Papiss Cissé

[Dave]

Worse and worse apart from the run of home wins after January without which we'd have been dead and buried. Definitely worse though.

[Hanshithispantz]

It comes down to confidence and form, Cisse had none last year, Ba did. I didn't think he was rubbish by any means but he definitely wasn't playing to the best of his ability.

 

The team being poor on the whole is a possible reason for that but a lot of the blame* obviously falls on Cisses' shoulders as well, on the flip side Ba was the star of the show and was putting away pretty much everything he touched, his confidence would have been sky high.

 

* I hate using the word blame mind, and it's been the use of that by people that has probably irked some and led to some of the massive debates in this thread.

[sugoinufc]

Worse and worse apart from the run of home wins after January without which we'd have been dead and buried. Definitely worse though.

 

true

[Unbelievable]

Sigh.. Cisse wasn't shifted out wide to accomodate Ba playing centrally. They both played centrally for the best part of the first half of the season. Only when it became apparent Ba was scoring goals and Cisse wasn't, we briefly went to a lone forward, where Ba was understandably preferred to lead the line, considering his form up until that point. Rather than Cisse being dropped outright, he played a few matches out wide, which didn't work out for him, but was worth a try imho. Only once was Cisse playing out wide really unforgiveable, and this was to accomodate Shola playing centrally straight after Ba had left, where Pardew came out with some grade A bollocks about having prepared a game plan all week long, and Shola replacing Ba was the easier transition. That was the match in which we should have put our trust in Cisse to be our main man and step out of Ba's shadow, and Pardew fucked it up.

[Dokko]

Sigh.. Cisse wasn't shifted out wide to accomodate Ba playing centrally. They both played centrally for the best part of the first half of the season. Only when it became apparent Ba was scoring goals and Cisse wasn't, we briefly went to a lone forward, where Ba was understandably preferred to lead the line, considering his form up until that point. Rather than Cisse being dropped outright, he played a few matches out wide, which didn't work out for him, but was worth a try imho. Only once was Cisse playing out wide really unforgiveable, and this was to accomodate Shola playing centrally straight after Ba had left, where Pardew came out with some grade A bollocks about having prepared a game plan all week long, and Shola replacing Ba was the easier transition. That was the match in which we should have put our trust in Cisse to be our main man and step out of Ba's shadow, and Pardew fucked it up.

 

Massively spot on that, for me anyway.

[The College Dropout]

Just saying, he was scoring when we were playing s**** so I don't know why Cisse would get a bye.

 

Fair enough, well Ba doesn't play for us any more so obviously the rules are different. 

 

Tbh i have come around to TT's line of thinking with regards to Cisse, genuinely do believe he needs competition and not just a partner.

 

Would look to sign someone pacey to stretch defences and someone who can hold the ball up. ( very unlikely i know)

 

But then again i don't really trust Pardew to rotate them properly if that happened.

I was happy we didn't sign Shane Long. But he's the type of useful player we need. His type would do well alongside Cisse.

[The College Dropout]

Ba scored 13 in 21 for a s*** team but it was 'completely unrealistic' to expect Cisse to score 20 in 47 for that same team. Okay.

 

 

Ba is better at making his own chances from scraps, not much doubt about that. Ba is probably a better player overall, doesn't stop Cisse being a top striker.

 

It does like.

[Dave]

Sigh.. Cisse wasn't shifted out wide to accomodate Ba playing centrally. They both played centrally for the best part of the first half of the season. Only when it became apparent Ba was scoring goals and Cisse wasn't, we briefly went to a lone forward, where Ba was understandably preferred to lead the line, considering his form up until that point. Rather than Cisse being dropped outright, he played a few matches out wide, which didn't work out for him, but was worth a try imho. Only once was Cisse playing out wide really unforgiveable, and this was to accomodate Shola playing centrally straight after Ba had left, where Pardew came out with some grade A bollocks about having prepared a game plan all week long, and Shola replacing Ba was the easier transition. That was the match in which we should have put our trust in Cisse to be our main man and step out of Ba's shadow, and Pardew fucked it up.

 

[The College Dropout]

Sigh.. Cisse wasn't shifted out wide to accomodate Ba playing centrally. They both played centrally for the best part of the first half of the season. Only when it became apparent Ba was scoring goals and Cisse wasn't, we briefly went to a lone forward, where Ba was understandably preferred to lead the line, considering his form up until that point. Rather than Cisse being dropped outright, he played a few matches out wide, which didn't work out for him, but was worth a try imho. Only once was Cisse playing out wide really unforgiveable, and this was to accomodate Shola playing centrally straight after Ba had left, where Pardew came out with some grade A bollocks about having prepared a game plan all week long, and Shola replacing Ba was the easier transition. That was the match in which we should have put our trust in Cisse to be our main man and step out of Ba's shadow, and Pardew f***ed it up.

 

Here, here. Very, very true.

 

People very quick to forget Demba being on the bench at Everton, then saving the day with a MoTM performance.

[Dave]

Where?

[Ronaldo]

I though Harper was MOTM against Everton, anyway.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's quite a weird subject to have such divided camps over, this Cisse thing. We've got a lethal striker who's 100% focused on getting goals whenever he plays, you would have thought Newcastle fans would absolutely love him.

[Jack Flash]

It's quite a weird subject to have such divided camps over, this Cisse thing. We've got a lethal striker who's 100% focused on getting goals whenever he plays, you would have thought Newcastle fans would absolutely love him.

