Cronky Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Pardew's really missed a trick by always forfeiting the cups. Win a cup, any cup and he'lll buy himself years with the fans and probably the board too. I don't think that's the way things work, with any football club. The minute a manager is struggling, all past achievements go out the window. Ask Arsene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The point about Moyes is a great one It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCONA Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Pardew's really missed a trick by always forfeiting the cups. Win a cup, any cup and he'lll buy himself years with the fans and probably the board too. Does anyone seriously believe that Pardew forfeited the cup? What would be the point? I do. Fewer fixtures, it's quite straightforward. Agreed. But I do think, we'll take the euros a little more seriously now, considering theres no chance of being back next year- without winning it "winning it " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season. Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season. Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better. Do you think for a minute Colo and Cisse were actually injured? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season. Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better. Imagine the slaughtering he would get if he played Colo & Cisse and they were then missing for Norwich. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season. Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better. Do you think for a minute Colo and Cisse were actually injured? They had niggling injuries. Why wouldn't you rest them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Pardew's really missed a trick by always forfeiting the cups. Win a cup, any cup and he'lll buy himself years with the fans and probably the board too. Does anyone seriously believe that Pardew forfeited the cup? What would be the point? I do. Fewer fixtures, it's quite straightforward. Has that ever really made a difference? I'm pretty sure the season we last got relegated we crashed out of the FA Cup early as well. When we got relegated I can't remember the club blaming it almost wholly on injuries and a lack of preparation time between matches. A 3rd round replay would have taken place between crucial games against Norwich and Reading, with a 4th round match taking place between Reading and Villa. He wants the time to get players fit, and to focus on stopping those free-scoring sides from playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season. Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better. Do you think for a minute Colo and Cisse were actually injured? I don't know, and neither do you. I don't quite think resting 2 players is throwing away the cup though even if they were. I can understand the thought process of not wanting to play a full strength side (again we pretty much put out what we could) but I still don't think he sent them out with the intention of getting beat and extending our shit run of form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The point about Moyes is a great one It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working. I don't have the time right now to go trawling for examples but are you suggesting that David Moyes is the only example of a club being rewarded for sticking with a manager through difficult times? Because it looks like that's what you're suggesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 If I believed Pardew had anywhere near Moyes' ability, I'd be more patient with him. Did you know at the time that Moyes was as good as he has proved to be or are you talking with the benefit of hindsight? I don't think many, if any, picked Moyes out to be a potential star during the lean years. Moyes (and Ferguson who is the other one usually rolled out to support this specious argument) had a record of success at their previous clubs which is why they were given the job. What in Pardew's record suggests that he will turn this around and bring this club success? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season. Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better. Do you think for a minute Colo and Cisse were actually injured? I don't know, and neither do you. I don't quite think resting 2 players is throwing away the cup though even if they were. I can understand the thought process of not wanting to play a full strength side (again we pretty much put out what we could) but I still don't think he sent them out with the intention of getting beat and extending our shit run of form. Obviously I don't believe he sent them out to lose, that would be ridiculous. But considering the lack of impetus and urgency even from such a youthful side surely happy to get a chance, I would be stunned if the overriding instruction wasn't just to avoid injury. Pardew ignoring the fans at the full time whistle was the confirmation for me, he couldn't bear to face them IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 If I believed Pardew had anywhere near Moyes' ability, I'd be more patient with him. Did you know at the time that Moyes was as good as he has proved to be or are you talking with the benefit of hindsight? I don't think many, if any, picked Moyes out to be a potential star during the lean years. Moyes (and Ferguson who is the other one usually rolled out to support this specious argument) had a record of success at their previous clubs which is why they were given the job. What in Pardew's record suggests that he will turn this around and bring this club success? Moyes' record at Preston is very similar to what Pardew achieved with Reading and to a lesser extent West Ham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I agree with Dave to an extent, partially because all of Pardew's bluster about loving the FA Cup for three years in a row has lead to a pathetic limp performance away to a lower league side and an early exit and I think it's just a front to deflect criticism onto the players when we do go out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The point about Moyes is a great one It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working. I don't have the time right now to go trawling for examples but are you suggesting that David Moyes is the only example of a club being rewarded for sticking with a manager through difficult times? Because it looks like that's what you're suggesting. It's the only example I keep reading all season. I'll balance it out with George Burley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season. Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better. Do you think for a minute Colo and Cisse were actually injured? I don't know, and neither do you. I don't quite think resting 2 players is throwing away the cup though even if they were. I can understand the thought process of not wanting to play a full strength side (again we pretty much put out what we could) but I still don't think he sent them out with the intention of getting beat and extending our shit run of form. Obviously I don't believe he sent them out to lose, that would be ridiculous. But considering the lack of impetus and urgency even from such a youthful side surely happy to get a chance, I would be stunned if the overriding instruction wasn't just to avoid injury. Pardew ignoring the fans at the full time whistle was the confirmation for me, he couldn't bear to face them IMO. Well he did admit to his game plan being "wait until 70 minutes and then Marv will come on and win the game" so there's probably something in that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The point about Moyes is a great one It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working. I don't have the time right now to go trawling for examples but are you suggesting that David Moyes is the only example of a club being rewarded for sticking with a manager through difficult times? Because it looks like that's what you're suggesting. There's as many examples (probably more) of clubs being damaged by sticking with the wrong man for too long. The key factor isn't the amount of time given to the manager, it's the manager's ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 So what have we learnt? Sometimes its good to stick with a manager. Sometimes its not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I do expect the young lads to put more effort on it though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 So what have we learnt? Sometimes its good to stick with a manager. Sometimes its not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The point about Moyes is a great one It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working. Are you really suggesting that chopping and changing managers leads to more success? There are truckloads of examples across all sports that prove the exact opposite. It's not done this way, but changing managers should be a last resort when you're absolutely sure he's what's holding the team back AND there's a replacement you believe can take the team forward. I'm speaking in general terms here as I'm on the fence about Pardew at the moment. Better the devil you know for the time being. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season. Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better. Do you think for a minute Colo and Cisse were actually injured? I don't know, and neither do you. I don't quite think resting 2 players is throwing away the cup though even if they were. I can understand the thought process of not wanting to play a full strength side (again we pretty much put out what we could) but I still don't think he sent them out with the intention of getting beat and extending our shit run of form. Obviously I don't believe he sent them out to lose, that would be ridiculous. But considering the lack of impetus and urgency even from such a youthful side surely happy to get a chance, I would be stunned if the overriding instruction wasn't just to avoid injury. Pardew ignoring the fans at the full time whistle was the confirmation for me, he couldn't bear to face them IMO. Well he did admit to his game plan being "wait until 70 minutes and then Marv will come on and win the game" so there's probably something in that. Sadly I'm struggling to hold it against him too much, we're in deep shit in the league and need every advantage we can get. We've already seen with the Europa League how things go to shit with only a few days between matches. It probably shouldn't be the case, but apparently it is. If we were due to play Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea then perhaps he wouldn't have rested Colo/Cisse/Marv. In reality our upcoming games are far too important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I think we should bring in a manager with clear potential and a good footballing philosophy and stick with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The point about Moyes is a great one It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working. Are you really suggesting that chopping and changing managers leads to more success? There are truckloads of examples across all sports that prove the exact opposite. It's not done this way, but changing managers should be a last resort when you're absolutely sure he's what's holding the team back AND there's a replacement you believe can take the team forward. I'm speaking in general terms here as I'm on the fence about Pardew at the moment. Better the devil you know for the time being. Obviously not. I'm saying there's one example of sticking with a manager that gets trotted out to defend Pardew. Moyes surviving a 7th to 17th finish doesn't mean every other manager should "just in case". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I don't see how only having 2 or 3 days to prepare for a game after the Europa League suddenly means 'ah fuck it let's just batter the ball at Ba and Cisse in a flat 4-4-2', if we'd been consistently working on one fluid formation all season (i.e. from the start of pre-season) then this lack of prep time wouldn't matter. Pardew probably just spends all of it telling our players to shit themselves because we're up against Cameron Jerome, Shaun Derry, Craig Mackail-Smith etc this week and they are fucking BRILLIANT players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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