Alan Pardew

[Guest neesy111]

The obvious 1st change was to being Anita on for Jonas and give Debuchy some protection.

[Stuy_O]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

Really though, in the manner we did yesterday? I mean last ditch tackles, clearances off the line, heroic stuff? Because in my opinion that was what transpired through an early set back and then Villa instantly adopting Stoke City tactics by bombarding our box relentlessly.

 

I said it after the game and said it at half time yesterday, if we had got to about an hour in that game at 0-2 I honestly think we would have scored a few more.

 

Having said that maybe it's best we never, as some on here would have nothing to write about.

[Hughesy]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

Out of interest, do you think he tells them to retreat and hold onto the lead and play possession football or does he tell them to retreat and hold onto the lead by panicking and hoofing the ball to the opposition?

[Guest Dontooner]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

Out of interest, do you think he tells them to retreat and hold onto the lead and play possession football or does he tell them to retreat and hold onto the lead by panicking and hoofing the ball to the opposition?

Both, when stress is slightly applied and we are in the lead or holding out for a drawn, we will sit deep and the players will drop dribbling forward. Just watch the last 20 games again. in the second half our players stop dribbling up the field and choose to hold positions. Its exactly why we start hoofing it. GO watch the Game stop being muppets of Pardew when you guys dont actually watch it properly.

[Hughesy]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

Out of interest, do you think he tells them to retreat and hold onto the lead and play possession football or does he tell them to retreat and hold onto the lead by panicking and hoofing the ball to the opposition?

Both, when stress is slightly applied and we are in the lead or holding out for a drawn, we will sit deep and the players will drop dribbling forward. Just watch the last 20 games again. in the second half our players stop dribbling up the field and choose to hold positions. Its exactly why we start hoofing it. GO watch the Game stop being muppets of Pardew when you guys dont actually watch it properly.

 

Sitting deep and not dribbling in itself is not a tactical flaw.  Plenty of teams can effectively close a game out by retaining possession and not taking risks.

 

It would be helpful if you could go and fetch the toys that you just hurled out of you pram back and calm down a bit.  You are not doing yourself any favours.

[sugoinufc]

It's difficult to try and retain a balanced view when we have looked dreadful at some points this season. But we also looked dreadful at certain points last season, at least as bad as this season. However when you're in the top 6 and scraping wins, with the odd excellent performance (Man Utd, Liverpool etc.) then people tend to worry about it less.

 

So far this season we have had the Euro games to contend with, the terrible summer transfer window, injuries to key players (Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Taylor), the Ba situation to deal with (and by that I mean accommodating his wishes at the expense of Cisse in the hope he would re-sign in the summer), the recent Colocinni situation (which I think has affected his form a little over the season), and a serious drop in form by some squad players who managed to do a competent job last year even though they are not fan favourites (Williamson, Shola, Jonas).

 

Is that bad management, or is that something outside of Pardew's control? We can't just ignore it and say it has no affect, it must do.

 

Has Pardew become a bad manager over the summer? Has he been "found out"? I doubt it, and to suggest that he has also suggests that last season he had an element of tactical genius which other managers couldn't work out, but now they have. Hardly likely is it?

 

You might say he was lucky last year, that the team performed well in spite of Pardew. Seems a bit unfair, to suggest that if we do well then its the players dragging  us along despite Pardew, and if we do badly its due to Pardew and not the players.

 

The most likely answer is probably the lease interesting - Pardew is not a terrible manager and he is not the best manager in the league. We overperformed last year, and the joy of finishing 5th tends to erase the memory of some dreadful performances, and some lucky scraped wins. How many points did Ryan Taylor win us? Move forward a season, throw in a load of Euro games, and squad depth becomes a hell of a lot more important. Add to that a drop in form of the sorts of players who make up the squad depth, then you can see how it can start to affect performances. It would take a top top manager to take that scenario and turn it into a season the fans would be pleased with, and Pardew is not one of those managers. However, very few of those managers exist, and those that do are not coming to Newcastle in the near future.

 

Michael Laudrup is the current hot name in management. How do you think he will do if he is still at Swansea next year, they are likely to be in Europe, and lets just assume they have the same lack of strengthening we had this year, and the same issues to deal with. I've seen nothing to suggest that he would cope any better than Pardew, and I would say the same about most managers in this league, perhaps Moyes and Ferguson aside.

