above themselves last season and can't be relied upon to do the same again this campaign. Maybe they will, but 6 months of good form in otherwise utterly mediocre careers suggests that they just hit a purple patch, not that they suddenly became tremendous assets to the club. Fullback before striker. Though like I say, we do need both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Santon Simpson Raylor Perch Tavernier Gutierrez Saylor Anita And you had the f***ing gall to pull me up on putting Adam Campbell 5th choice striker? Gutierrez is about as much a fullback as he is a striker. Might as well put him in that list as well. When old Diego's put enough coke up his nose to rival Tony Montana before selecting his teams you can't then use that to back up your arguments that we've got enough fullbacks. If Jonas is playing there, we're screwed. Steven Taylor will be playing DC, so he can't play DR. He's our second best centre back. Likewise, Anita will be in midfield. Last time I checked it's against the rules to clone footballers, so they'll just have to play one position each. Raylor has no pace, and both he and Perch played above themselves last season and can't be relied upon to do the same again this campaign. Maybe they will, but 6 months of good form in otherwise utterly mediocre careers suggests that they just hit a purple patch, not that they suddenly became tremendous assets to the club. Fullback before striker. Though like I say, we do need both. This Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I'm pretty sure Guti played a fair few games for us at left back in the second half of last season, so wouldn't call it that daft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Santon Simpson Raylor Perch Tavernier Gutierrez Saylor Anita And you had the fucking gall to pull me up on putting Adam Campbell 5th choice striker? Gutierrez is about as much a fullback as he is a striker. Might as well put him in that list as well. When old Diego's put enough coke up his nose to rival Tony Montana before selecting his teams you can't then use that to back up your arguments that we've got enough fullbacks. If Jonas is playing there, we're screwed. Steven Taylor will be playing DC, so he can't play DR. He's our second best centre back. Likewise, Anita will be in midfield. Last time I checked it's against the rules to clone footballers, so they'll just have to play one position each. Raylor has no pace, and both he and Perch played above themselves last season and can't be relied upon to do the same again this campaign. Maybe they will, but 6 months of good form in otherwise utterly mediocre careers suggests that they just hit a purple patch, not that they suddenly became tremendous assets to the club. Fullback before striker. Though like I say, we do need both. Tavernier made 32 senior appearances last year and played a lot in pre-season. Campbell hasn't even played a single competitive senior match yet has he? Slight difference there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 As I see it: First/second choices Options in case of injury/suspension/cups Emergencies Keepers Krul Harper Elliot Fullbacks Santon Simpson Anita Perch R.Taylor Ferguson Tavernier Gutierrez S.Taylor Centre-backs Coloccini S.Taylor Williamson Perch Good Tavernier Simpson Wingers/wide midfielders Marveaux Gutierrez Ben Arfa Obertan Sa.Ameobi Amalfitano R.Taylor Ferguson Central midfielders Tiote Cabaye Anita Gutierrez Gosling Perch Abeid Bigirimana Amalfitano Marveaux Vuckic R.Taylor Forwards Ba Cisse Sh.Ameobi Ben Arfa Vuckic Sa.Ameobi Something like that. Looking pretty good tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I'm pretty sure Guti played a fair few games for us at left back in the second half of last season, so wouldn't call it that daft. He did. Some are expecting/hoping for him to play there on Saturday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MW Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 ben arfa should be in bold Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 ben arfa should be in bold He is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Forgetting the personalities involved. I'm leaning towards us needing a decent striker over a full back. Why? We've got two decent strikers and we only usually play one up front. Like said yesterday the one key area we are still weak in the first 11 is right back (or left back if you move Santon to the right). I really believe two quality full backs could make a massive difference to our game. Papiss and Ba will be playing most games together, not rotated. With one or both occasionally out injured for periods (or going to the ACN), relying on a perpetually injured Shola as backup now that Best and Lovelypants have gone is just asking for trouble imho. Upgrading out rightback may be desirable, but if we don't, we have solid enough depth in those positions now. So you would rather improve the bench than the first team? righto I think we need a fullback more so than a striker, but not for this reason. Strikers and centre backs are difficult to replace if they are injured/suspended where as fullbacks are far easier to fill in with a temporary stopgap. We lose both Papis and Ba for any length of time and we're probably f***ed. AFCON aside how likely is it Papiss and Demba will both get get injured at same time, could really argue if Coloccini and Taylor got injured we would be f*cked, Tiote and Cabaye.