Rangers Newco

[madras]

it doesn't matter if the people who done it are still there, just like it doesn't matter if barclays management leave en masse, it's the company that carries the can.

Only Barclays AREN'T "carrying the can" are they ?

And are those responsible being punished or getting a golden handshake as they walk into another equally high paying job ?

Better example needed, I think

the example is that when a company fucks up it's the company that carries the can, they can't use the excuse of "oh the person that done it doesn't work here anymore". i used barclays but could've used tesco, Formica or B and Q anywhere. heres a more basic example. componies are getting done over mis-selling of PPI, it doesn't matter if the people doing the mis-selling still work there or not.

[Guest Phil K]

You can't compare Rangers and Dundee, because Dundee actually agreed a CVA with their creditors. The Dundee FC of 2012 are the same club that have been around since 1893. The Rangers that will play in Division Three next season are not the same club that finished the 2011-12 season.

I bow to your greater knowledge on the subject.

To an outsider, it just seemed both were similar.

Just baffled by the never ending partying over their demise.

Can't abide them, as I said just baffled at the non-stop partying over it

 

the example is that when a company f***s up it's the company that carries the can, they can't use the excuse of "oh the person that done it doesn't work here anymore". i used barclays but could've used tesco, Formica or B and Q anywhere. heres a more basic example. componies are getting done over mis-selling of PPI, it doesn't matter if the people doing the mis-selling still work there or not.

 

But thats just it - it ISN'T the same across the board, is it ?

(God almighty - I never thought I'd see the day when I was defending one of Glasgow's "bigot clubs"....  )

[David Icke - Son of God]

Football clubs do seem to be punished far worse than ordinary companies, certainly not the "big companies" and even LESS where banks are concerned.

Whether you go back to Thiord Lanark, or Gateshead (who were apparently disgracefully thrown out of league - never found out why) up to the way Luton was treated, and Portsmouth too Although there seems to be an awfully diifferent attitude to Portsmouth for some reason, though they have been docked again this season haven't they ?

 

Gateshead were voted out of the league by the other clubs. A fairly standard event back then.

 

HMRC certainly wouldn't agree that football clubs are badly treated. Most ordinary companies are much, much better run than your average football clubs.

[madras]

Football clubs do seem to be punished far worse than ordinary companies, certainly not the "big companies" and even LESS where banks are concerned.

Whether you go back to Thiord Lanark, or Gateshead (who were apparently disgracefully thrown out of league - never found out why) up to the way Luton was treated, and Portsmouth too Although there seems to be an awfully diifferent attitude to Portsmouth for some reason, though they have been docked again this season haven't they ?

gateshead weren't thrown out, they were voted out and football clubs seem to be better treat in the ammount of debt they can carry compared to similar sized businesses.

[Guest Phil K]

Gateshead were voted out of the league by the other clubs. A fairly standard event back then.

 

HMRC certainly wouldn't agree that football clubs are badly treated. Most ordinary companies are much, much better run than your average football clubs.

Yes, but they didn't even finish bottom - wasn't that so ? (Sure my dad told me. Got it from somewhere)

As for footie clubs not being well run.

I think we can all agree on that.

Man U being in deep debt for example - HOW ?

 

[NewJerseyMag]

Football clubs do seem to be punished far worse than ordinary companies, certainly not the "big companies" and even LESS where banks are concerned.

Whether you go back to Thiord Lanark, or Gateshead (who were apparently disgracefully thrown out of league - never found out why) up to the way Luton was treated, and Portsmouth too Although there seems to be an awfully diifferent attitude to Portsmouth for some reason, though they have been docked again this season haven't they ?

 

It seems to me its the fans that carry the can. That is how football clubs are different.

 

If a company goes under, likely you would be able to buy a similar product elsewhere.

 

Not so easy when your team goes under...... not so easy to go and support someone else.

[madras]

Gateshead were voted out of the league by the other clubs. A fairly standard event back then.

 

HMRC certainly wouldn't agree that football clubs are badly treated. Most ordinary companies are much, much better run than your average football clubs.

Yes, but they didn't even finish bottom - wasn't that so ? (Sure my dad told me. Got it from somewhere)

As for footie clubs not being well run.

I think we can all agree on that.

 

the bottom 4 used to get voted on. they weren't the only club to be voted out after not finishing bottom and i think hatlepool(s) hold the record for being re-elected after finishing bottom.

[David Icke - Son of God]

You can't compare Rangers and Dundee, because Dundee actually agreed a CVA with their creditors. The Dundee FC of 2012 are the same club that have been around since 1893. The Rangers that will play in Division Three next season are not the same club that finished the 2011-12 season.