 

When you're p*ssed off with the manager it is always easy to point to specific perceived tactical errors that do not work out. Sending Shola on last night and taking Perch off looked like a bad decision in hindsight. However with Shola on a good day (as was the case at some points last season) it sometimes worked well, and he defends corners well and if he holds the ball up properly it takes pressure off the midfield and defence. However, he didn't do that job well last night, so it will go down as a bad decision.

 

Trying to give a balanced view probably comes across as relatively Pro-Pardew, which I'm not. I just think that unless you bag a really top drawer manager then the best you can hope for is a manager who is reasonably competent and that the players want to play for, and Pardew would fit that bill.

This post should be made into its own thread and stuck at the top of the forum.

 

well said. Agree with most...but the shola sub, come on! no excuses. He did fine as a sub last season for 5-10 minutes. He has been really really poor this season and sometimes like yesterday the task asked of him is very difficult to do. How cant pardew see that. If he came on for the last 5-10 minutes and was put in our own box to defend set pieces i could understand. But he cant run and takes away our chances of counter attacking.

 

It would have been much better to pack the midfield, keep cisse central - not on the wing. Then we could have been a threat on the counter with cisse and for example anita running at them.

 

With cisse out wide and shola on top we do not have anything and that is one of the main reasons why we were such under pressure.

[Toonpack]

I don't need an Oscar to know that some c*** can't act.

 

You don't, but you'd need to be "in the business" to make that judgement worth anything.

 

If you have seen anyone who you believe can't act, on TV or in a film, (and there are a few I would agree with the sentiment) you (and I) are wrong, they may not act as well as some others, but they can absolutely act, otherwise they wouldn't get "the gig" and even if "poor" they are better than whoever else was available.

[Wullie]

I think he tells them to stay in position then send it as far away from our goal as possible. When we have a lead, the last thing we try to do is actually keep the ball. I've been told this was because Williamson and Simpson were playing. They didn't play last night yet the only thing we did for the last half hour was leather it seventy yards towards Shola.

[Disco]

The collective wisdom of N-O would have dropped Jonas fifteen games ago. You watch when he does it soon and we will play better. Should we applaud this move? Should we congratulate him on doing something most of us figured out ages ago? He's the one seeing them every day. He should know better than we do but evidently not because most of the things that he's done well were things that most of us said he should do way before he ever did it.

 

Pardew has been forced to do without Gutierrez a few times in the last 15 games. 

 

The record is....

 

With

P11 W3 D2 L6*

 

Without

P4 W0 D0 L4

 

I don't think the improved performance without Gutierrez argument holds any water whatsoever....unlike the man himself who sloshes about buckets of the stuff.

 

Pardew does know better than most on here.  He knows Gutierrez does a lot of the teams leg work, which few fans give him credit for.

 

*He only played 25 minutes of the loss to West Ham, a game we were not losing when he went off.

 

On the contrary, that's one of the attributes Jonas gets loads of credit for on here, not sure how often you read these boards. Dave alluded to this earlier when he was wondering why when Agbonlahor came on, why Jonas wasn't instructed to switch wings to stifle his threat. Or at least someone should have been given that job, rather than bringing on a big target man and shunting the centre forward onto the right wing.

 

Maybe because Santon's a liability without help

 

Fine, but how was bringing on Shola going to stop Agbonlahor running at Debuchy on the left wing?

 

Because by APs logic it meant Gouffran could sit deeper in front of him.

[Toonpack]

The obvious 1st change was to being Anita on for Jonas and give Debuchy some protection.

 

And expose Santon

[TRon]

I don't need an Oscar to know that some c*** can't act.

 

You don't, but you'd need to be "in the business" to make that judgement worth anything.

 

If you have seen anyone who you believe can't act, on TV or in a film, (and there are a few I would agree with the sentiment) you (and I) are wrong, they may not act as well as some others, but they can absolutely act, otherwise they wouldn't get "the gig" and even if "poor" they are better than whoever else was available.

 

I'm assuming you are in the business as you are very dismissive of other opinions here so fair enough, I'll respect your professional opinion. Can you explain to me the value of centre forwards being pushed to the right wing when the main threat is coming from the opposition winger down that flank?

[Guest Dontooner]

Can't see anyone buying the argument that the players ran out of steam, in all of Newcastle Managers and regimes , this is the only Manager that has use substitutions to explain player fatigue in every fucking game. Remember Cayabe in the last game?? Remember chalking up Euro as exhausting when we had less then a hand full of 1st teams players playing in them?

 

Those who being following games week in and week out will be able to see where the problem is, only a handful that watches games weekly is being optimistic. Pardew is a poor Manager and if you can't see it, keep enjoying football as how you like it.

