Alan Pardew

[Mole_Toonfan]

We have underachieved. However I'd say the lack of strengthening in summer had more of an affect than you seem to suggest.

 

Perfect example is the Taylor injury at the end of the Southampton game in November. He missed 12 games, we lost 9 of them, conceding 26 times. If we'd signed Mbiwa in the summer it is highly unlikely that we'd have conceded that many. Not simply because he looks like an absolute gem of a player, but instead because we'd not be relying on a Championship centre half.

 

I'm not blaming it for everything, just most of the things. The injuries we've endured this season were the quota for this year and last in one go. Pardew must still shoulder some blame for limited tactics but he's a limited manager. He's got this job because he's happy to accept that he'll only have a small say in transfers in and out, he's accepting a small basic wage (presumably incentivised for cup/league success), he's going to toe the party line and he's a competent enough manager to do well enough in the competitions to keep us content.

 

I think even Ferguson would have struggled to do much better with the 1st team that's been available for much of the season.

 

While i agree with some of this, i don't think we would have been able to get Mbiwa in the summer ( same goes for Sissoko) someone of better quality than Williamson sure but i don't think Mbiwa himself was a possibility then.

 

I often think sometimes much of what we had to endure this season might be an necessary evil for the long term success of the team.

[Hanshithispantz]

Realistically we could have played this worst case scenario side for most of the season:

 

                          Krul

 

Simpson Williamson Coloccini Santon

 

                        Tiote

 

                  Anita      Marv

 

Obertan                                        Ba

                        Cisse

 

It's not exactly great, but even though I'm completely discounting HBA and Cabaye that side really shouldn't be threatened by relegation under a good manager. A genuine top quality manager would have us in the top 10, I have no doubt about that.

[Kanji]

We had a snowball effect from the end of the summer window until we stopped the rot and signed the new lads.  In between those 2 periods we had failed to build our squad, lost Cabaye, Taylor, Ben Arfa (later) to injuries, had some real stupid suspensions (Tiote/Colo), poor form from many of our key players, over-reliance on poorer players, and some awful management by AP when yo look at the disgusting football we were playing and our inability to get results.  He can't be fully blamed, nor can he be fully free from blame. The coaching staff, the players, and the board have all done poorly until January bar one or two bright spots.

 

Not sure he's the one to take us into top 7-8 regularly - but I can't honestly judge his body of work when he had many outside factors truly fucking about with his ability to pick the right players.

[The Fish]

I think that last sentence is a joke tbh, I was more p*ssed off than anyone with last summer's inactivity but the team we've put out this season should have won loads more games than it has.  The Taylor example's a decent one to present but that's one weak link that doesn't excuse countless losses/draws against some very poor teams.

 

Last year we benefited from a perfect storm; we had a few unknowns, we managed to field a mostly unchanged side for most of the 1st half of the season which gave us a consistency at the back, Ba and Cisse, etc. Add to our fortunes the misfortunes of Liverpool and Chelsea, Bolton and Blackburn, the unexpected performances of Norwich and Swansea.. All of these things contributed to a false (imo) 5th finish.

 

This year we'll finish back around where we're expected to be somewhere between 7th and 12th. Given our awful start it's more likely to be the bottom end of that field, but that's the price you pay for not strengthening a paper thin squad on the off-chance you once again don't get injuries.

 

Come on, man There's worse teams above us and they've been there all season. I've seen on here many times that Pardew gets the most out of squad players but this season has disproved that completely.

 

There are worse teams above us, but how many of them have had the injuries we've endured and how many will still be above us come the end of the season? It was only really West Brom, Stoke, Fulham and Norwich who I'd say had a worse squad than us at the beginning of the season, and who are now still above us. Now, I'd say with some confidence that we'll finish above at least two of those.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that we'd have picked up least 2 more points if we'd signed Debuchy and (say) Gouffran, putting us (goal difference aside) 11th.

 

Pardew said we'd erred by failing to strengthen and even Llambias went public to admit as much. If we'd strengthened would we be fighting for the Champions League spots as we were this time last year? Most likely we wouldn't.

