Segun Oluwaniyi Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 There is a certain sadness when watching Cisse play the game recently. For all the capabilities displayed immediately after his arrivial, he is providing absolutely nothing for the team. Not one positive attribute. Cannot hold the ball up, cannot control the ball played to feet, cannot make runs that stay onside, cannot complete short passes back to the midfielders, cannot win headers, cannot out pace even the most pedestrian defenders, cannot hold off even the weakest of midfield challengers. When the good work of other players provides an opportunity for the great finisher to score he fails to convert. I feel the same way about him as I do about Debuchy in this moment. I think both players can potentially be very useful for us, but both also need to dropped. There is no question and no other option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Fine, I don't agree, until we see them both in this league and they have more than a single good season. In his one full season in the Premiership Lukaku has scored 1 in 2 in a lower league team. Gomis has a long term 1 in 3 record for a comparatively speaking better team(s) in a comparatively speaking lower quality league. I know who I'd rather have in my team. Why are you comparing a short term record to a long term record? Like I said Lukaku will very likely be on another level, but saying doesn't change the inherent lack of logic in comparing a recent record to a long term record.. Also never said I wouldn't prefer to have Lakaku, I said I'm very unsure of the claim that he's currently on another level to Gomis. Well, since one of the player is only just 20 years old it's pretty difficult to compare long term records.. I am aware that there is some subjectivity in the statement that Lukaku is already head and shoulders above a player like Gomis, but I truly believe that to be the case and I think the prior's short record (for obvious reasons) backs that up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 You don't need to look at Lukaku's long term record, you could merely compare both players recent records I don't even know what they are, but I know that apples and oranges aren't comparable. My point is we don't have enough of a record for Lukaku to currently say he's on another level, that's just my opinion though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Well you're the one who just said you don't know what age has to do with it My point is that very fact, we don't have enough of a record for Lakaku to currently say he's on another level, that's just my opinion though. Heh, YOU are the one who brought age into it, did you not? Was it impossible for us to be the ones to loan Lukaku? No, but normally you need to try to some degree in order to have a chance. To be fair Gomis from what I've seen from him is a similar type of player, albeit obviously not at the same level. As you say though, it was painfully obvious we needed another striker, somebody who could give us something different to what we have, yet we failed to act decisively once again, even though the players were quite clearly available.. Taking their age into consideration they aren't the same level, but I wouldn't say right now Lakaku is on another level to Gomis, not at all IMO. I suppose we'll see for sure when/if he comes here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 You don't need to look at Lakaku's long term record, you could merely compare both players recent records I don't even know what they are, but I know that apples and oranges aren't comparable. I'm out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Heh, YOU are the one who brought age into it, did you not? Right, and you're the one who said you don't know what age has to do with it.. Look we're getting into semantics now. My point was that while Lukaku could be considered on another level due to the fact he is at such a high level at such a young age (as in comparative to age he's on another level) I'm really not sure he's currently that much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 You might as well be out because I feel like I'm talking to someone who isn't all there anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Right, and you're the one who said you don't know what age has to do with it.. Look we're getting into semantics now. My point was that while Lukaku could be considered on another level due to the fact he is at such a high level at such a young age (as in comparative to age he's on another level) I'm really noy sure he's currently that much better. And that's fine. I just don't know how by your logic you could ever compare two players' performances and conclude who is the better player, considering they may play in different countries, leagues, teams, matches, etc. Objectively, Lukaku's record last season was better than Gomis' for goals per league match. Subjectively, I'd say it's fair to suggest level of Premiership > level of Ligue 1 and WBA's standing in its league < Lyon's standing in its league. For that reason, and the mere fact Lukaku was already one of this league's top goalscorers and Gomis has never even played in this league, I don't think it's mad in any way to suggest Lukaku is already the better player. Yes, I can't prove it, but then neither can you prove that Messi is a better player than Dan Gosling if you don't think comparing players makes sense at any level. All that said, I'd take either ahead of Cisse to lead the line for NUFC at this point in time. Sadly, and this is all that matters in the end, we can't, because we failed to get either, or anybody else who could have provided competition for places and something a bit more complete up top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Ok, I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer Lukaku even on current ability no matter the age. I would prefer Lukaku even if they were both the same age right now. But I can't say I believe Lukaku is on another level right now that's all, as in head and shoulders above him. Again if you think so ok but I don't