[Heake]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

Out of interest, do you think he tells them to retreat and hold onto the lead and play possession football or does he tell them to retreat and hold onto the lead by panicking and hoofing the ball to the opposition?

Both, when stress is slightly applied and we are in the lead or holding out for a drawn, we will sit deep and the players will drop dribbling forward. Just watch the last 20 games again. in the second half our players stop dribbling up the field and choose to hold positions. Its exactly why we start hoofing it. GO watch the Game stop being muppets of Pardew when you guys dont actually watch it properly.

 

This

 

I`m not sure how much of the second half panic came accross on telly, but it was painfull to watch.

 

I had my eye on Pardue & he never semed at all upset about hoofed balls up to Shola which were bouncing back with alarming regularity. No matter what their tactics & tempo they adopted in the second half, we should have had enough in our "locker" to tackle, play, frustrate & threaten with good counter-attacking football.

 

To say we were lucky to get the three points in an alarming understatement.

 

 

[Stuy_O]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

Out of interest, do you think he tells them to retreat and hold onto the lead and play possession football or does he tell them to retreat and hold onto the lead by panicking and hoofing the ball to the opposition?

Both, when stress is slightly applied and we are in the lead or holding out for a drawn, we will sit deep and the players will drop dribbling forward. Just watch the last 20 games again. in the second half our players stop dribbling up the field and choose to hold positions. Its exactly why we start hoofing it. GO watch the Game stop being muppets of Pardew when you guys dont actually watch it properly.

 

Ahh yes, our undying love for Pardew is clouding our vision when we watched the match. Actually that same logic can be applied for your seemingly pathological hatred of him.

 

He may have instructed the team to dig in and defend for the latter stages of that match, but I will be utterly astounded if he told them to do it in the manner they did. Pardew was going mental with Krul for blasting straight up to Villa's back four, and that moment where I think it was either Cabaye or Debuchy ran to the corner flag to then simply turn and chip it to a Villa player defied belief.

 

Like Pardew said, the players were extremely nervous, a natural mindset given the run we're on. We could have imploded 2nd half.

[Guest Dontooner]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

Out of interest, do you think he tells them to retreat and hold onto the lead and play possession football or does he tell them to retreat and hold onto the lead by panicking and hoofing the ball to the opposition?

Both, when stress is slightly applied and we are in the lead or holding out for a drawn, we will sit deep and the players will drop dribbling forward. Just watch the last 20 games again. in the second half our players stop dribbling up the field and choose to hold positions. Its exactly why we start hoofing it. GO watch the Game stop being muppets of Pardew when you guys dont actually watch it properly.

 

Sitting deep and not dribbling in itself is not a tactical flaw.  Plenty of teams can effectively close a game out by retaining possession and not taking risks.

 

It would be helpful if you could go and fetch the toys that you just hurled out of you pram back and calm down a bit.  You are not doing yourself any favours.

This has gone on for the last 20-30 matches, calm down? If its a one match knee jerk situation fair enough . FFS not dribbling and moving players into the players half is not a tactical flaw? Every Newcastle player we have signed must magically became a pussy then, not having the balls to move forward

Really can't see your point where you can put blame away from Pardew for the last 20 odds matches

[TRon]

The collective wisdom of N-O would have dropped Jonas fifteen games ago. You watch when he does it soon and we will play better. Should we applaud this move? Should we congratulate him on doing something most of us figured out ages ago? He's the one seeing them every day. He should know better than we do but evidently not because most of the things that he's done well were things that most of us said he should do way before he ever did it.

 

Pardew has been forced to do without Gutierrez a few times in the last 15 games. 

 

The record is....

 

With

P11 W3 D2 L6*

 

Without

P4 W0 D0 L4

 

I don't think the improved performance without Gutierrez argument holds any water whatsoever....unlike the man himself who sloshes about buckets of the stuff.

 

Pardew does know better than most on here.  He knows Gutierrez does a lot of the teams leg work, which few fans give him credit for.

 

*He only played 25 minutes of the loss to West Ham, a game we were not losing when he went off.

 

On the contrary, that's one of the attributes Jonas gets loads of credit for on here, not sure how often you read these boards. Dave alluded to this earlier when he was wondering why when Agbonlahor came on, why Jonas wasn't instructed to switch wings to stifle his threat. Or at least someone should have been given that job, rather than bringing on a big target man and shunting the centre forward onto the right wing.

 

Maybe because Santon's a liability without help

 

Fine, but how was bringing on Shola going to stop Agbonlahor running at Debuchy on the left wing?

