BottledDog Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'd be a lot more confident that the players were playing for the manager if we were managing to grind some draws out of these poor showings but we're not even managing that, just going from defeat to inevitable defeat. Isn't it often said that the best indicator of spirit in a camp is the ability to come from behind? Well Pardew is unprecedented in how unbelievably bad he is at that. I've never known anything like it. shola on the the last 25 mintues and go even longer when we have not won one single header in their penalty area all match. That is how clueless he is. It really nails it for me! We barely hoofed it all game and the hoofing didn't really increase when Shola came on. Some people just make their mind up before the game and with each substitution without even watching the game properly. This is how I saw it TBH. I was disappointed to see HBA go off, but that seems to be down to his return from injury, which it's sensible to manage. I would have probably gone for Marveaux rather than Shola like, but in the game overall we didn't hoof it excessively at all. Bang on. I'm sure this 'seeing what you want to see' works both ways, but in last few games the players have stopped panicking and resorting to hoofing, and I'm actually positive and getting close to enjoying elements of or performances again (if not the results bar Wigan). The Shola sub was really disappointing at the time though as we were doing ok and could have gone with a like for like, I think we can all agree on that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 In after thought, I really think Pardew did what he could until swapping HBA out of the game. You could tell Tiote had gotten a telling after the ambitious misspasses in the first half and he was far more conservative in the second. We did try to pass it around, but that kind of game doesn't come naturally after such a dreadfull run with players low on confidence. Especially when you have some very static players in the mix aswell as some who can't string a few passes together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 In after thought, I really think Pardew did what he could until swapping HBA out of the game. You could tell Tiote had gotten a telling after the ambitious misspasses in the first half and he was far more conservative in the second. We did try to pass it around, but that kind of game doesn't come naturally after such a dreadfull run with players low on confidence. Especially when you have some very static players in the mix aswell as some who can't string a few passes together. I think those players are perfectly capable of stringing passes together, but they need practice sessions geared to passing football. I think the manager has to accept responsibility for that. There's signs that a shift in thinking has gradually dawned on him, but he needs to believe in it and run with it 100%. Then we might still see the football this squad is capable of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The Fullham game reminded me of just how poor we can look defensively when our midfield is in front of the ball instead of behind it. I can undestand if not condone why Pardew looks for it to be hit long more times than not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The Fullham game reminded me of just how poor we can look defensively when our midfield is in front of the ball instead of behind it. I can undestand if not condone why Pardew looks for it to be hit long more times than not. It's quite possible to keep players behind the ball and still keep the ball on the deck. The good counter-attacking teams do it very well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Before we have a distinct style and method of play throughout all levels we need to have one for the first team. The way we focus on stopping and countering the opposition means that we can't have our own distinct way of playing because we play different teams requiring different strategies every game. The number of times we change formation during games is symptomatic of this, we're trying to stifle the other team and nullify their gameplan rather than impose our own upon them. Until this changes we're fucked imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The Fullham game reminded me of just how poor we can look defensively when our midfield is in front of the ball instead of behind it. I can undestand if not condone why Pardew looks for it to be hit long more times than not. It's quite possible to keep players behind the ball and still keep the ball on the deck. The good counter-attacking teams do it very well. I don't disagree and I've been advocating a counter-attacking setup for months. Not easy to achieve with Cabaye's absence, Jonas being totally finished and the problems up front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I would love to know what happened to Jonas post-Keegan era, as he looked a really good player in his first few appearances but right now besides work-rate, he offers next to nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The Fullham game reminded me of just how poor we can look defensively when our midfield is in front of the ball instead of behind it. I can undestand if not condone why Pardew looks for it to be hit long more times than not. It's quite possible to keep players behind the ball and still keep the ball on the deck. The good counter-attacking teams do it very well. I don't disagree and I've been advocating a counter-attacking setup for months. Not easy to achieve with Cabaye's absence, Jonas being totally finished and the problems up front. We were playing even more long ball when Cabaye was in the team. There's no need to play either Jonas or two centre forwards in the same team if you can't figure out how to make them gel. These are all managerial errors. I'd suggest that with 3 midfielders in Tiote, Anita and Cabaye/Jonas we have a very good base to play a counter attacking team with the ball kept on the floor. Then you could have a front 3 from Marveaux, HBA and Cisse/Ba to provide the counter attacks. He's got plenty to work with if he uses it right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I would love to know what happened to Jonas post-Keegan era, as he looked a really good player in his first few appearances but right now besides work-rate, he offers next to nothing. Age? Fatigue? Looks to have put on some muscle? Guess is as good as mine. Just clearly looks like every single year we've had him, he's looked less and less the player we signed. And seriously, just re-watch his Man Utd match the season we signed him. His pace and dribbling looks a shadow of what it used to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Little competition for places? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I've said this before but Stoke make you change your game plan. Their style is imposed and you will have to deal with it. For us. If Ba has a bad day & HBA is quiet. That's it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I would love to know what happened to Jonas post-Keegan era, as he looked a really good player in his first few appearances but right now besides work-rate, he offers next to nothing. Age? Fatigue? Looks to have put on some muscle? Guess is as good as mine. Just clearly looks like every single year we've had him, he's looked less and less the player we signed. And seriously, just re-watch his Man Utd match the season we signed him. His pace and dribbling looks a shadow of what it used to be. Agree completely and it's very annoying. Even in the pre-season games that year, especially against Valencia, his level of performance was very high - he actually looked like a winger with a bit of flair about him. Nowadays you would think he had been converted from a full-back position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 No creativity from wide is a problem. Santon, Simpson & Jonas don't create opportunities out wide and neither striker looks to do it either. Yesterday, our general approach play was decent and it wasn't hoofball by any means. At this level you need atleast 1 marauding fullback with good delivery and a dangerous wideman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I would love to know what happened to Jonas post-Keegan era, as he looked a really good player in his first few appearances but right now besides work-rate, he offers next to nothing. Age? Fatigue? Looks to have put on some muscle? Guess is as good as mine. Just clearly looks like every single year we've had him, he's looked less and less the player we signed. And seriously, just re-watch his Man Utd match the season we signed him. His pace and dribbling looks a shadow of what it used to be. Agree completely and it's very annoying. Even in the pre-season games that year, especially against Valencia, his level of performance was very high - he actually looked like a winger with a bit of flair about him. Nowadays you would think he had been converted from a full-back position. He plays like a DM now. Passes the buck on the ball. When your RB or RB is delivering a ball you want your LM in the box. Instead he's behind where the ball was originally played. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 No creativity from wide is a problem. Santon, Simpson & Jonas don't create opportunities out wide and neither striker looks to do it either. Yesterday, our general approach play was decent and it wasn't hoofball by any means. At this level you need atleast 1 marauding fullback with good delivery and a dangerous wideman. Add having no threat from set pieces or crosses to that list and it starts to look pretty bleak. Literally the only creativity we have comes from Ben Arfa and Cabaye, and their threat is often nullified by the opposition doubling up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 No creativity from wide is a problem. It's been a big problem since we signed Jonas, actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 No creativity from wide is a problem. It's been a big problem since we signed Jonas, actually. It's been a big problem since Robert and Solano left.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 N'Zogbia and Solano did fine in 2005-06. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 No creativity from wide is a problem. Santon, Simpson & Jonas don't create opportunities out wide and neither striker looks to do it either. Yesterday, our general approach play was decent and it wasn't hoofball by any means. At this level you need atleast 1 marauding fullback with good delivery and a dangerous wideman. Yeah that is an issue that we don't really have a marauding full back type. When Santon comes forward he's always on the wrong leg to cross. He also tends to hold onto the ball too long (probably cause nothing much is happenning in the box). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 N'Zogbia and Solano did fine in 2005-06. Aye under Roeder. Then what did Roeder do, buys Duff and plays him instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 N'Zogbia and Solano did fine in 2005-06. Aye under Roeder. Then what did Roeder do, buys Duff and plays him instead. Sure it was Freddy that bought Duff iirc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think N'Zogbia and Milner was the last time I remember us fielding 2 proper, competent wingers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 That's pushing it for Milner imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I've said this before but Stoke make you change your game plan. Their style is imposed and you will have to deal with it. For us. If Ba has a bad day & HBA is quiet. That's it. I agree with you but bringing up Stoke as an example is a bit strange. They had 1 shot on goal against Villa if you believe the BBC stats, Skysports has them on 2 That's hardly imposing their style. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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