Incognito Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 They didn't work as a partnership, they didn't work with Cisse wide. It's not about preferring any individual, it's about the fact that playing Ba wide and Cisse central was the way to produce the best team. Obviously we're arguing hypothetical situation against something that actually happened, so it's kind of hard to know either way. Our best results last year came at home to Man U and away to Chelsea. We played 4-4-2 in each. One with Ba and Cisse. What's best for the team is playing the in-form man in his best position. If you think the difference between last season and te beginning of this was swapping Ba and Cisse around then there's not much I can say. The fact Pardew is still willing to stick Cisse out wide from time to time just confirms he doesn't believe Cisse at the moment to be the best option at 9 at all times. Contract situation aside. IMO most managers and pundits will think play the in form man. We didn't play 4-4-2 at Chelsea. It was a 4-3-3, though it was more fluid than before with Ba and Cisse interchanging. Ironic Cisse scored that goal from where Ba would've been in a more rigid formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I thought Spurs looked the definition of a one-man team against us tbh. Didn't see the West Ham game but he definitely won the points against us (with a little help from our centre-backs). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 It was 4-4-2. The opening goal shows the position of the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I thought Spurs looked the definition of a one-man team against us tbh. Didn't see the West Ham game but he definitely won the points against us (with a little help from our centre-backs). Take Bale out and they'd be mid-table. Just look at how many points he's got them alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I think they're a good team actually with a good defence and mid but really desperately need some more cutting edge up top, they lack a striker better than Defoe, and especially when he's injured of course they're going to rely on Bale. If they buy Benteke and a few others in the summer (somehow seems exactly the kind of striker they need) think they'd look less of a one man team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I thought Spurs looked the definition of a one-man team against us tbh. Didn't see the West Ham game but he definitely won the points against us (with a little help from our centre-backs). Can't believe what hans is saying personally. I haven't seen a man carry a team like this in ages. Did he watch our match? Did he watch the Wham match? At Wham, without Bale they lose imo. Against us, we looked toothless without Gouff but I would've fancied us to nick a draw. They probably would've bundled one in without Bale at some point. They don't score 3 at Wham without Bale. They don't beat Lyon at home without Bale. They lose to Norwich without Bale. You know why RVP is worth 20m at 29 with a year left on his contract? Because RVP and RVP alone is potentially the difference between 1st and 2nd. Does Hans think Bale is worth £30m because of his looks? Gareth Frank Bale has single handidly won Spurs matches, plural. You know... like any world class attacking, match winner in football. Worst part about Hans POV. Is that Bale is scoring wonder goals, outside the box, powerful runs. Definition of one man team heroics. As a team, Redknapp's lot where playing better than this before the implosion. The past 5 weeks have been the Gareth Bale show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I think they're a good team actually with a good defence and mid but really desperately need some more cutting edge up top, they lack a striker better than Defoe, and especially when he's injured of course they're going to rely on Bale. If they buy Benteke and a few others in the summer (somehow seems exactly the kind of striker they need) think they'd look less of a one man team. the defence isn't great atm. Do they do concede and look like conceding. The Bale braces have been vital. Had Bale been added to the injury list. They would be behind Arsenal. 100% certain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I thought Spurs looked the definition of a one-man team against us tbh. Didn't see the West Ham game but he definitely won the points against us (with a little help from our centre-backs). Take Bale out and they'd be mid-table. Just look at how many points he's got them alone. That is rubbish tbf, Bale hasn't been carrying them until the last 3 or 4 weeks before then it was much more of a team effort with Defoe, Dempsey, Dembele and Lennon all contributing to points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Hans is the naive fool. Star players can be the difference between winning and losing, cups and runners up. I thought everybody knew this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I thought Spurs looked the definition of a one-man team against us tbh. Didn't see the West Ham game but he definitely won the points against us (with a little help from our centre-backs). Take Bale out and they'd be mid-table. Just look at how many points he's got them alone. That is rubbish tbf, Bale hasn't been carrying them until the last 3 or 4 weeks before then it was much more of a team effort with Defoe, Dempsey, Dembele and Lennon all contributing to points. Mid table is a bit strong. Behind Arsenal? I believe so. The past 5 weeks Bale has won them points. Credit to AVB for helping Bale get to this next level but the team as a whole in recent weeks hasn't been great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Behind Arsenal? yeah sure but mid table is ridiculous, they would still be in the top 6 IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 AVB is an average manager and will be my next target once I'm done with Blobfish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I thought Spurs looked the definition of a one-man team against us tbh. Didn't see the West Ham game but he definitely won the points against us (with a little help from our centre-backs). Take Bale out and they'd be mid-table. Just look at how many points he's got them alone. That is rubbish tbf, Bale hasn't been carrying them until the last 3 or 4 weeks before then it was much more of a team effort with Defoe, Dempsey, Dembele and Lennon all contributing to points. Mid table is a bit strong. Behind Arsenal? I believe so. The past 5 weeks Bale has won them points. Credit to AVB