 

Because by APs logic it meant Gouffran could sit deeper in front of him.

 

Why not just bring Anita on in the first place if you need someone to sit deeper in front of him?

[Happy Face]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

The idea that a team that has lost the lead is never going to up their game to chase victory is bogus iyam.  I definitely think Pardew is over wary of this sometimes.  His Reading changes were a disgrace and handed them an incentive they didn't have otherwise, rather than boosting us.  He says they were forced on him.  Not sure i agree.

 

It just wasn't the case last night though.

 

The idea that Pardew's half time team talk was anything but "more of the same" is wrong if you ask me. It was Villa that made 2 changes that altered the game entirely.  The question mark was how Pardew dealt with that once he sussed it.

 

Subs made in the last 20 minutes are not what led to events in the first ten minutes of the second half though.  There were  squeaky bums as we're nervous of not winning a single game on the road.  Ultimately though, we conceded the goal that lifted Villaspirits with the same set-up as we had in the first half, because Lambert saw what he had to do and set-up to combat that set-up.  Pardew changed things after conceding, dropping ever deeper, annoying as any of us find that, as the only way he could cope with the onslaught....which ultimately he did, we conceded no more after any of his changes last night.

 

[Stuy_O]

Can't see anyone buying the argument that the players ran out of steam, in all of Newcastle Managers and regimes , this is the only Manager that has use substitutions to explain player fatigue in every f***ing game. Remember Cayabe in the last game?? Remember chalking up Euro as exhausting when we had less then a hand full of 1st teams players playing in them?

 

Those who being following games week in and week out will be able to see where the problem is, only a handful that watches games weekly is being optimistic. Pardew is a poor Manager and if you can't see it, keep enjoying football as how you like it.

 

I watch and go to games weekly, yet took more positives than negatives last night.

 

Call me crazy.

[Disco]

The collective wisdom of N-O would have dropped Jonas fifteen games ago. You watch when he does it soon and we will play better. Should we applaud this move? Should we congratulate him on doing something most of us figured out ages ago? He's the one seeing them every day. He should know better than we do but evidently not because most of the things that he's done well were things that most of us said he should do way before he ever did it.

 

Pardew has been forced to do without Gutierrez a few times in the last 15 games. 

 

The record is....

 

With

P11 W3 D2 L6*

 

Without

P4 W0 D0 L4

 

I don't think the improved performance without Gutierrez argument holds any water whatsoever....unlike the man himself who sloshes about buckets of the stuff.

 

Pardew does know better than most on here.  He knows Gutierrez does a lot of the teams leg work, which few fans give him credit for.

 

*He only played 25 minutes of the loss to West Ham, a game we were not losing when he went off.

 

On the contrary, that's one of the attributes Jonas gets loads of credit for on here, not sure how often you read these boards. Dave alluded to this earlier when he was wondering why when Agbonlahor came on, why Jonas wasn't instructed to switch wings to stifle his threat. Or at least someone should have been given that job, rather than bringing on a big target man and shunting the centre forward onto the right wing.

 

Maybe because Santon's a liability without help

 

Fine, but how was bringing on Shola going to stop Agbonlahor running at Debuchy on the left wing?

 

Because by APs logic it meant Gouffran could sit deeper in front of him.

 

Why not just bring Anita on in the first place if you need someone to sit deeper in front of him?

 

Because he wanted Gouffran's pace/ability on the break I speculate, we'll probably never know.

[TRon]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

Out of interest, do you think he tells them to retreat and hold onto the lead and play possession football or does he tell them to retreat and hold onto the lead by panicking and hoofing the ball to the opposition?

Both, when stress is slightly applied and we are in the lead or holding out for a drawn, we will sit deep and the players will drop dribbling forward. Just watch the last 20 games again. in the second half our players stop dribbling up the field and choose to hold positions. Its exactly why we start hoofing it. GO watch the Game stop being muppets of Pardew when you guys dont actually watch it properly.

 

Sitting deep and not dribbling in itself is not a tactical flaw.  Plenty of teams can effectively close a game out by retaining possession and not taking risks.

 

 

Nothing wrong with sitting deep in itself, I agree. It's a great opportunity to hit teams on the break if you set your team out right to take avdantage of the opposition throwing everyone forward. But you need to pass the ball out when you get possession, not thump it 70 yds down the pitch in the direction of 6'5 substitute striker.

[Guest Dontooner]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

Out of interest, do you think he tells them to retreat and hold onto the lead and play possession football or does he tell them to retreat and hold onto the lead by panicking and hoofing the ball to the opposition?