 

However, we would have seen much better league performances (by virtue of fielding better players in their own positions), and an improved league position. Perhaps aiming for the last Europa spot? Who knows? I don't believe Ferguson would have had us 10 points better off, with the squad we've had this year. Do you, honestly?

 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

I think Ferguson realistically would have us more than 10 points better off.

[Hanshithispantz]

We've lost 6 games at home for one.

[Interpolic]

The Ferguson thing, fuck me. Doesn't deserve any serious discussion.

[Hanshithispantz]

Newcastle United 0 - 1 West Ham United

Newcastle United 1 - 2 Swansea City

Southampton 2 - 0 Newcastle United

Stoke City 2 - 1 Newcastle United

Newcastle United 3 - 0 Wigan Athletic

Fulham 2 - 1 Newcastle United

Newcastle United 1 - 3 Manchester City

Newcastle United 1 - 0 Queens Park Rangers

Manchester United 4 - 3 Newcastle United

Arsenal 7 - 3 Newcastle United

Newcastle United 1 - 2 Everton

Norwich City 0 - 0 Newcastle United

Newcastle United 1 - 2 Reading

 

That really shouldn't have happened

[The Fish]

Newcastle United 0 - 1 West Ham United

Newcastle United 1 - 2 Swansea City

Southampton 2 - 0 Newcastle United

Stoke City 2 - 1 Newcastle United

Newcastle United 3 - 0 Wigan Athletic

Fulham 2 - 1 Newcastle United

Newcastle United 1 - 3 Manchester City

Newcastle United 1 - 0 Queens Park Rangers

Manchester United 4 - 3 Newcastle United

Arsenal 7 - 3 Newcastle United

Newcastle United 1 - 2 Everton

Norwich City 0 - 0 Newcastle United

Newcastle United 1 - 2 Reading

 

That really shouldn't have happened

 

You're right, it shouldn't.

 

It also happened to be the period where in every one of those games we were either without Colo, Steven Taylor, Ben Arfa or Yohan Cabaye. Most of them we were without three of the four. Our 1st choice centre halves and our 1st & 2nd choice midfielders. You apply those same injuries to any other side and see how they fare?

 

Nobody is saying Pardew is blameless. Just that the majority of the faults lie with the men who decide what and when to buy. Which has been admitted by those men themselves (or their spokesman).

 

 

 

The compromise is to say that Pardew's undoubted limitations were exacerbated by the failures of the owners, but to apportion the majority of the blame on Pardew is just plain mental.

[merlin]

Seriously though, if Pardew wins us the Europa League, his name will (rightly) go down in NUFC folklore.

 

Will more than make up this season's failings...

This season has more to do with those holding the purse strings than the man in the dugout imo

 

They were to blame for the summer...they've opened the purse now, and its down to the manager & Co to produce results with the better players they have.

 

If they don't....

[Hanshithispantz]

It's the managers job to get whatever he has at his disposal functioning to together on the pitch and he failed dramatically during that period, and outside of the current top 5 and Liverpool I would say every chairmen or board in the league are worse or on par than "the men who decide what and when to buy" that we have, for differing reasons.

 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

I don't see why people have to hold such extreme stances here on either side. The board should have signed at least a couple of the players we did in January last summer, they fucked up there. In spite of this Pardew shouldn't have had the team he was given flirting with relegation for over half a season. Ultimately we would have benefited from a better board and/or a better manager.

 

 

[The Fish]

I don't see why people have to hold such extreme stances here on either side. The board should have signed at least a couple of the players we did in January last summer, they f***ed up there. In spite of this Pardew shouldn't have had the team he was given flirting with relegation for over half a season. Ultimately we would have benefited from a better board and/or a better manager.

 

So, work was quiet so I figured I'd see if my concerns about the weakened side were valid.

