Newcastle United 1 - 1 Aston Villa - 02/09/12 - post-match reaction from page 39

[Alberto2005]

Obertan did decent in the 5 minute spell he had.

 

 

[johnnypd]

These highlights do show that villa had the majority of the better chances.

 

Absolutely, Pards summed it up very well in his post match on Sky. Said we had most of the play but probably Villa were the team most likely to feel they could've got all 3 points.

 

Cisse and Ba really need some coaching about how to play together. They both just mince around in front of the back four. Ba ought to drop deeper and cisse needs to run the channels more. I thought Ba was the better of the two today (not a compliment).

 

I really think its only the inability of the CF's to work together is the biggest hindrance of the 4-4-2. We are left with no purpose to our attacks.

 

Also the whole 4-4-2 4-3-3 debate thing is becoming a bit of a joke. Today it was the players who let us down they need to take some responsibility. Its interesting how critical a lot of posters are in the Player threads yet don't criticise them anywhere near as much as the system they are playing in.

 

1 or 2 poor performances you can often attribute to a specific system. 5 or 6 is inexcusable.

 

Feel Anita, Santon, Bigi, HBA (though often lacking purpose IMO) and Colo were the best of our lot today.

 

Ba and Cisse's inability to play together up front probably is the biggest problem with a 4-4-2, but it is by no means the only problem. Yorkie's summed up most of them in the relevant thread so no point relisting them.

 

Also, coaching can only go so far - you can't turn them into different players when they both line up through the middle. years of previous coaching, instinct, and to be frank - goal scoring greed - will usually trump that. If you force them to take up a different position, of course, they kind of have to live with it.

 

As for the bolded part - i'd say the opposite is true. the longer it goes on the clearer a sign that it is the system that is culpable. not saying it's the only issue at present - i also think fitness, the extra demands and decreased preparation time that comes with European qualification, and questionable attitude from one of two like Cabaye play a role, but the formation is compounding and amplifying these issues.

 

Case in point - is Cabaye isn't moving around the pitch freely than you should seek to remedy that by surrounding him with more mobile players. this happened to a degree 2nd half and we and him improved a tad. same rationale should be applied to other issues we have = ie Ba and Cisse not gelling, Ben Arfa stranded too deep etc.

 

If the biggest problem with the system can be rectified then I think that 1 point today becomes 3. Then the size of other perceived inefficiencies diminishes.

 

Sorry to pick on that point in your second paragraph but to attribute a degree of fault to their previous coaching (I know other factors are listed) whilst saying coaching can only go so far seems a little backward. Also its not rocket science. Ba was dropping deep when lining up with ameobi and best last season. Asking Cisse to run channels occasionally will also stretch defences and allow ben arfa some support in advanced wide areas whilst giving him space to run into. I would say the situation is not too dissimilar to when SBR came in and told Shearer that he had his back to goal too much ('im not seeing your number 9').  Im not trying to revolutionise either of their play but it would enable us to stretch teams more and arguably therefore create more chances for the two of them.

 

Agree with you on the movement off the ball though. Its worrying just how static we are.

 

Good post  always interesting to hear how other people see our problems, though its making me think way too much for this late on a sunday.

 

 

 

It might be the biggest problem but it doesn't outweigh the other issues. so even if you rectify that you've only gone, say, a third of the way to addressing the present issues.

 

As for coaching - i'm talking about the years and years of developmental coaching they've received from the ages of 7 up and at previosu clubs which all help turn you into the player you are today. a couple of hours a week over a month or two is going to make very little dent on that. you can tweak and tailor but you can't completely overhaul a player's innate qualities and instincts like that in a short space of time.

[Chicken Dancer]

Set piece work needed ASAP. Cabaye can't take corners like. Also the fact we've never came from behind to win under Pardew (in the league) is worrying.

 

Cabaye definitely can. Everyone (Ben Arfa included) seems shin at it. You're right about not winning like. I think we used it all up on the Arsenal 4-4.

 

I'm sorry like. I love Cabaye, plus he is glorious to look at, but can he fuck take corners. The only player in our squad who can is Raylor. It's worrying to be honest, at the point now where when we get a corner I think ffs.

[Dave]

The amount of corners that get cleared by the first man is getting ridiculous. 80% don't even get past the near post.

 

Fucking infuriating to watch it happen time after time after time.

 

What bongles my head is that surely it makes sense - if you're constantly struggling to beat the first man - to put someone there in a NUFC shirt? To try and flick it on, have a shot directly on goal, even just to try and put the defender off. There must be some outstanding reason why we don't do this.