Both, when stress is slightly applied and we are in the lead or holding out for a drawn, we will sit deep and the players will drop dribbling forward. Just watch the last 20 games again. in the second half our players stop dribbling up the field and choose to hold positions. Its exactly why we start hoofing it. GO watch the Game stop being muppets of Pardew when you guys dont actually watch it properly.

 

Ahh yes, our undying love for Pardew is clouding our vision when we watched the match. Actually that same logic can be applied for your seemingly pathological hatred of him.

 

He may have instructed the team to dig in and defend for the latter stages of that match, but I will be utterly astounded if he told them to do it in the manner they did. Pardew was going mental with Krul for blasting straight up to Villa's back four, and that moment where I think it was either Cabaye or Debuchy ran to the corner flag to then simply turn and chip it to a Villa player defied belief.

 

Like Pardew said, the players were extremely nervous, a natural mindset given the run we're on. We could have imploded 2nd half.

I do not Hate Pardew, my criticism comes from the fact of his tactical flaws, it was clear to me even when we were beating Man United last season. I was one of the few that were still criticizing his tactics even on a good run.

 

We defended for a whole second half and sat back, if we have pushed forward, We would not have being pin back for 45 minutes.

45 minutes is half the game in football, i cant see how a team can be push back by fatigue for one whole half apart from instructions.

Every second half is the same doesnt it ring a bell?

[Stuy_O]

Shola was brought on for the ball to stick up front, allowing us to push out.

 

Trouble is he never does very well at all.

[toptoon]

Why the bloody hell do we not try and hit teams on the break when they are throwing the kitchen sink at us is beyond me. Campbell instead of Shola please Pardew sort it out.

[merlin]

We've played utterly s*** and won in must win games before and they've gained no confidence from it.

 

How can you get any confidence from being thoroughly outplayed for 45 minutes by a team of kids who've just been beaten over two legs by Bradford City and were recently beaten 4-0 at home by bloody Wigan. You can be pleased at dragging yourself over the line against Man United but not this Villa side.

 

I know a win was the most important thing, but we've heard it all before after West Brom, QPR etc, "now we can kick on" - we never do. Last night gives us nowt to go into Chelsea feeling particularly positive about,  it will just enhance the fear if we take the lead, but beating them 4-0 would have done us the world of good.

 

Utter Utter Utter Garbage

 

We held on after being under the cosh, having gifted them a goal - if Simpson had done what Debuchy did he'd be getting crucified on here, Krul actually made some saves for once. We won away from home, Cabaye and Sissoko were excellent until they tired.

 

We won after a team came back at us, previously a team scores and we fold, this time we didn't.

 

Laugahable !!, when we lose it's Pardew's fault, when we win it's despite Pardew.

 

WE WON A GAME, AWAY FROM HOME, NO LESS !!!

 

If winning 4-0 is your benchmark of acceptability, you may as well pack in and start watching basketball.

 

Confidence is an incremental thing and I'll quite happily take some scraped results whilst it builds.

 

Either you have as much comprehension of tactical changes as Pardew has or you never actually watched the second half.

 

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were a professional coach, which club do you work for ??

 

BTW - Yes we were poor second half, but we hung on, Debuchy doesn't have a brainfart and they would have fizzled out. Them scoring early combined with our lack of confidence meant we were on the back foot. Agree with the changes or not - we held on, and we won, ergo the substitutions worked.

 

Do you have a problem with people passing an opinion that doesn't go along with yours ?

What makes YOU think you are in a position to use your pathetic attempt at sarcasm by

asking another poster if they were a qualified coach ?

 

You lost any credibility when you started quoting Talksh--e - those people are living adverts for the lousy standard of the UK media, and as for the BBC...doesn't that stand for the Biased Broadcasting Corp ?

 

IF you want to judge any situation properly, you try to get as much info about it as possible....you claim that you want to give Pardew time - have you studied his record with his previous clubs ? Has it occurred to you that there may JUST be a pattern there...?

 

If you are a Pardew fan that's fine....just don't expect the rest of us to take the sort of crap you are dishing out in his defence if we disagree - and the percentages of voters who either have lost faith with him or didn't have much in the first place far outweighs those with opinions like yours.

 

You can freely discuss your views about the majority when you meet with those who think like you in a telephone box.....

[TRon]

Shola was brought on for the ball to stick up front, allowing us to push out.

 

Trouble is he never does very well at all.

 

Well yeah, that would be the flaw in the masterplan.