( ok maybe not so much here but we would still suffer) etc etc. Personally i would rather buy an attacking RB than a striker and improve the first eleven than buy a back up striker. We do need both it's true, but buying a RB in the Debuchy mould is far more important than anything else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MW Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 ben arfa should be in bold He is. i know. i was agreeing with you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Anyway, I want us to sign Debuchy so I'm hardly saying I'm satisfied with the fullback options. If we could only make one more signing (not that I think it's that rigid) then I would like Debuchy. Irrespective of this, counting Campbell as anything other than one for the future is absolutely laughable IMO. And this is by no means a comment on his ability, obviously. If he hadn't got on for six minutes the other night he wouldn't have even been mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Well you've got Simpson, Perch and Raylor. Then obviously Santon can cover if we decided to play Ferguson left back. Not likely all them to be injured at same time. Everyone hates Simpson but he's still better than all our opinions of him, he does an average job in a good side and stands out like a sore thumb. However take Ba and Cisse out of our side, we are left with Shola. He now struggles to last 90 minutes with his inuries, let alone lead the line for at least a month with no back up on the bench. And now after his interview Anita, plus I'd not be devastated seeing Saylor or Tavs play. Liking the look of Tavernier a lot. Forgetting the personalities involved. I'm leaning towards us needing a decent striker over a full back. Why? We've got two decent strikers and we only usually play one up front. Like said yesterday the one key area we are still weak in the first 11 is right back (or left back if you move Santon to the right). I really believe two quality full backs could make a massive difference to our game. Papiss and Ba will be playing most games together, not rotated. With one or both occasionally out injured for periods (or going to the ACN), relying on a perpetually injured Shola as backup now that Best and Lovelypants have gone is just asking for trouble imho. Upgrading out rightback may be desirable, but if we don't, we have solid enough depth in those positions now. So you would rather improve the bench than the first team? righto I think we need a fullback more so than a striker, but not for this reason. Strikers and centre backs are difficult to replace if they are injured/suspended where as fullbacks are far easier to fill in with a temporary stopgap. We lose both Papis and Ba for any length of time and we're probably fucked. Bingo. I'd fucking love it if we brought in Debuchy, but it wouldn't be the end of the World if circumstance saw us having to wait for another window. I'll be sweating like a fat man all season if we fail to bring in any striking cover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 That list of full back options says it all really. That is where teams will target us because it's where we're weakest. You're looking at players who are limited at this level or playing out of position. We can adjust the balance of the team to protect the back four, and to an extent I think that's what Pardew did last season. The problem is then you're less of a threat at the other end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 That list of full back options says it all really. That is where teams will target us because it's where we're weakest. You're looking at players who are limited at this level or playing out of position. We can adjust the balance of the team to protect the back four, and to an extent I think that's what Pardew did last season. The problem is then you're less of a threat at the other end. Exactly. There's a massive difference between having options at full back and having genuine quality in that area. Why do people think Liverpool were so desperate to get Enrique off us? Players like him and Debuchy are almost as important for the work they do in midfield as they are in defence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I would like to see another CB come in. Can we really trust Steven Taylor to stay injury free, or consistent through a whole campaign? Still not completely sold on him as a full time starter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I would like to see another CB come in. Can we really trust Steven Taylor to stay injury free, or consistent through a whole campaign? Still not completely sold on him as a full time starter. Look at his history, of course we can't. He gets injured every year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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