Newcastle United 1 - 1 Aston Villa - 02/09/12 - post-match reaction from page 39

[johnnypd]

Highlights didn't show how truely awful we were 1st half, it was soul destroying stuff. We let villa play, fuking wrapped it up in a big bow with lots of kisses.

 

2nd half were better but we looked shaky and a better or more clinical team would have seen us off.p

 

Ref was a bottle job as well, probably the only thing on par with out shit 1st half.

 

Agreed. quite lucky to get a draw really.

[Dave]

These highlights do show that villa had the majority of the better chances.

 

Absolutely, Pards summed it up very well in his post match on Sky. Said we had most of the play but probably Villa were the team most likely to feel they could've got all 3 points.

 

Cisse and Ba really need some coaching about how to play together. They both just mince around in front of the back four. Ba ought to drop deeper and cisse needs to run the channels more. I thought Ba was the better of the two today (not a compliment).

 

I really think its only the inability of the CF's to work together is the biggest hindrance of the 4-4-2. We are left with no purpose to our attacks.

 

Also the whole 4-4-2 4-3-3 debate thing is becoming a bit of a joke. Today it was the players who let us down they need to take some responsibility. Its interesting how critical a lot of posters are in the Player threads yet don't criticise them anywhere near as much as the system they are playing in.

 

1 or 2 poor performances you can often attribute to a specific system. 5 or 6 is inexcusable.

 

Feel Anita, Santon, Bigi, HBA (though often lacking purpose IMO) and Colo were the best of our lot today.

 

Good post, totally agree with that. The bit about the system in particular.

[maybe_next_year]

have to say, a really dissapointing thing for me was the crowd, during the first half quite a lot of people near me we really tearing into our players. there's just no need, havn't heard it that bad since the relegation season,

[Dave]

have to say, a really dissapointing thing for me was the crowd, during the first half quite a lot of people near me we really tearing into our players. there's just no need, havn't heard it that bad since the relegation season,

 

Glad there wasn't any booing though. Well, none was audible on the telly anyway.

[johnnypd]

These highlights do show that villa had the majority of the better chances.

 

Absolutely, Pards summed it up very well in his post match on Sky. Said we had most of the play but probably Villa were the team most likely to feel they could've got all 3 points.

 

Cisse and Ba really need some coaching about how to play together. They both just mince around in front of the back four. Ba ought to drop deeper and cisse needs to run the channels more. I thought Ba was the better of the two today (not a compliment).

 

I really think its only the inability of the CF's to work together is the biggest hindrance of the 4-4-2. We are left with no purpose to our attacks.

 

Also the whole 4-4-2 4-3-3 debate thing is becoming a bit of a joke. Today it was the players who let us down they need to take some responsibility. Its interesting how critical a lot of posters are in the Player threads yet don't criticise them anywhere near as much as the system they are playing in.

 

1 or 2 poor performances you can often attribute to a specific system. 5 or 6 is inexcusable.

 

Feel Anita, Santon, Bigi, HBA (though often lacking purpose IMO) and Colo were the best of our lot today.

 

Ba and Cisse's inability to play together up front probably is the biggest problem with a 4-4-2, but it is by no means the only problem. Yorkie's summed up most of them in the relevant thread so no point relisting them.

 

Also, coaching can only go so far - you can't turn them into different players when they both line up through the middle. years of previous coaching, instinct, and to be frank - goal scoring greed - will usually trump that. If you force them to take up a different position, of course, they kind of have to live with it.

 

As for the bolded part - i'd say the opposite is true. the longer it goes on the clearer a sign that it is the system that is culpable. not saying it's the only issue at present - i also think fitness, the extra demands and decreased preparation time that comes with European qualification, and questionable attitude from one of two like Cabaye play a role, but the formation is compounding and amplifying these issues.

 

Case in point - is Cabaye isn't moving around the pitch freely than you should seek to remedy that by surrounding him with more mobile players. this happened to a degree 2nd half and we and him improved a tad. same rationale should be applied to other issues we have = ie Ba and Cisse not gelling, Ben Arfa stranded too deep etc.

[Cronky]

Good to see a right back who actually wants the ball.