I bow to your greater knowledge on the subject.

To an outsider, it just seemed both were similar.

Just baffled by the never ending partying over their demise.

Can't abide them, as I said just baffled at the non-stop partying over it

 

 

You probably should've read up on it before you came in here and started throwing a hissy over a club you apparently can't abide

 

The only comparable case was Livingston, who were liquidated and relegated to D3 a few years ago so there is a precedent for what is happening to Rangers.

[madras]

Gateshead were voted out of the league by the other clubs. A fairly standard event back then.

 

HMRC certainly wouldn't agree that football clubs are badly treated. Most ordinary companies are much, much better run than your average football clubs.

Yes, but they didn't even finish bottom - wasn't that so ? (Sure my dad told me. Got it from somewhere)

As for footie clubs not being well run.

I think we can all agree on that.

Man U being in deep debt for example - HOW ?

 

re man utd, because they have the turnover to manage that debt.

[Guest Phil K]

the bottom 4 used to get voted on. they weren't the only club to be voted out after not finishing bottom and i think hatlepool(s) hold the record for being re-elected after finishing bottom.

I actually recall reading something in The Journal I think it was, donkeys ago (80's ?) that said Gateshead WERE the only club kicked out after not finishing bottom. But of course, memory and all that....maybe on the net somewhere. Maybe I misread it.

Anyways. Doesn't matter.

3 years ago in Majorca I almost came to blows with a Rangers fan and his ludicrous attitude to Newcastle.

And the ridiculous thing was, it was a CELTIC fan sitting with him who was backing him up (You know - the "Newcastle fans are deluded" crap)

So maybe I should be JOINING the partying !!! 

 

re man utd, because they have the turnover to manage that debt.

If that was true, there wouldn't BE a debt crisis, surely ?

[Rosenrot]

I think what has happened to Rangers is very unfair. If Mike Ashley had been doing some illegal shit and we ended up getting regulated to god knows what league with uncertainty of our history and almost all our players, I'd be certainly pissed off and I'm sure most of you would to. I think regulation should only happen due to footballing performance, not due to anything else.

 

Rangers have already had their european place taken off them, prize money deducted, fined, lost most of their players for nothing and regulated to division 3 and also agreed to a transfer embargo. What more punishment do people want?

 

Football is about football at the most fundamental level, and Rangers is a massive footballing institution in Scotland. Their fans do not deserve this.

[madras]

the bottom 4 used to get voted on. they weren't the only club to be voted out after not finishing bottom and i think hatlepool(s) hold the record for being re-elected after finishing bottom.

I actually recall reading something in The Journal I think it was, donkeys ago (80's ?) that said Gateshead WERE the only club kicked out after not finishing bottom. But of course, memory and all that....maybe on the net somewhere. Maybe I misread it.

Anyways. Doesn't matter.

3 years ago in Majorca I almost came to blows with a Rangers fan and his ludicrous attitude to Newcastle.

And the ridiculous thing was, it was a CELTIC fan sitting with him who was backing him up (You know - the "Newcastle fans are deluded" crap)

So maybe I should be JOINING the partying !!! 

 

re man utd, because they have the turnover to manage that debt.

If that was true, there wouldn't BE a debt crisis, surely ?

took some searching but at least one other (newport county 1930-31) were elected out after finsihing second bottom. i;m not partying at rangers demise but feel they've got what they deserve and would feel exactly the same way about any club except NUFC.

[loki679]

I think what has happened to Rangers is very unfair. If Mike Ashley had been doing some illegal s*** and we ended up getting regulated to god knows what league with uncertainty of our history and almost all our players, I'd be certainly p*ssed off and I'm sure most of you would to. I think regulation should only happen due to footballing performance, not due to anything else.

 

Rangers have already had their european place taken off them, prize money deducted, fined, lost most of their players for nothing and regulated to division 3 and also agreed to a transfer embargo. What more punishment do people want?

 

Football is about football at the most fundamental level, and Rangers is a massive footballing institution in Scotland. Their fans do not deserve this.

 

Well, no they haven't.  'Rangers' were an SPL club who are undergoing liquidation.  Their place in the SPL has been taken by another team as they were unable to fulfil their fixtures.  'Sevco' are a new club who have been accepted into the SFL in division 3 like any other new club applying to play in the SFL.  They can't play in europe because they don't have the required 3 years of accounts.  They haven't been relegated.  'Rangers' were fined but that fine will never be paid and any prize money they were due will go towards paying their creditors.