 

I think it's fair to say that the following was our 1st choice team for the season we finished 5th With N.E.Other filling the final spot (there wasn't another who really made the 11th place their own). The formatting on boards isn't great, but the columns are fairly self explanatory; Name, Apps, Subs, Appearance as a percentage (subs being 1/2 an app)

 

Krul 37+0 97%

Simpson 35+0 92%

Colo 34+0 89%

Williamson 20+1 54%

R.Taylor 23+7 60%

HBA 15+10 52%

Tiote 23+0 60%

Cabaye  33+0 79%

Jonas 36+0 95%

Ba 31+2 83%

 

 

and for this season going off Wiki and .com and given Santon hasn't missed a game I'm assuming these figures will tally, "assuming"...

 

Krul 22+0 81%

Simpson 15+1 57%

Williamson 18 +0 67%

Colo 19 + 0 70%

Santon 27 100%

Perch 17+5  72%

Anita 16+5 69%

Jonas 23 85%

Ben Arfa 13 48%

Ba 19+1 72%

Cisse 24+1 90%

 

You've got 6 players on the 2011/12 season with 80% or higher compared to 4 this term. The players last term? Krul, Simpson, Colo, Cabaye, Jonas and Ba. So that's our 1st choice 'keeper, our 1st choice CB and captain, our 1st choice Right Back who lead the league in goal line clearances, our 1st choice central midfielder who Pardew has described as our Quarterback stating faily plainly that the man is integral to the way we play, a grafting winger, and the clubs leading goal scorer.

 

This term we've been missing our 1st choice CB and captain, our 1st choice central midfielder who Pardew has described as our Quarterback st... you see where I'm going?

 

You swap Colo for Williamson, Cabaye for Perch and see how your team performs. It's a sign of how unsettled and disjointed the team has been that Ben Arfa has only made 13 appearances and he's one of the players that has taken to the Premier League fields the most. 

 

Long winded, but the underlying point is fairly simple; Last year we were so f***ing lucky with injuries it's startling, this season we've been utterly f***ed by them. Last summer the management had the opportunity to strengthen and they didn't, this season we've suffered for it. Last season Pardew was able to get away with being an average manager because of the ever present tools at his disposal, this time He's not had half as many tools and the ones he has got are rusted, s*** or not working properly.

[Guest icemanblue]

Good post, that.

[Incognito]

It is when you get injuries and suspensions that you see how good a manager you have. Pardew was found wanting when it happened to us, so much so that he actually lost us points due to his incompetence..see Reading.

 

I'd be looking to upgrade in the Summer.

[Guest icemanblue]

It is when you get injuries and suspensions that you see how good a manager you have. Pardew was found wanting when it happened to us, so much so that he actually lost us points due to his incompetence..see Reading.

 

I'd be looking to upgrade in the Summer.

 

Why do people post this? Aside from it being blindingly obvious that it's what you'd 'want', it's near enough the least likely thing to ever happen.

 

Just picture people posting it, then reclining and thinking to themselves, 'Yeah, I've made my point there. This is how shit's going down.'. All with a smug, self appreciating grin on their face.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It is when you get injuries and suspensions that you see how good a manager you have. Pardew was found wanting when it happened to us, so much so that he actually lost us points due to his incompetence..see Reading.

 

I'd be looking to upgrade in the Summer.

 

Why do people post this? Aside from it being blindingly obvious that it's what you'd 'want', it's near enough the least likely thing to ever happen.

 

Just picture people posting it, then reclining and thinking to themselves, 'Yeah, I've made my point there. This is how shit's going down.'. All with a smug, self appreciating grin on their face.

 

 

You're letting this get to you far too much mate!

[Dr Venkman]

I'll dig out 2 sets of starting 11s for every game this season and give you countless examples of where we should have got 1, 2, or 3 more points in each game if you like.

 

This blaming last summer for everything is fucking bollocks.  I was annoyed about it and it was a massive contributing factor but we've underachieved either way.

 

Please do, might stop some of the revisionist bollocks we've been seeing recently. We've been awful this season and some fans have swallowed the injuries excuse completely.

[Guest icemanblue]

It is when you get injuries and suspensions that you see how good a manager you have. Pardew was found wanting when it happened to us, so much so that he actually lost us points due to his incompetence..see Reading.