 

Yep. I think we all agree he's a good/very good striker who had a bad year (for whatever reason) so the long debates are a bit pointless.

[Cronky]

It's quite a weird subject to have such divided camps over, this Cisse thing. We've got a lethal striker who's 100% focused on getting goals whenever he plays, you would have thought Newcastle fans would absolutely love him.

 

There seems to be much talk but little communication. I think there are two debates that get entangled.

 

The first is over how much you rate Cisse as a finisher.

 

The second is whether you think the situation will improve by providing Cisse with better ‘service’, or whether we need to rethink the strategy with a different type of striker.

 

[sugoinufc]

great and spectacular player - hope he stays here for a couple of seasons more.

 

 

[madras]

It's quite a weird subject to have such divided camps over, this Cisse thing. We've got a lethal striker who's 100% focused on getting goals whenever he plays, you would have thought Newcastle fans would absolutely love him.

haven't really been following, are many saying "get rid" or just that he had a poor season last season ?

[Sifu]

It's quite a weird subject to have such divided camps over, this Cisse thing. We've got a lethal striker who's 100% focused on getting goals whenever he plays, you would have thought Newcastle fans would absolutely love him.

haven't really been following, are many saying "get rid" or just that he had a poor season last season ?

 

It's more people saying that if a big money offer comes in for him that they would take it and let him go. I, for one, would prefer that he stays. One thing I hope they do with him is to sit him down and go through one of his games and tell him what he could do better (ie. doing things more simpler and staying onside).

[Lotus]

Some things he's good at and some things he's not. If we're going to utilise him then we will have to play to his strengths more. If that means changing the ethos and application of the team then you can see the sense if getting someone in who's more akin to what the manager wants/needs. Hardly rocket science.

[HawK]

Pretty much all the player threads revolve around players not being played to their strengths. How can a PL manager not realize what thousands can.

[Cronky]

Pretty much all the player threads revolve around players not being played to their strengths. How can a PL manager not realize what thousands can.

 

Perhaps the thousands are being a bit naïve. Playing to Cisse’s strengths isn’t that simple a matter.

 

The way I see it, at the top level, there’s a real problem with integrating a specialist finisher whose hold up and linking play isn’t that good. You can –

 

a) Play him with more of a target man, but then you have two players who are both looking for the same advanced, central position, albeit for different reasons.

 

b) Try a), but then ask one or the other to move into a secondary, withdrawn or wider role, but then you’re asking one of them to do something they’re not good at. That was the whole Ba / Cisse issue.

 

c) Ask the finisher to play as an all-round striker, which is what we seem to be doing at the moment, but that isn’t working well.

 

d) Don’t ask the finisher to do anything other than play on the shoulders of the CBs, and get the rest of the team to create chances for him. Trouble is, your system lacks the interchanging of positions that can help to open up a defence, and you can look a bit static. It can also feel like you’re playing with 10 men, particularly if you’re up against good opposition.

 

Apart from all that, to make plan d) worthwhile, your finisher has to put away a high percentage of the chances that come his way, and personally I don’t think Cisse’s conversion rate is good enough for that.

 

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I would say Cisse's general hold-up and link-up play is good enough, as distinct from his ability to beat CBs to hopeful punts.

[BrettNUFC]

I would say Cisse's general hold-up and link-up play is good enough, as distinct from his ability to beat CBs to hopeful punts.

 

The improvement in that department of his game the last 6 month was huge. Pardew deserves credit for his endless long ball tactic helping Cisse improve this part of his game.

[The College Dropout]

I would say Cisse's general hold-up and link-up play is good enough, as distinct from his ability to beat CBs to hopeful punts.

It's not man. Last season his hold-up play/link-up would be among the worst half of PL strikers in the league. Worst 6 imo. It's behind average strikers like Holt, Lambert or Long.

 

You really realise how Ba's link-up play is at Chelsea. He looks more dangerous and more of a goal-threat than Torres. But Torres overall game is so much better but it sometimes looks like they are playing without a striker. Cisse's link-up is certainly worse than Ba's.

[Unbelievable]

Pretty much all the player threads revolve around players not being played to their strengths. How can a PL manager not realize what thousands can.

 

Perhaps the thousands are being a bit naïve. Playing to Cisse’s strengths isn’t that simple a matter.

 

The way I see it, at the top level, there’s a real problem with integrating a specialist finisher whose hold up and linking play isn’t that good. You can –

 

a) Play him with more of a target man, but then you have two players who are both looking for the same advanced, central position, albeit for different reasons.

 

b) Try a), but then ask one or the other to move into a secondary, withdrawn or wider role, but then you’re asking one of them to do something they’re not good at. That was the whole Ba / Cisse issue.

 

c) Ask the finisher to play as an all-round striker, which is what we seem to be doing at the moment, but that isn’t working well.

 

d) Don’t ask the finisher to do anything other than play on the shoulders of the CBs, and get the rest of the team to create chances for him. Trouble is, your system lacks the interchanging of positions that can help to open up a defence, and you can look a bit static. It can also feel like you’re playing with 10 men, particularly if you’re up against good opposition.

 

Apart from all that, to make plan d) worthwhile, your finisher has to put away a high percentage of the chances that come his way, and personally I don’t think Cisse’s conversion rate is good enough for that.

 

 

 

 

Exactly as I see it.

[The College Dropout]

We don't have a good enough team for that. Currently, no good side even plays like that.