[David Icke - Son of God]

I think what has happened to Rangers is very unfair. If Mike Ashley had been doing some illegal shit and we ended up getting regulated to god knows what league with uncertainty of our history and almost all our players, I'd be certainly pissed off and I'm sure most of you would to. I think regulation should only happen due to footballing performance, not due to anything else.

 

Rangers have already had their european place taken off them, prize money deducted, fined, lost most of their players for nothing and regulated to division 3 and also agreed to a transfer embargo. What more punishment do people want?

 

Football is about football at the most fundamental level, and Rangers is a massive footballing institution in Scotland. Their fans do not deserve this.

 

Rangers fans have conducted themselves very well throughout this entire saga. They're the only group involved who have said they should take their medicine and start in Division Three.

 

I have sympathy with them, but at the end of the day it's not just that their previous owners have been doing something illegal. The current situation has arisen because they've simply accrued a massive tax bill and are unable to pay it resulting in liquidation. Rulings haven't even been made on the legality of the EBTs and the big tax case. Green is arguing that newco Rangers shouldn't have to suffer further punishment because of the actions of the previous owners which is an understandable position until you realise he's quite happy to claim the history of the old club, including the titles that have been won when they were effectively financially doping.

[madras]

I think what has happened to Rangers is very unfair. If Mike Ashley had been doing some illegal s*** and we ended up getting regulated to god knows what league with uncertainty of our history and almost all our players, I'd be certainly p*ssed off and I'm sure most of you would to. I think regulation should only happen due to footballing performance, not due to anything else.

 

Rangers have already had their european place taken off them, prize money deducted, fined, lost most of their players for nothing and regulated to division 3 and also agreed to a transfer embargo. What more punishment do people want?

 

Football is about football at the most fundamental level, and Rangers is a massive footballing institution in Scotland. Their fans do not deserve this.

 

Rangers fans have conducted themselves very well throughout this entire saga. They're the only group involved who have said they should take their medicine and start in Division Three.

 

I have sympathy with them, but at the end of the day it's not just that their previous owners have been doing something illegal. The current situation has arisen because they've simply accrued a massive tax bill and are unable to pay it resulting in liquidation. Rulings haven't even been made on the legality of the EBTs and the big tax case. Green is arguing that newco Rangers shouldn't have to suffer further punishment because of the actions of the previous owners which is an understandable position until you realise he's quite happy to claim the history of the old club, including the titles that have been won when they were effectively financially doping.

some of their fans have, i know of others who see it all as a plot against them and they are being unfairly picked on.

[Guest neesy111]

I think what has happened to Rangers is very unfair. If Mike Ashley had been doing some illegal s*** and we ended up getting regulated to god knows what league with uncertainty of our history and almost all our players, I'd be certainly p*ssed off and I'm sure most of you would to. I think regulation should only happen due to footballing performance, not due to anything else.

 

Rangers have already had their european place taken off them, prize money deducted, fined, lost most of their players for nothing and regulated to division 3 and also agreed to a transfer embargo. What more punishment do people want?

 

Football is about football at the most fundamental level, and Rangers is a massive footballing institution in Scotland. Their fans do not deserve this.

 

Rangers fans have conducted themselves very well throughout this entire saga. They're the only group involved who have said they should take their medicine and start in Division Three.

 

I have sympathy with them, but at the end of the day it's not just that their previous owners have been doing something illegal. The current situation has arisen because they've simply accrued a massive tax bill and are unable to pay it resulting in liquidation. Rulings haven't even been made on the legality of the EBTs and the big tax case. Green is arguing that newco Rangers shouldn't have to suffer further punishment because of the actions of the previous owners which is an understandable position until you realise he's quite happy to claim the history of the old club, including the titles that have been won when they were effectively financially doping.

some of their fans have, i know of others who see it all as a plot against them and they are being unfairly picked on.

 

Well the couple I have, purely believed they wouldn't get relegated because it will kill off scottish football.  Some arrogance that.

[jdckelly]

I think what has happened to Rangers is very unfair. If Mike Ashley had been doing some illegal shit and we ended up getting regulated to god knows what league with uncertainty of our history and almost all our players, I'd be certainly pissed off and I'm sure most of you would to. I think regulation should only happen due to footballing performance, not due to anything else.

 

Rangers have already had their european place taken off them, prize money deducted, fined, lost most of their players for nothing and regulated to division 3 and also agreed to a transfer embargo. What more punishment do people want?

 

Football is about football at the most fundamental level, and Rangers is a massive footballing institution in Scotland. Their fans do not deserve this.