 

I'd be looking to upgrade in the Summer.

 

Why do people post this? Aside from it being blindingly obvious that it's what you'd 'want', it's near enough the least likely thing to ever happen.

 

Just picture people posting it, then reclining and thinking to themselves, 'Yeah, I've made my point there. This is how shit's going down.'. All with a smug, self appreciating grin on their face.

 

 

You're letting this get to you far too much mate!

 

Honestly, it's not. I did get wound up yesterday, like. I just think, every time I see it (a lot), that it's so redundant it's funny. Always picture that scenario.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I'll dig out 2 sets of starting 11s for every game this season and give you countless examples of where we should have got 1, 2, or 3 more points in each game if you like.

 

This blaming last summer for everything is fucking bollocks.  I was annoyed about it and it was a massive contributing factor but we've underachieved either way.

 

Please do, might stop some of the revisionist bollocks we've been seeing recently. We've been awful this season and some fans have swallowed the injuries excuse completely.

 

I don't think anyone would argue that we haven't underachieved.

[Incognito]

It seems to me, that he is the manager's equivalent of a flat track bully. A bit of adversity and he shits himself, as seen by his cowardly and mindblowingly incompetent second half tactics and substitutions.....again see Reading. And others too.

 

[Dr Venkman]

I'll dig out 2 sets of starting 11s for every game this season and give you countless examples of where we should have got 1, 2, or 3 more points in each game if you like.

 

This blaming last summer for everything is fucking bollocks.  I was annoyed about it and it was a massive contributing factor but we've underachieved either way.

 

Please do, might stop some of the revisionist bollocks we've been seeing recently. We've been awful this season and some fans have swallowed the injuries excuse completely.

 

I don't think anyone would argue that we haven't underachieved.

 

Sweet

 

Fwiw I want him gone ideally (is that ok Inochi?) but if the board are going to back him I'm happy enough for him to get another chance next season.

[Hanshithispantz]

That first team finished 5th, the 2nd team was 16th on 21 points until we bought 2 new shiny players. But the argument is flawed anyway, for a start Anita's percentage is 69% despite him never being injured, his percentage is low because the manager (wrongly imo) has just chose not to play the lad, the same for Marveaux who could easily have amassed far more appearances than he has, not to mention that substitution appearances or times where they have just sat on the bench haven't been taken into account for either table for any player, which again is down to the manager not picking said players. Also 80% or higher is a bit convenient (and wrong, the top team actually has 5 players 80% or higher), if we went 70% or higher (you can include Cabaye in this one) the 2nd team wins with 7 players to 6...

 

Using your method at 70% the contrasting core players look like this.

 

Krul, Simpson, Coloccini, Cabaye, Jonas, Ba

 

Krul, Colo, Santon, Perch, Jonas, Ba, Cisse

 

Basically it's all a bit pointless.

 

Like I said why does this argument have to be so extreme? Taking our injuries into account if we were in the top 10 before the Villa game and were currently sitting on ~40 points I would have no complaints, we would be about where we belong, had we remained injury free I would expect us to be challenging for the top 4.

[juniatmoko]

he definetely good motivator... but his tactical play is always questionable... we are too cautious team not a ruthless team which we capable of.

[Hanshithispantz]

I'll dig out 2 sets of starting 11s for every game this season and give you countless examples of where we should have got 1, 2, or 3 more points in each game if you like.

 

This blaming last summer for everything is fucking bollocks.  I was annoyed about it and it was a massive contributing factor but we've underachieved either way.

 

Please do, might stop some of the revisionist bollocks we've been seeing recently. We've been awful this season and some fans have swallowed the injuries excuse completely.

 

I don't think anyone would argue that we haven't underachieved.

 

Sweet

 

Fwiw I want him gone ideally (is that ok Inochi?) but if the board are going to back him I'm happy enough for him to get another chance next season.

This. I'm happy enough with him here (I mean it could be a fucking lot worse), by picking out his faults I'm not suggesting he's completely fucking inept or anything, I'm just saying "he did shit there" when he indeed did do shit there.