see enough to believe that personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 He's been f*cking awful for ages.... in his position the CF needs to hold the ball and link play as well as make intelligent runs. Cisse does none of that and thus f*cking useless. Thank you Mole. We have debated back and forth for months but finally you understand. Holding the ball-up, linking play is a minimum for a player in his position. Otherwise he needs to be fucking lethal. He's not lethal. And he can't do anything else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Dangerously missed by the club this season was the fact we needed another striker not just as cover for Cisse but also to possibly replace him as he's been out of form for quite some time now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 He's been f*cking awful for ages.... in his position the CF needs to hold the ball and link play as well as make intelligent runs. Cisse does none of that and thus f*cking useless. Thank you Mole. We have debated back and forth for months but finally you understand. Holding the ball-up, linking play is a minimum for a player in his position. Otherwise he needs to be f***ing lethal. He's not lethal. And he can't do anything else. What i was saying was i don't think we need a target man type... and still don't although it wouldn't hurt. He definitely needs to do all those things and he isn't. Also Baba agree with every word. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Forgot to say also, Cisse must play and must score vs Leeds or else i feel he needs dropping for Everton away. Sounds harsh but it's got to that point now where he's not contributing anything to the team really. Too many times the ball was played into him today just to simply control and link up the play and he either lost it or tried to simply pass it back and sent it out of play causing the whole team to have to move back down the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCW1983 Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 His first touch is fucking woeful, at fault for their first goal today IMO (although it was preventable after his woeful pass to Steve Bruce) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 People are seriously underestimating Gouffran's ability to play uptop alone, which he did really well his last two seasons in France. Please don't mention Morecambe, as the team was completely rubbish, and they werent even getting the ball upfront to him at all. If he comes into this current team for Cisse, he will shock the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Aye, this lad doesn't deserve to start at this stage. Not sold on Gouffran as the main man at all, but he can't be much worse. If only we'd bought another striker in the summer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Forgot to say also, Cisse must play and must score vs Leeds or else i feel he needs dropping for Everton away. Sounds harsh but it's got to that point now where he's not contributing anything to the team really. Too many times the ball was played into him today just to simply control and link up the play and he either lost it or tried to simply pass it back and sent it out of play causing the whole team to have to move back down the pitch. I really don't get the idea of setting a deadline by which he must score. Suppose he's crap against Leeds but manages to get a tap in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 When Cissé went off, Gouffran replaced him up front. Gouffran managed to hold the ball up a few times when it was punted up to him. He also linked up a couple of times with Remy. I'd possibly play Cissé against Leeds. If he looks no better I'd drop him for Gouffran. Cissé hasn't been in good form since the end of the 2011/2012 season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matta Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Shit for a year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 He was doing well up until the derby in the spring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Forgot to say also, Cisse must play and must score vs Leeds or else i feel he needs dropping for Everton away. Sounds harsh but it's got to that point now where he's not contributing anything to the team really. Too many times the ball was played into him today just to simply control and link up the play and he either lost it or tried to simply pass it back and sent it out of play causing the whole team to have to move back down the pitch. I really don't get the idea of setting a deadline by which he must score. Suppose he's crap against Leeds but manages to get a tap in? That would be fine. I really think he just needs a goal, tap in or not, just to get some confidence back. That chance he had with a header that he mistimed yesterday is an example of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Its not a lack of confidence its a lack of desire, every time he got the ball ge got rid of it instant lay off usually backwards, my main worry is that it looked deliberate. I think he feels he is done here and wants away, no point playing him if he has no interest. Anyway a front three of Goufran Remy Benny looks much more of a threat and is full of pace. Like Anita I think a good run of starts in a front three will benefit Goufran loads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Still looks like a player who doesn't want to be here, which is an opinion that was widely ridiculed on here during the summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Gouffran's shown his better through the middle and Remy's clearly a massive threat on the left. So what does Skirge suggest? Oh, and Cisse's playing badly deliberately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Wan't aware I posted a formation, just listed the three strikers we should play in a front three. Although I think there is no need in playing them in a rigid order, letting them swap around will make it much harder for the opposition to pick them up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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