 

Rangers fans have conducted themselves very well throughout this entire saga. They're the only group involved who have said they should take their medicine and start in Division Three.

 

I have sympathy with them, but at the end of the day it's not just that their previous owners have been doing something illegal. The current situation has arisen because they've simply accrued a massive tax bill and are unable to pay it resulting in liquidation. Rulings haven't even been made on the legality of the EBTs and the big tax case. Green is arguing that newco Rangers shouldn't have to suffer further punishment because of the actions of the previous owners which is an understandable position until you realise he's quite happy to claim the history of the old club, including the titles that have been won when they were effectively financially doping.

there's a part of me that thinks they were so ready to accept division 3 was in part to kinda spite the SFA and SPL as in "lets see how you do without us then"

[henke]

There's some weird reactions here. And this "i'd be amazed if Celtic weren't up to the same tricks" theory is just absurd. There's a few people expressed that feeling, why would you think Celtic are guilty of fiddling their taxes any more than NUFC for example?

[David Icke - Son of God]

There's some weird reactions here. And this "i'd be amazed if Celtic weren't up to the same tricks" theory is just absurd. There's a few people expressed that feeling, why would you think Celtic are guilty of fiddling their taxes any more than NUFC for example?

 

Celtic were up to the same thing as were a few other clubs in England (Arsenal were one, IIRC) but they all cut deals and paid their tax back in full. Rangers had been at it for so long and it was so entrenched in the way the club was ran that they couldn't afford to pay what HMRC claimed was owed to them in tax so they challenged it (hence the big tax case).

[NewJerseyMag]

There's some weird reactions here. And this "i'd be amazed if Celtic weren't up to the same tricks" theory is just absurd. There's a few people expressed that feeling, why would you think Celtic are guilty of fiddling their taxes any more than NUFC for example?

 

Celtic were up to the same thing as were a few other clubs in England (Arsenal were one, IIRC) but they all cut deals and paid their tax back in full. Rangers had been at it for so long and it was so entrenched in the way the club was ran that they couldn't afford to pay what HMRC claimed was owed to them in tax so they challenged it (hence the big tax case).

 

I thought that we were being looked at too at one point?

 

Celtic have admitted they used an EBT for Juninho.

 

These 2 have been trying to outspend each other for years, such is there hatred for one another. Both of them have overspent in the attempt to draw a higher standard of player into what is in essence a poor league.

[Rosenrot]

I think what has happened to Rangers is very unfair. If Mike Ashley had been doing some illegal s*** and we ended up getting regulated to god knows what league with uncertainty of our history and almost all our players, I'd be certainly p*ssed off and I'm sure most of you would to. I think regulation should only happen due to footballing performance, not due to anything else.

 

Rangers have already had their european place taken off them, prize money deducted, fined, lost most of their players for nothing and regulated to division 3 and also agreed to a transfer embargo. What more punishment do people want?

 

Football is about football at the most fundamental level, and Rangers is a massive footballing institution in Scotland. Their fans do not deserve this.

 

Well, no they haven't.  'Rangers' were an SPL club who are undergoing liquidation.  Their place in the SPL has been taken by another team as they were unable to fulfil their fixtures.  'Sevco' are a new club who have been accepted into the SFL in division 3 like any other new club applying to play in the SFL.  They can't play in europe because they don't have the required 3 years of accounts.  They haven't been relegated.  'Rangers' were fined but that fine will never be paid and any prize money they were due will go towards paying their creditors.

 

But that's rubbish. Football is more than just legal entities. It is not another team, it is still Rangers, it still has the manager, the fans, the badge, the history. Saying it is another team is rubbish. I don't accept that at all. If the company 'Newcastle United' went under, the club would still exist. A football club is an idea and a culture created by the fans, Sir Bobby understood this.

 

This is why fans should own their own football clubs.

[loki679]

But that's rubbish. Football is more than just legal entities. It is not another team, it is still Rangers, it still has the manager, the fans, the badge, the history. Saying it is another team is rubbish. I don't accept that at all. If the company 'Newcastle United' went under, the club would still exist. A football club is an idea and a culture created by the fans, Sir Bobby understood this.

 

This is why fans should own their own football clubs.

 

Fine, then they are responsible for their debts and need to be punished for cheating their way to league titles and cups.  Cant have it both ways.

[Toonpack]

I think what has happened to Rangers is very unfair. If Mike Ashley had been doing some illegal s*** and we ended up getting regulated to god knows what league with uncertainty of our history and almost all our players, I'd be certainly p*ssed off and I'm sure most of you would to. I think regulation should only happen due to footballing performance, not due to anything else.