[Jordan]

Is Anita right or left footed? was so certain he was left but looked very comfortable on right. I'd have him on the left and Santon right next week.

[Chicken Dancer]

Back home now, Villa better team, we were frustrating as fuck.

 

Someone tell me the formation we played? Needs sorted asap this like. Every set piece we took was shit btw, Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Bigi and Marveaux included.

[alexf]

Is Anita right or left footed? was so certain he was left but looked very comfortable on right. I'd have him on the left and Santon right next week.

 

He's right footed mate.

[Alberto2005]

Is Anita right or left footed? was so certain he was left but looked very comfortable on right. I'd have him on the left and Santon right next week.

Right.

[Chicken Dancer]

Set piece work needed ASAP. Cabaye can't take corners like. Also the fact we've never came from behind to win under Pardew (in the league) is worrying.

[Lotus]

Ba'a best performances in a 4-4-2 have been with the other striker running around doing the dirty work for him. Cole and Wham and Best for us last season (with an occasional blinder from Shola). Having a guy who's willing to run the channels, compete for the ball, flick it on, etc. Ba has good instincts and thrives off the opportunities having a hard working partner give him.

Cisse is not a foil in a million years though.

These guys are in their prime and have been successful playing their natural game. Neither one of them is is going to give up what comes natural to them when playing through the middle. They can't even do it for Senegal. They just don't work well together when both upfront and i don't think they'll ever do it with any consistency. Maybe the odd game or two but not for long.

[johnnypd]

Ba'a best performances in a 4-4-2 have been with the other striker running around doing the dirty work for him. Cole and Wham and Best for us last season (with an occasional blinder from Shola). Having a guy who's willing to run the channels, compete for the ball, flick it on, etc. Ba has good instincts and thrives off the opportunities having a hard working partner give him.

Cisse is not a foil in a million years though.

 

These guys are in their prime and have been successful playing their natural game. Neither one of them is is going to give up what comes natural to them when playing through the middle. They can't even do it for Senegal. They just don't work well together when both upfront and i don't think they'll ever do it with any consistency. Maybe the odd game or two but not for long.

 

Very well said. Best wasn't the greatest targetman in the world either but fought for every scrap and basically sacrificed his own forward play for Ba and it worked.

 

Ba also looked decent alongside HBA for a couple of games when Hatem took up a beardsley-esque role in the side. Not quite as natural as Best-Ba but they worked up some good moves with one another and i think it would've improved over time.

 

Point is you need to mix and match different players to complement each other. You can't just have two number 9s who each want to do the same things and expect them to get it to work on their own.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Set piece work needed ASAP. Cabaye can't take corners like. Also the fact we've never came from behind to win under Pardew (in the league) is worrying.

 

Cabaye definitely can. Everyone (Ben Arfa included) seems shin at it. You're right about not winning like. I think we used it all up on the Arsenal 4-4.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

These highlights do show that villa had the majority of the better chances.

 

Absolutely, Pards summed it up very well in his post match on Sky. Said we had most of the play but probably Villa were the team most likely to feel they could've got all 3 points.

 

Cisse and Ba really need some coaching about how to play together. They both just mince around in front of the back four. Ba ought to drop deeper and cisse needs to run the channels more. I thought Ba was the better of the two today (not a compliment).

 

I really think its only the inability of the CF's to work together is the biggest hindrance of the 4-4-2. We are left with no purpose to our attacks.

 

Also the whole 4-4-2 4-3-3 debate thing is becoming a bit of a joke. Today it was the players who let us down they need to take some responsibility. Its interesting how critical a lot of posters are in the Player threads yet don't criticise them anywhere near as much as the system they are playing in.

 

1 or 2 poor performances you can often attribute to a specific system. 5 or 6 is inexcusable.

 

Feel Anita, Santon, Bigi, HBA (though often lacking purpose IMO) and Colo were the best of our lot today.

 

Ba and Cisse's inability to play together up front probably is the biggest problem with a 4-4-2, but it is by no means the only problem. Yorkie's summed up most of them in the relevant thread so no point relisting them.

 

Also, coaching can only go so far - you can't turn them into different players when they both line up through the middle. years of previous coaching, instinct, and to be frank - goal scoring greed - will usually trump that. If you force them to take up a different position, of course, they kind of have to live with it.