for helping Bale get to this next level but the team as a whole in recent weeks hasn't been great. His strike rate is better than 1 in 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I thought Spurs looked the definition of a one-man team against us tbh. Didn't see the West Ham game but he definitely won the points against us (with a little help from our centre-backs). Take Bale out and they'd be mid-table. Just look at how many points he's got them alone. That is rubbish tbf, Bale hasn't been carrying them until the last 3 or 4 weeks before then it was much more of a team effort with Defoe, Dempsey, Dembele and Lennon all contributing to points. Mid table is a bit strong. Behind Arsenal? I believe so. The past 5 weeks Bale has won them points. Credit to AVB for helping Bale get to this next level but the team as a whole in recent weeks hasn't been great. So what the fuck are you going on about then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I'm sure the difference between 3rd and 5th is important in te Premiership like. Just a hunch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yeah they'd be behind arsenal without Bale sure, probably be around 6th or so. I think if they lose bale, if they sign a prolific striker and some better wingers that team would be competing for 5th again. I rate AVB personally think he's done very well with them this season, albeit bale is yes a lot of why they're so high. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Spurs have played pretty poorly in many games. Thought WHam fought back and would have won without the two Bale goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yeah saw a pathetic draw against Swansea with them too. I've seen them look very impressive as well, they maybe wouldn't look like a team capable of 3rd if Arsenal and Chelsea weren't both seemingly a shadow of former selves, but I still like Spurs and I think AVB is a much sharper manager than Rodgers who has one idea and does it to death. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yeah saw a pathetic draw against Swansea with them too. I've seen them look very impressive as well, they maybe wouldn't look like a team capable of 3rd if Arsenal and Chelsea weren't both seemingly a shadow of former selves, but I still like Spurs and I think AVB is a much sharper manager than Rodgers who has one idea and does it to death. Both good marketing men who seemed to have lucked into football management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 What swung it for me was getting Defoe to actually look like a good striker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 AVB has a bit of substance about him, Rodgers much like Pardew is a bit of a fraud who will be found out eventually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 AVB has a bit of substance about him, Rodgers much like Pardew is a bit of a fraud who will be found out eventually. Think that's about right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Spurs have played pretty poorly in many games. Thought WHam fought back and would have won without the two Bale goals. Oh, stop it. Yes, we'd have lost if we'd scored one and they'd scored two. Can't argue with that. Look, we made a s***-load of clear chances, and their keeper played a blinder. We didn't play particularly well, yet against a team that have done really well at home, and on a night where - and fair enough - they pulled every possible emotive string to gee up the crowd and players, we had over 60% possession and over three times as many shots - 16 on target. This has happened in most games over the last few weeks. We don't look particularly great, we seem a bit dull, then you look at the stats and we had lots of possession and far more shots/chances than the oppo. I think that's a conscious decision by AVB (keep it tight all over, rather than go gung-ho) and the law of averages suggests that it should work. And yeah, we're third. Anyway, I'm just a bit bored with people saying "take Bale out and we'd fall apart". Well, we'd obviously be struggling to stay where we are, because he's really bloody good. It's a pointless thing to say. AVB has put together the team in such a way as to give Bale as much freedom as possible, and he's responded. Redknapp tried the same last year, off and on, and it didn't work as well. We lost two of our three best players last year (some include King, but he was fading rapidly). We brought in a few, but then lost our best centre-back. Then AVB lost Sandro for the season - disrupting our excellent CM. Then we lost our striker, our top scorer. So, take out Kaboul, Sandro, and Defoe, and we're still third. And you want us to take out Bale too? And you're willing to go out on a limb and say we'd not be as good? Not meaning to pick on you here, Parky, but I must have read dozens and dozens of posts from people over the last month along the same lines (Edit: Across several forums - Liverpool, Arsenal etc), and this is the only time I've thought "f*** it, I'm responding." I don't think we can judge AVB too harshly or too generously - he's had two-thirds of a season. He's done better than I expected. Whoever it was that said he made players like Defoe not just look better, but be better (Tiresias?) is right. Defoe is not alone. As for Pards and Rodgers, well I spent a fair bit of time on the West Ham board this last seven days, and more than one person referred to Pardew as a fraud. I don't watch you guys closely enough to say so for sure, but you really were the fifth best side last year. He must have played some part in that. In the same vein, I see the real improvement in Rodgers' team. Maybe they'll both turn out to be mistakes, but they've both been given markedly improved squads to play with now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I'm sure the difference between 3rd and 5th is important in te Premiership like. Just a hunch. I'm not even entirely sure you realise what you're arguing against here. No-one is saying Bale isn't "carrying Tottenham", he undoubtedly is firing them to a potential 3rd place finish. The argument is that the rest of the Spurs side haven't been playing poor (man for man they were arguably better than us at WHL, certainly on par) and that without Bale they would not be a mid table side. I have no idea what your fucking tirade was all about but I can only guess it was typed furiously by a man extremely high on various solvents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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