 

Rangers have already had their european place taken off them, prize money deducted, fined, lost most of their players for nothing and regulated to division 3 and also agreed to a transfer embargo. What more punishment do people want?

 

Football is about football at the most fundamental level, and Rangers is a massive footballing institution in Scotland. Their fans do not deserve this.

 

Rangers have not been punished at all yet, all that has happened is a consequence of their actions.

 

-10 points administration

 

Europe - they are not "banned" they do not qualify for a licence

 

Fine- The verdict of the appelate tribunal was that what they did was "just one step down from match fixing" and so they came up with the transfer embargo (at a time Rangers were in admin) They will soon be in liquidation (they're not yet) and will cease to be.

 

Sevco 5088 - bought their assetts (for a paltry sum) and they aslo bought their goodwill (history) They cannot just keep the good bits.

 

They were not relegated, they're still in Admin, a whole "new" club started up and has been allowed to join Div 3 (ahead of others that properly qualify).

 

The Dual Contracts investigation must go ahead, it appears they have been playing ineligible players for years (maybe up to 20 years).

 

The fans always pay the price, but in this case, the fans have enjoyed success that was won by nailed on cheating and they just don't seem to "get" that.

 

They are lucky they may still have a club to support.

 

They still owe other clubs money for players and yet (as in the Jelavic case) the new club expect to pocket the money that Everton still owe them but they don't want to pay Rapid Vienna, they owe Hearts £800K for Lee Wallace, who has transfreered over oldco to Newco, how's that work ?? They have a player that they never even paid for.

 

Not to mention the £120 Mill of debt owed to businesses big and small and HMRC, what about those folk. They're losing out big time in some cases yet that's OK !!!

 

They made their bed and need to learn some humility and contrition.

 

The fans didn't cause any of it, but enjoyed the benefits of it (in success terms).

[Raconteur]

I think what has happened to Rangers is very unfair. If Mike Ashley had been doing some illegal s*** and we ended up getting regulated to god knows what league with uncertainty of our history and almost all our players, I'd be certainly p*ssed off and I'm sure most of you would to. I think regulation should only happen due to footballing performance, not due to anything else.

 

Rangers have already had their european place taken off them, prize money deducted, fined, lost most of their players for nothing and regulated to division 3 and also agreed to a transfer embargo. What more punishment do people want?

 

Football is about football at the most fundamental level, and Rangers is a massive footballing institution in Scotland. Their fans do not deserve this.

 

Rangers have not been punished at all yet, all that has happened is a consequence of their actions.

 

-10 points administration

 

Europe - they are not "banned" they do not qualify for a licence

 

Fine- The verdict of the appelate tribunal was that what they did was "just one step down from match fixing" and so they came up with the transfer embargo (at a time Rangers were in admin) They will soon be in liquidation (they're not yet) and will cease to be.

 

Sevco 5088 - bought their assetts (for a paltry sum) and they aslo bought their goodwill (history) They cannot just keep the good bits.

 

They were not relegated, they're still in Admin, a whole "new" club started up and has been allowed to join Div 3 (ahead of others that properly qualify).

 

The Dual Contracts investigation must go ahead, it appears they have been playing ineligible players for years (maybe up to 20 years).

 

The fans always pay the price, but in this case, the fans have enjoyed success that was won by nailed on cheating and they just don't seem to "get" that.

 

They are lucky they may still have a club to support.

 

They still owe other clubs money for players and yet (as in the Jelavic case) the new club expect to pocket the money that Everton still owe them but they don't want to pay Rapid Vienna, they owe Hearts £800K for Lee Wallace, who has transfreered over oldco to Newco, how's that work ?? They have a player that they never even paid for.

 

Not to mention the £120 Mill of debt owed to businesses big and small and HMRC, what about those folk. They're losing out big time in some cases yet that's OK !!!

 

They made their bed and need to learn some humility and contrition.

 

The fans didn't cause any of it, but enjoyed the benefits of it (in success terms).

[Tiresias]

What needs to happen is genuine stringent control over who owns a football club, and strong fan involvement in the running of all clubs. Until that happens shit like this can happen. Rangers were cheating for years, and it would only be unfair if another club were treated differently. Would any other club have all that effort taken to bring them straight back into the top or second league?

 

It is also a sign that Rangers were essentially cheating to compete in the 2 club league that the SPL was. This was deeply unhealthy and this was a symptom of that, a healthy league is a competitive one, something that was lost when the whole league was organised to maximise revenue for Rangers and Celtic.