 

As for the bolded part - i'd say the opposite is true. the longer it goes on the clearer a sign that it is the system that is culpable. not saying it's the only issue at present - i also think fitness, the extra demands and decreased preparation time that comes with European qualification, and questionable attitude from one of two like Cabaye play a role, but the formation is compounding and amplifying these issues.

 

Case in point - is Cabaye isn't moving around the pitch freely than you should seek to remedy that by surrounding him with more mobile players. this happened to a degree 2nd half and we and him improved a tad. same rationale should be applied to other issues we have = ie Ba and Cisse not gelling, Ben Arfa stranded too deep etc.

 

If the biggest problem with the system can be rectified then I think that 1 point today becomes 3. Then the size of other perceived inefficiencies diminishes.

 

Sorry to pick on that point in your second paragraph but to attribute a degree of fault to their previous coaching (I know other factors are listed) whilst saying coaching can only go so far seems a little backward. Also its not rocket science. Ba was dropping deep when lining up with ameobi and best last season. Asking Cisse to run channels occasionally will also stretch defences and allow ben arfa some support in advanced wide areas whilst giving him space to run into. I would say the situation is not too dissimilar to when SBR came in and told Shearer that he had his back to goal too much ('im not seeing your number 9').  Im not trying to revolutionise either of their play but it would enable us to stretch teams more and arguably therefore create more chances for the two of them.

 

Agree with you on the movement off the ball though. Its worrying just how static we are.

 

Good post  always interesting to hear how other people see our problems, though its making me think way too much for this late on a sunday.

 

 

[midds]

The amount of corners that get cleared by the first man is getting ridiculous. 80% don't even get past the near post.

 

Fucking infuriating to watch it happen time after time after time.

[Alberto2005]

Obertan did decent in the 5 minute spell he had.

 

 

[johnnypd]

These highlights do show that villa had the majority of the better chances.

 

Absolutely, Pards summed it up very well in his post match on Sky. Said we had most of the play but probably Villa were the team most likely to feel they could've got all 3 points.

 

Cisse and Ba really need some coaching about how to play together. They both just mince around in front of the back four. Ba ought to drop deeper and cisse needs to run the channels more. I thought Ba was the better of the two today (not a compliment).

 

I really think its only the inability of the CF's to work together is the biggest hindrance of the 4-4-2. We are left with no purpose to our attacks.

 

Also the whole 4-4-2 4-3-3 debate thing is becoming a bit of a joke. Today it was the players who let us down they need to take some responsibility. Its interesting how critical a lot of posters are in the Player threads yet don't criticise them anywhere near as much as the system they are playing in.

 

1 or 2 poor performances you can often attribute to a specific system. 5 or 6 is inexcusable.

 

Feel Anita, Santon, Bigi, HBA (though often lacking purpose IMO) and Colo were the best of our lot today.

 

Ba and Cisse's inability to play together up front probably is the biggest problem with a 4-4-2, but it is by no means the only problem. Yorkie's summed up most of them in the relevant thread so no point relisting them.

 

Also, coaching can only go so far - you can't turn them into different players when they both line up through the middle. years of previous coaching, instinct, and to be frank - goal scoring greed - will usually trump that. If you force them to take up a different position, of course, they kind of have to live with it.

 

As for the bolded part - i'd say the opposite is true. the longer it goes on the clearer a sign that it is the system that is culpable. not saying it's the only issue at present - i also think fitness, the extra demands and decreased preparation time that comes with European qualification, and questionable attitude from one of two like Cabaye play a role, but the formation is compounding and amplifying these issues.

 

Case in point - is Cabaye isn't moving around the pitch freely than you should seek to remedy that by surrounding him with more mobile players. this happened to a degree 2nd half and we and him improved a tad. same rationale should be applied to other issues we have = ie Ba and Cisse not gelling, Ben Arfa stranded too deep etc.

 

If the biggest problem with the system can be rectified then I think that 1 point today becomes 3. Then the size of other perceived inefficiencies diminishes.

