Alan Pardew

[Spudil]

The lack of goals from set plays is a big marker of his shortcomings. How hard is it to sort out some imaginative/effective set pieces?

 

What can Pardew do about that? I mean he does them in training but what can he do if the players simply don't score from them/defend them properly in a match?

 

 

What can he do? How about his job

 

 

I was being sarcastic Just using the ridiculous line of reasoning that Pardews lovers

if they are going to call people Pardew "haters"

use to excuse a whole manner of his failings to show how absurd it is.

 

pardew gets an insane amount of leeway from some people like, 3 points off relegation 7 games to go 

 

At the same time, people have quickly written off the fact he took us to the last game of the season away from a Champions League spot.

 

One great season, one s*** season. I'm in the camp where I think he has earned the chance to put it right. If we're still struggling come October or November next season, he deserves to be sacked. If we're back challenging the top 6, we were right to stand by him.

 

agree- the ones wanting him sacked now will start again with the next manager after 3 or 4 defeats.

 

Bollocks.

 

It's complete and utter bollocks, obviously.

 

[cp40]

The lack of goals from set plays is a big marker of his shortcomings. How hard is it to sort out some imaginative/effective set pieces?

 

What can Pardew do about that? I mean he does them in training but what can he do if the players simply don't score from them/defend them properly in a match?

 

 

What can he do? How about his job

 

 

I was being sarcastic Just using the ridiculous line of reasoning that Pardews lovers

if they are going to call people Pardew "haters"

use to excuse a whole manner of his failings to show how absurd it is.

 

pardew gets an insane amount of leeway from some people like, 3 points off relegation 7 games to go 

 

At the same time, people have quickly written off the fact he took us to the last game of the season away from a Champions League spot.

 

One great season, one shit season. I'm in the camp where I think he has earned the chance to put it right. If we're still struggling come October or November next season, he deserves to be sacked. If we're back challenging the top 6, we were right to stand by him.

 

agree- the ones wanting him sacked now will start again with the next manager after 3 or 4 defeats.

 

Bollocks.

 

 

[Guest Roy the Irish Magpie]

Good chance it's been mentioned before but don't forget David Moyes had a brilliant first full season with Everton in 03 finishing in the top 7 but struggled in his second much like Pardew is now nd barely kept the club up with a 17th position finish.

 

I'm sure there was Everton fans at that time wanting him out for a poor season and criticising him and calling him a "one season wonder" but sure didn't he only go and finish fourth the next season.

 

Pardew hasn't done well this season no, but definitely deserves to stay for the start of next season nd then see how he does with a fresh start and no Europa League to interrupt the league fixtures and injure players etc.

 

Edit : Might I also add he got manager of the year in his first full season much like Pardew ha. Don't be too eager to pull the trigger lads.

[Dave]

Moyes' record:

http://i.imgur.com/FcfGTeu.png

 

Whilst I certainly don't expect us to finish 4th next season, if we stick with Pardew I do expect the up/down pattern to be similar. Time will tell if we improve our consistency beyond that, like Everton have done.

[Stu]

If we were to sack him in the summer (despite being in champs league): what does that say about the culture at our club?

 

 

 

Are you taking something?

 

Sorry, was obviously herping the derp earlier on...meant Prem League

[Stu]

Good chance it's been mentioned before but don't forget David Moyes had a brilliant first full season with Everton in 03 finishing in the top 7 but struggled in his second much like Pardew is now nd barely kept the club up with a 17th position finish.

 

I'm sure there was Everton fans at that time wanting him out for a poor season and criticising him and calling him a "one season wonder" but sure didn't he only go and finish fourth the next season.

 

Pardew hasn't done well this season no, but definitely deserves to stay for the start of next season nd then see how he does with a fresh start and no Europa League to interrupt the league fixtures and injure players etc.

 

Edit : Might I also add he got manager of the year in his first full season much like Pardew ha. Don't be too eager to pull the trigger lads.

 

Moyes' record:

http://i.imgur.com/FcfGTeu.png

 

Whilst I certainly don't expect us to finish 4th next season, if we stick with Pardew I do expect the up/down pattern to be similar. Time will tell if we improve our consistency beyond that, like Everton have done.

 

part of my optimism about Pardew is based on what happened at Everton...they weren't quick to see off the new man, despite escaping relegation on the last weekend (after qualifying for Europe the year before).

 

As Dave says, I'm not expecting top four next season but certainly a sustained campaign in the top third of the table, rather than the bottom third. Subsequent European campaigns will show if the club (and the manager) have really learnt the lessons from the past summer.

[Lotus]

Moyes' record:

http://i.imgur.com/FcfGTeu.png

 

Whilst I certainly don't expect us to finish 4th next season, if we stick with Pardew I do expect the up/down pattern to be similar. Time will tell if we improve our consistency beyond that, like Everton have done.