[Mick]

I'm surprised that we haven't tried to play more short corners to Ben Arfa running into the box, we'd get more from them than hitting the first defender.

[johnnypd]

I'm surprised that we haven't tried to play more short corners to Ben Arfa running into the box, we'd get more from them than hitting the first defender.

 

Agree. The only possible reason I can think of is that Pardew is worried about Ben Arfa losing the ball with our centre-halves marooned in the opposition box.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Set piece work needed ASAP. Cabaye can't take corners like. Also the fact we've never came from behind to win under Pardew (in the league) is worrying.

 

Cabaye definitely can. Everyone (Ben Arfa included) seems shin at it. You're right about not winning like. I think we used it all up on the Arsenal 4-4.

 

I'm sorry like. I love Cabaye, plus he is glorious to look at, but can he f*** take corners. The only player in our squad who can is Raylor. It's worrying to be honest, at the point now where when we get a corner I think ffs.

 

He can take corners. He's just been garbage recently. Im hoping he sorts it out soon. We desperately need him to play closer to Ba, Cisse and Ben Arfa. Don't forget, Cabaye is a seriously brilliant player. It's just a phase love.

[SiLvOR]

I'm surprised that we haven't tried to play more short corners to Ben Arfa running into the box, we'd get more from them than hitting the first defender.

 

Agree. The only possible reason I can think of is that Pardew is worried about Ben Arfa losing the ball with our centre-halves marooned in the opposition box.

 

Which is a valid concern tbh. Plus if we keep doing it, he'd just get ganged up on and crowded out. Would rather simply try and get better deliveries into the box, also agree with what you say Dave, it's what Arsenal are doing at the moment and it looks like a pretty decent tactic imo

[Dave]

I'm surprised that we haven't tried to play more short corners to Ben Arfa running into the box, we'd get more from them than hitting the first defender.

 

Was it when Barton left, he was allegedly unhappy that he wasn't going to be the one taking the set pieces any more? Perhaps we're now in the same situation with Cabaye, he wants to be doing it every time.

 

I find it astonishing that normally we don't mix it up at all. When Ben Arfa was on them against Spurs you at least thought something unusual might happen. As luck would have it, that won us the match.

[midds]

The amount of corners that get cleared by the first man is getting ridiculous. 80% don't even get past the near post.

 

Fucking infuriating to watch it happen time after time after time.

 

What bongles my head is that surely it makes sense - if you're constantly struggling to beat the first man - to put someone there in a NUFC shirt? To try and flick it on, have a shot directly on goal, even just to try and put the defender off. There must be some outstanding reason why we don't do this.

 

About 77 minutes in today we got a corner. One of them had to go off for an injury. They pulled every single player back into their box. When it came in we only had 4 bodies compared to their 10. We deliberately left 4 men out of the box despite having no-one to mark. 2 of them were on the halfway line.

 

Clueless.

[johnnypd]

I'm surprised that we haven't tried to play more short corners to Ben Arfa running into the box, we'd get more from them than hitting the first defender.

 

Agree. The only possible reason I can think of is that Pardew is worried about Ben Arfa losing the ball with our centre-halves marooned in the opposition box.

 

Which is a valid concern tbh. Plus if we keep doing it, he'd just get ganged up on and crowded out. Would rather simply try and get better deliveries into the box, also agree with what you say Dave, it's what Arsenal are doing at the moment and it looks like a pretty decent tactic imo

 

it is a valid concern as the defenders would be behind the play in that event. but as it's worked already it should be part of our locker rather than something we do every time. if defences get scared and put an extra man over than that's one less player they'll have in the box defending which can only be to our benefit.

[SiLvOR]

I'm surprised that we haven't tried to play more short corners to Ben Arfa running into the box, we'd get more from them than hitting the first defender.

 

Agree. The only possible reason I can think of is that Pardew is worried about Ben Arfa losing the ball with our centre-halves marooned in the opposition box.

 

Which is a valid concern tbh. Plus if we keep doing it, he'd just get ganged up on and crowded out. Would rather simply try and get better deliveries into the box, also agree with what you say Dave, it's what Arsenal are doing at the moment and it looks like a pretty decent tactic imo

 

it is a valid concern as the defenders would be behind the play in that event. but as it's worked already it should be part of our locker rather than something we do every time. if defences get scared and put an extra man over than that's one less player they'll have in the box defending which can only be to our benefit.

 

Yeah agree with you, I just worded it like a complete prat think bedtime is approaching! Good point about dragging another defender over aswell, that would help for sure

[Mick]

I'm surprised that we haven't tried to play more short corners to Ben Arfa running into the box, we'd get more from them than hitting the first defender.

