Cronky Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I think Pardew has done a good job of integrating the new players very quickly. Our performances (ie not just the results) have been completely transformed. He must be doing something right there. As to whether we should have ended up in that position - that's another matter. I think Pardew made a mistake in persisting with Ba when it was clear that he was looking for the opportunity to move on, and was effectively dictating terms to Pardew in the meantime. He should have been given the message in the summer that he plays where he's picked or he moves on. It wasn't as though the partnership with Cisse was looking that great anyway. We could also say that the Board (and perhaps Pardew as well) were blinded by the 5th place finish and didn't take action early enough to strengthen the side. Whatever, Pardew has shown some ability to turn things round very quickly and has to be given far more time to move things forward. The next transfer window should offer the club a really good opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Pardew didn't dare piss Ba off because he wasn't convinced the club would replace him. Same reason why Ameobi was refused permission to go to the Africa Cup of Nations. Pathetic really, hope we've seen the end of that shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Pardew didn't dare piss Ba off because he wasn't convinced the club would replace him. Same reason why Ameobi was refused permission to go to the Africa Cup of Nations. Pathetic really, hope we've seen the end of that shit. Good point . And if he felt that way, why wouldn't the fans feel any different and therefore be worried about what was impending ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Pardew didn't dare piss Ba off because he wasn't convinced the club would replace him. Same reason why Ameobi was refused permission to go to the Africa Cup of Nations. Pathetic really, hope we've seen the end of that shit. I'm not so sure. I think it was a misjudgement borne of over-confidence in his abilities. He thought he could manage a situation that was actually not manageable. The better decision would have been to cut one's losses early. I mean, he actually promised Ba, in public, that he'd play 90% of his games down the centre. It can't be right for a manager to be publicly dictated to by a player like that. That's aside from whether it was the right decision in football terms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Newcastle United 0 - 1 West Ham United Newcastle United 1 - 2 Swansea City Southampton 2 - 0 Newcastle United Stoke City 2 - 1 Newcastle United Newcastle United 3 - 0 Wigan Athletic Fulham 2 - 1 Newcastle United Newcastle United 1 - 3 Manchester City Newcastle United 1 - 0 Queens Park Rangers Manchester United 4 - 3 Newcastle United Arsenal 7 - 3 Newcastle United Newcastle United 1 - 2 Everton Norwich City 0 - 0 Newcastle United Newcastle United 1 - 2 Reading That really shouldn't have happened It's interesting the fine margins we're talking about here between Pardew being considered successful (or not). Forgetting about injuries etc. I'd say we only had four very bad games in that run (West Ham, Southampton, Fulham and Reading). Swansea I didn't think we were great but I thought we were unlucky to be hit on the break for the second goal when we were really pressing them for an equaliser, Stoke we were OK and got caught by two late goals, City always going to be tough, Man U we played some great stuff but then got beat in the last minute, Arsenal we again played some great stuff for 70 minutes and then unfortunately fell apart (can be partly attributed to Arsenal not playing on Boxing Day I think) and then Everton not amazing but beaten by 1 goal by a top 7 team. Am I happy with what happened during that run? No. But I do think that Pardew probably wasn't far off picking up a few more points during that run. On the flip side we were unfairly given a penalty against Wigan and them a man sent off, we were 10 minutes from a draw at home to QPR and a late Grant Holt header away from defeat at Carrow Road. It works both ways. Alan Skarare Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Pardew didn't dare piss Ba off because he wasn't convinced the club would replace him. Same reason why Ameobi was refused permission to go to the Africa Cup of Nations. Pathetic really, hope we've seen the end of that shit. I said at the time that I understood why he was doing it, it was still the wrong thing to do though, 100%. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Pardew didn't dare p*ss Ba off because he wasn't convinced the club would replace him. Same reason why Ameobi was refused permission to go to the Africa Cup of Nations. Pathetic really, hope we've seen the end of that s***. I'm not so sure. I think it was a misjudgement borne of over-confidence in his abilities. He thought he could manage a situation that was actually not manageable. The better decision would have been to cut one's losses early. I mean, he actually promised Ba, in public, that he'd play 90% of his games down the centre. It can't be right for a manager to be publicly dictated to by a player like that. That's aside from whether it was the right decision in football terms. I saw that decision one of the worst he made , and thought he was a moron to under state the team for just one selfish player. Some of his loyalty showings are just too much, it was not like we sold Ba for 70 Million pounds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I read a stat on Spurs that they are 11th in te possession rankings. Good for thought IMO. AVB has received a lot of credit on here for controlling games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Pardew gets over criticised for te Ba situation. He saw Ba as the main man and positioned him as such. That is what you do with your star players. Partly, it was to help convince Ba to stay but Ba was justifying it with his performances. We all forgot that he actually dropped Ba unfairly at Everton. Ba comes on, scores twice and gets us a point by himself. At that moment, Ba was #1 in Pardews mind and he saw how vital Ba was. Clean sheets and Demba Ba goals was the foundation of last seasons success lets not forget. Can't blame him for trying to get back to that. Didn't work. Fair enough. But it wasn't horrible management by any shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 It was one of Pardew's biggest mistakes. No way should Ba have been prioritised in the way he was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Truthfully, I don't think it cost is any/many points. Seemingly Ba was popular in the dressing room, was said he and Cabaye where seen as leaders of the French speakers. Would've caused more disruption benching or playing the current goal scorer wide for someone woefully out of form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I think it was a big mistake to ever move Cisse out of the centre, but I'm still not convinced that Pardew was doing it 100% to keep Ba happy. Not that it matters now anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Pardew gets over criticised for te Ba situation. He saw Ba as the