 

Sorry to pick on that point in your second paragraph but to attribute a degree of fault to their previous coaching (I know other factors are listed) whilst saying coaching can only go so far seems a little backward. Also its not rocket science. Ba was dropping deep when lining up with ameobi and best last season. Asking Cisse to run channels occasionally will also stretch defences and allow ben arfa some support in advanced wide areas whilst giving him space to run into. I would say the situation is not too dissimilar to when SBR came in and told Shearer that he had his back to goal too much ('im not seeing your number 9').  Im not trying to revolutionise either of their play but it would enable us to stretch teams more and arguably therefore create more chances for the two of them.

 

Agree with you on the movement off the ball though. Its worrying just how static we are.

 

Good post  always interesting to hear how other people see our problems, though its making me think way too much for this late on a sunday.

 

 

 

It might be the biggest problem but it doesn't outweigh the other issues. so even if you rectify that you've only gone, say, a third of the way to addressing the present issues.

 

As for coaching - i'm talking about the years and years of developmental coaching they've received from the ages of 7 up and at previosu clubs which all help turn you into the player you are today. a couple of hours a week over a month or two is going to make very little dent on that. you can tweak and tailor but you can't completely overhaul a player's innate qualities and instincts like that in a short space of time.

[Chicken Dancer]

Set piece work needed ASAP. Cabaye can't take corners like. Also the fact we've never came from behind to win under Pardew (in the league) is worrying.

 

Cabaye definitely can. Everyone (Ben Arfa included) seems shin at it. You're right about not winning like. I think we used it all up on the Arsenal 4-4.

 

I'm sorry like. I love Cabaye, plus he is glorious to look at, but can he fuck take corners. The only player in our squad who can is Raylor. It's worrying to be honest, at the point now where when we get a corner I think ffs.

[Dave]

The amount of corners that get cleared by the first man is getting ridiculous. 80% don't even get past the near post.

 

Fucking infuriating to watch it happen time after time after time.

 

What bongles my head is that surely it makes sense - if you're constantly struggling to beat the first man - to put someone there in a NUFC shirt? To try and flick it on, have a shot directly on goal, even just to try and put the defender off. There must be some outstanding reason why we don't do this.

[Mick]

I'm surprised that we haven't tried to play more short corners to Ben Arfa running into the box, we'd get more from them than hitting the first defender.

[johnnypd]

I'm surprised that we haven't tried to play more short corners to Ben Arfa running into the box, we'd get more from them than hitting the first defender.

 

Agree. The only possible reason I can think of is that Pardew is worried about Ben Arfa losing the ball with our centre-halves marooned in the opposition box.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Set piece work needed ASAP. Cabaye can't take corners like. Also the fact we've never came from behind to win under Pardew (in the league) is worrying.

 

Cabaye definitely can. Everyone (Ben Arfa included) seems shin at it. You're right about not winning like. I think we used it all up on the Arsenal 4-4.

 

I'm sorry like. I love Cabaye, plus he is glorious to look at, but can he f*** take corners. The only player in our squad who can is Raylor. It's worrying to be honest, at the point now where when we get a corner I think ffs.

 

He can take corners. He's just been garbage recently. Im hoping he sorts it out soon. We desperately need him to play closer to Ba, Cisse and Ben Arfa. Don't forget, Cabaye is a seriously brilliant player. It's just a phase love.

[SiLvOR]

I'm surprised that we haven't tried to play more short corners to Ben Arfa running into the box, we'd get more from them than hitting the first defender.

 

Agree. The only possible reason I can think of is that Pardew is worried about Ben Arfa losing the ball with our centre-halves marooned in the opposition box.

 

Which is a valid concern tbh. Plus if we keep doing it, he'd just get ganged up on and crowded out. Would rather simply try and get better deliveries into the box, also agree with what you say Dave, it's what Arsenal are doing at the moment and it looks like a pretty decent tactic imo

[Dave]

I'm surprised that we haven't tried to play more short corners to Ben Arfa running into the box, we'd get more from them than hitting the first defender.

 

Was it when Barton left, he was allegedly unhappy that he wasn't going to be the one taking the set pieces any more? Perhaps we're now in the same situation with Cabaye, he wants to be doing it every time.

 

I find it astonishing that normally we don't mix it up at all. When Ben Arfa was on them against Spurs you at least thought something unusual might happen. As luck would have it, that won us the match.