 

Agree. The only possible reason I can think of is that Pardew is worried about Ben Arfa losing the ball with our centre-halves marooned in the opposition box.

 

Which is a valid concern tbh. Plus if we keep doing it, he'd just get ganged up on and crowded out. Would rather simply try and get better deliveries into the box, also agree with what you say Dave, it's what Arsenal are doing at the moment and it looks like a pretty decent tactic imo

 

I'm not sure it is a valid concern, when a team comes away from a corner on the attack it's usually with pace so you don't need centre-halves to defend, you need players with pace to combat what's coming at you.

[Mick]

I'm surprised that we haven't tried to play more short corners to Ben Arfa running into the box, we'd get more from them than hitting the first defender.

 

Was it when Barton left, he was allegedly unhappy that he wasn't going to be the one taking the set pieces any more? Perhaps we're now in the same situation with Cabaye, he wants to be doing it every time.

 

I find it astonishing that normally we don't mix it up at all. When Ben Arfa was on them against Spurs you at least thought something unusual might happen. As luck would have it, that won us the match.

 

Barton allegedly went ape shit during pre-season because he was no longer going to take set pieces.

[alexf]

I'm not too concerned after that. I know people expect us to beat villa at home but they were good today and caught us on an off day. Very soft defending for their goal and sloppy defending all round at times. Ba and Cisse really not at it yet and in many games last season they were difference between a win and a draw/loss.

 

Need to find a system to suit all parties. I genuinely believe that the 4-3-1-2 that we ended with was the plan had we have got in a attacking right-back in the summer (debuchy) and when Anita went there we immediately changed to that formation. Think pards may have accidentally discovered that having anita there when tiote is back could be a real bonus.

 

We have some top class individuals when they are on their game. Ben Arfa, Tiote, Cabaye, Ba, Cisse,Colo. and also some really decent younger players in Santon, Anita etc

I think once we have a few more of our big names back on form then we will be in for a good season.

 

Far more teams are going to be harder to beat this season and we are going to lose games we might have won last year but we need to stay positive. We have a great bunch of lads.

[Dan Gleebals]

I think we would have said 4 points from the first three games = Spurs 1, Chelsea 0 and Villa 3, should have been 6 mind.

 

Something is not quite right yet and needs to be worked out pretty quickly.  No excuse for the fitness of some of our players although I suspect Ba and Cisse will benefit from an extra two weeks.

 

The break has come at a good time IMO, as long as we use it to get fit and sort our formation out.  Move on and forget this, overall not a bad start to the season.  Time to kick on now.

[Flip]

We really need 7 points from our next 4 matches in the league if we are going to prove we can be as strong as last season.

 

I think Tiote will mean a lot to this team when we play teams. We have lacked steel in the middle of the park and been outplayed there in two games. He is that important to us, especially when we go to Everton and Man Utd away.

[Guest neesy111]

We really need 7 points from our next 4 matches in the league if we are going to prove we can be as strong as last season.

 

I think Tiote will mean a lot to this team when we play teams. We have lacked steel in the middle of the park and been outplayed there in two games. He is that important to us, especially when we go to Everton and Man Utd away.

 

Agreed, away from home he is totally vital.

[MW]

Man utd is home

[Guest neesy111]

Man utd is home

 

Good spot MW.

[Guest Tyson]

Re- our first half in particular.

 

1-Point donation to Villa's survival cause.

 

 

[Guest neesy111]

I thought Villa did OK, but they weren't anything special mind.  Still putting most of this result on our shoulders, we really need to get out of the traps better.  Each of the 1st half's in the league this season have been crap.

[themanupstairs]

I thought Villa did OK, but they weren't anything special mind.  Still putting most of this result on our shoulders, we really need to get out of the traps better.  Each of the 1st half's in the league this season have been crap.

 

I agree about the 2nd point, but don't agree about Villa. They were in our faces for the entire 97 minutes, and we had no idea how to combat them. Last season we got in teams' faces, and pressed the ball a lot better, something which we haven't done so far in the 3 games gone.

[Wallace]

I don't understand how players having their heads turned by agents causes them to underperform.  Surely they would want to continue to impress to secure a move - not doing so, shows a poor mentality to me.  And surely personal pride would ensure a player would always want to perform the best they can.  But maybe I am being naive here.

 

If match fitness is an issue, then hopefully Cabaye will improve with the internationals and find some form.  Likewise with Ba and Cisse.

 

[Beren]

Re- our first half in particular.

 

1-Point donation to Villa's survival cause.

 

 

Mm. Very much so. We have a bad habit of being charitable to relegation fodder. Still remember the season Derby got 30% of their total points for the season off us ...