 

Tbf though, i would say that Pardew has had more joy in the transfer windows than Moyes on balance. Maybe Neil can shed some light on this.

[Stu]

How is that a contrary point?

[Keefaz]

I'm not a massive fan by any means, but let's give him another season with his players, a good pre-season and experience. Having said that, I fully expect him to be gone in January 2014.

[Spudil]

part of my optimism about Pardew is based on what happened at Everton...

 

 

 

 

 

[George Bailey]

I'm not a massive fan by any means, but let's give him another season with his players, a good pre-season and experience. Having said that, I fully expect him to be gone in January 2014.

 

Ditto.

Not convinced but...Providing we stay up:a good summer transfer window, replacing the likes of Colo (if he leaves),sort out the striker and width issue, retain the quality we already have and then give him a fair crack of the whip.

If he can't get a more attractive style, with improved results then he's gotta go.

 

Not convinced he has the capacity to learn and adapt if I'm honest though.

 

 

 

[jimmymag]

If we manage to avoid relegation, and are lucky enough to play in the Premiership next season, I fully expect a whole lot more shite football from a squad that is so full of potential but will only get dragged down by Pardew's management/coaching or whatever the fuck he calls it!

 

It must be only a matter of time before there is some dissent in the camp, surely the players must be starting to see through the shyster.

[Away Toon]

Mick's post pretty much sums it up for me. I don't believe that he's a good manager particularly, and don't think he will improve. We have some good players, playing the least entertaining football in the Premier League. Not only is it horrible to watch, we are in serious danger of being relegated. With any other owner (one who hadn't given his manager a 8 year contract) he'd have been sacked, as have lots of other managers down at the bottom with us.

[Guest bimpy474]

You could say it's a fair comparison with Moyes. With one draw back. Moyes is a better manager, does anyone really think a manager like Moyes would have let our set pieces go on like this.

 

Our set pieces are an embarrassment to a professional football club. I've watched football since, well birth, i'm 42 and i have never seen a team as bad as us, i have never seen a team try the same floated corner 500 times on the trot. Without a player, coach, ha manager say, lets try something different, short na, long na, drilled na, i know lets try that floated one again.

 

Embarrassing.

[Stu]

Mick's post pretty much sums it up for me. I don't believe that he's a good manager particularly, and don't think he will improve. We have some good players, playing the least entertaining football in the Premier League. Not only is it horrible to watch, we are in serious danger of being relegated. With any other owner (one who hadn't given his manager a 8 year contract) he'd have been sacked, as have lots of other managers down at the bottom with us.

 

So why didn't Kenwright sack Moyes in the season they finished 17th?

[Away Toon]

Ask Kenwright, I've no fucking idea. Why do people want to argue about the indefensible? Even if you can find an excuse for the results this season, surely nobody can defend the negative aimless horrible football we play.

[Stu]

You're the one who stated that any other owner would have sacked his manager for being "down at the bottom with us" - the Moyes example is one that contradicts your claim (and has been mentioned recently in the thread).

 

I don't think anyone has argued that we're playing beautiful football this season. Not sure why you're throwing that straw man about.

 

Some of us see a benefit for the club in adopting a culture of giving managers 3+ seasons before deciding if they're going to get a longer spell. It may well turn out that Pardew is as limited as many on here are claiming and that last season was a freak set of results; however, by moving away from the knee-jerk culture of the past decade surely makes us a more attractive position for a bold, up and coming manager who knows he'll need a couple of seasons to get the playing squad playing exactly how he likes it?

 

Chopping and changing didn't do us any favours under Shepherd; it certainly didn't do us any favours under Ashley (2009), so why keep pushing this strategy now?

 

Of course, we wouldn't need to change managers if the people in charge appointed the 'right one' first time around...but then, if it was that easy, every team would be doing it.

[Wullie]

Haven't got the foggiest idea why Moyes is always brought up when there's dozens of examples of managers who've had a decent season at some point in their career then gone to shit.

 

How is the Moyes situation even vaguely comparable? Other than Rooney still in nappies, the squad was a right load of old toss for a start.

[mrmojorisin75]

Mick's post pretty much sums it up for me. I don't believe that he's a good manager particularly, and don't think he will improve. We have some good players, playing the least entertaining football in the Premier League. Not only is it horrible to watch, we are in serious danger of being relegated. With any other owner (one who hadn't given his manager a 8 year contract) he'd have been sacked, as have lots of other managers down at the bottom with us.

 

So why didn't Kenwright sack Moyes in the season they finished 17th?

 

moyes has more or less been forced to operate on scraps since he went there, in his first 2-3 years he had nothing like the backing and quality players pardew has had in his time here imo...even young rooney was sold before he had much chance of an impact

 

also, touching on what mick has said, prior to everton moyes progess was all upward unless i'm mistaken...preston manager right? so they've backed him on their belief in him and his short upward track record, pardew has a decade behind him which some people are writing off as irrelevant...well if his managerial record is irrelevant then using moyes as an example to back him is surely even more irrelevant?