main man and positioned him as such. That is what you do with your star players. Partly, it was to help convince Ba to stay but Ba was justifying it with his performances. We all forgot that he actually dropped Ba unfairly at Everton. Ba comes on, scores twice and gets us a point by himself. At that moment, Ba was #1 in Pardews mind and he saw how vital Ba was. Clean sheets and Demba Ba goals was the foundation of last seasons success lets not forget. Can't blame him for trying to get back to that. Didn't work. Fair enough. But it wasn't horrible management by any shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Pardew gets over criticised for te Ba situation. He saw Ba as the main man and positioned him as such. That is what you do with your star players. Partly, it was to help convince Ba to stay but Ba was justifying it with his performances. We all forgot that he actually dropped Ba unfairly at Everton. Ba comes on, scores twice and gets us a point by himself. At that moment, Ba was #1 in Pardews mind and he saw how vital Ba was. Clean sheets and Demba Ba goals was the foundation of last seasons success lets not forget. Can't blame him for trying to get back to that. Didn't work. Fair enough. But it wasn't horrible management by any shot. Any time someone puts the individual over the needs of an entire team its horrible management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Pardew gets over criticised for te Ba situation. He saw Ba as the main man and positioned him as such. That is what you do with your star players. Partly, it was to help convince Ba to stay but Ba was justifying it with his performances. We all forgot that he actually dropped Ba unfairly at Everton. Ba comes on, scores twice and gets us a point by himself. At that moment, Ba was #1 in Pardews mind and he saw how vital Ba was. Clean sheets and Demba Ba goals was the foundation of last seasons success lets not forget. Can't blame him for trying to get back to that. Didn't work. Fair enough. But it wasn't horrible management by any shot. Any time someone puts the individual over the needs of an entire team its horrible management. Aye and I think many of us are in agreement that fitting Ba centrally made the team suffer even though he himself performed fantastically. The problem wasn't really Ba but rather Pardew's reluctance to choose between him and Cissé, resulting in the horrible 4-4-2 with long-balls being our only way forward, or Cissé on the wing where he's horribly rubbish. So either way you look at it, Pardew really didn't get it right and should be blamed for the situation in my opinion. Had Pardew managed to structure his team in a way that allowed us to play football properly, we might have seen a side playing well with Ba in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Don't believe that for a second personally. Demba Ba was like our Bale, RVP, Suarez. Match winner, you put your match winners where they will be most devastating fr the team. Pardew thought that was Ba not Cisse. That's all. I dot think Cisse should've been wide either. The logic is clear and it makes sense. When we have no rhythm, focus on keeping clean sheets and Demba Ba will most likely score a scruffy goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 We look a far better outfit and far more likely to score goals post-Ba. Just saying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 We look a far better outfit and far more likely to score goals post-Ba. Just saying. Although many will counter that statement with the new arrivals, I think you make a good point. The chemistry of the team looks better post Ba, and the general "meh" type reaction to such a brilliant player's departure probably indicates most fans knew that already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenige Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 We look a far better outfit and far more likely to score goals post-Ba. Just saying. Post-Ba with the new and uninjured players we have now yeah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Tottenham aren't playing poor though so Bale playing out of his skin is irrelevant, it's not like other players are suffering because of their system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Tottenham aren't playing poor though so Bale playing out of his skin is irrelevant, it's not like other players are suffering because of their system. The other players aren't playing that well TBH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Defoe then Bale have kept Tottenham going like Ba then Cisse did for us last year. I don't know if that's actually true but it sounds good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slippery Sam Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Pardew gets over criticised for te Ba situation. He saw Ba as the main man and positioned him as such. That is what you do with your star players. Partly, it was to help convince Ba to stay but Ba was justifying it with his performances. We all forgot that he actually dropped Ba unfairly at Everton. Ba comes on, scores twice and gets us a point by himself. At that moment, Ba was #1 in Pardews mind and he saw how vital Ba was. Clean sheets and Demba Ba goals was the foundation of last seasons success lets not forget. Can't blame him for trying to get back to that. Didn't work. Fair enough. But it wasn't horrible management by any shot. So Ba as centre forward last season wasn't a star player? You said, above, that 'that's what you do with your star players' i.e. play them in their best postion. I would have said Ba was a star player. He then gets shifted when Cisse arrives; what's that all about? You then say that Ba was dropped at Everton? Is that what you do to your star players? Genuine questions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Don't believe that for a second personally. Demba Ba was like our Bale, RVP, Suarez. Match winner, you put your match winners where they will be most devastating fr the team. Pardew thought that was Ba not Cisse. That's all. I dot think Cisse should've been wide either. The logic is clear and it makes sense. When we have no rhythm, focus on keeping clean sheets and Demba Ba will most likely score a scruffy goal. Difference is those players don't effect the overall play or system of the team, Ba did... I always said the team would be better without him and function much better and lo and behold.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Don't believe that for a second personally. Demba Ba was like our Bale, RVP, Suarez. Match winner, you put your match winners where they will be most devastating fr the team. Pardew thought that was Ba not Cisse. That's all. I dot think Cisse should've been wide either. The logic is clear and it makes sense. When we have no rhythm, focus on keeping clean sheets and Demba Ba will most likely score a scruffy goal. Difference is those players don't effect the overall play or system of the team, Ba did... I always said the team would be better without him and function much better and lo and behold.... Not counting Everton, Norwich and Reading then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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