[Wullie]

Mick's post pretty much sums it up for me. I don't believe that he's a good manager particularly, and don't think he will improve. We have some good players, playing the least entertaining football in the Premier League. Not only is it horrible to watch, we are in serious danger of being relegated. With any other owner (one who hadn't given his manager a 8 year contract) he'd have been sacked, as have lots of other managers down at the bottom with us.

 

So why didn't Kenwright sack Moyes in the season they finished 17th?

 

Because he wasn't given a team full of expensive internationals probably. Of course any other club would have sacked a manager performing this poorly with these players.

 

You've fucking changed your tune since you said two months ago that we should be winning every single game. Now we're losing every game but that's still deemed ok.

[mrmojorisin75]

The lack of goals from set plays is a big marker of his shortcomings. How hard is it to sort out some imaginative/effective set pieces?

 

What can Pardew do about that? I mean he does them in training but what can he do if the players simply don't score from them/defend them properly in a match?

 

 

What can he do? How about his job

 

 

I was being sarcastic Just using the ridiculous line of reasoning that Pardews lovers

if they are going to call people Pardew "haters"

use to excuse a whole manner of his failings to show how absurd it is.

 

pardew gets an insane amount of leeway from some people like, 3 points off relegation 7 games to go 

 

At the same time, people have quickly written off the fact he took us to the last game of the season away from a Champions League spot.

 

One great season, one s*** season. I'm in the camp where I think he has earned the chance to put it right. If we're still struggling come October or November next season, he deserves to be sacked. If we're back challenging the top 6, we were right to stand by him.

 

Spot on.  I think the thread should be closed on that post.

 

What concerns me is even last season how many games were fans saying that the tactics were not right within a lot of games - I can think of a number of games when wonder strikes won games after being second best within the actual game. I just see the same basic mistakes and poor tactical line ups and plans being used game after game. His overall record at a management level is not very good either and we look like conceding against any opposition no mater what formation or players we have played. If I had been able to see any sign of errors being addressed or problem areas being worked on I would agree but it's just not happening and that has to be down to the coaching standards as the same things have been ongoing all season long.

 

this is me down to a tee, i was saying this exact thing last season when things were going well along with Tron and a few others and haven't changed my stance

 

i'd can him if it was my call but i'm not rabid about it, i agree that if we stay up and he gets some more quality players we'll have a better season next year (could hardly be worse), so let's keep him by all means...but i hope everyone is prepared for the same gameplan

 

again i reiterate that what makes a good/great manager is success in the face of adversity, to pull results out when everything is against you, and if this season has proven anything it's that pardew can not do this, not even close

[Stu]

I said we 'could' be winning the most of our games during the run in. I was assuming a fairly fit squad to choose from, mind. Did not envisage having to play Simpson.

[Pata]

You're the one who stated that any other owner would have sacked his manager for being "down at the bottom with us" - the Moyes example is one that contradicts your claim (and has been mentioned recently in the thread).

 

I don't think anyone has argued that we're playing beautiful football this season. Not sure why you're throwing that straw man about.

 

Some of us see a benefit for the club in adopting a culture of giving managers 3+ seasons before deciding if they're going to get a longer spell. It may well turn out that Pardew is as limited as many on here are claiming and that last season was a freak set of results; however, by moving away from the knee-jerk culture of the past decade surely makes us a more attractive position for a bold, up and coming manager who knows he'll need a couple of seasons to get the playing squad playing exactly how he likes it?

 

Chopping and changing didn't do us any favours under Shepherd; it certainly didn't do us any favours under Ashley (2009), so why keep pushing this strategy now?

 

Of course, we wouldn't need to change managers if the people in charge appointed the 'right one' first time around...but then, if it was that easy, every team would be doing it.

 

Totally agree.

[mrmojorisin75]

I said we 'could' be winning the most of our games during the run in. I was assuming a fairly fit squad to choose from, mind. Did not envisage having to play Simpson.

 

in pardew's defence i'll admit that HBA not returning must have been a massive blow, i think him and sissoko could seriously tear it up and it might have changed our fortunes had he returned when expected

 

but then it's his job to work around that and he hasn't succeeded

[Wullie]

Most of the other Premier League teams seem to manage to win away games without Ben Arfa. We treat it as if it's the only possible way such a feat can be achieved.

 

Not sure how much effect Simpson had in the standard away defeats at Swansea, Wigan and Spurs. Looked pretty much the same without him as it has been with him - losing.

 

I don't believe Pardew could mastermind another away win regardless of who was fit. He didn't manage at the start of the season, nor really when he was bought half a new team. He did beat Villa though so fair play - suspect that'll be the "he finished 5th" next season, the "magic" win over Aston Villa.