Pardew Out?

[colinmk]

Football isn't exactly overflowing with loyalty and honour these days anyway, doubt very much they all worship him just because we finished well last season. Personally if I hear someone saying one thing all the time and doing another then I lose respect for them very quickly.

[Taylor Swift]

I can't believe that I'm going to defend him but you know what, in Moyes first season with Everton they finished 7th, scoring 48 goals. In his second season, they barely survived, finishing 17th and scoring only 45 goals. In his next season, they finished 4th but again only scoring 45 goals and somehow managing a goal difference of -1 (!!!). In his first 4 seasons, they didn't crack 50 goals and were the definition of the solid and hard to beat team, eking out wins through sheer hard work and a propensity to create a goal out of nothing. Since then, they've never been below 50 goals, cracked 60 once and are well on course to crack it again this year. What's the point of all this? Things change with time. Moyes' team played boring football for many years, eking out wins and finishing in the top 10 each year. They progressed gradually, their style of football changed and now theyre guaranteed top 7 contenders.

 

Is Pardew Moyes? Possibly. Possibly not. He might be a Bruce, someone who can get a good season or two out of a team but can't deliver consistently. But he can also be Moyes. Our style isn't a pleasure to watch at the moment but the season is very long and many things can change.

 

Pardew isn't the manager that we want him to be but he is the one that we have. His success last year merits at least a full year of support, relegation notwithstanding. It would be folly and hasty to change managers again after what was a brilliant year last year.

[KaKa]

Imagine yourself as one of the players. You have a manager you like and the team did well last season. Cool.

 

This season however, things haven't been going well for the team, and everyone is playing poorly, literally everyone. Every single person.

 

I imagine the whole team must be frustrated with the whole situation. A dressing room full of frustrated irritable players. Not good.

 

Okay, so they all look to the manager, to do something different, and I would guess some of them even suggest changing things. I mean, this is how I would be thinking anyway!

 

However, the manager sticks with the same formula, and 'encourages' them to run harder and jump higher.

 

Yeah, that would eventually p*ss me off. A lot.

[Guest firetotheworks]

History can only take Pardew so far, especially when he doesn't use it to his advantage.

 

There is nothing about us finishing 5th last season that is being used this season.

[Hughesy]

I can't believe that I'm going to defend him but you know what, in Moyes first season with Everton they finished 7th, scoring 48 goals. In his second season, they barely survived, finishing 17th and scoring only 45 goals. In his next season, they finished 4th but again only scoring 45 goals and somehow managing a goal difference of -1 (!!!). In his first 4 seasons, they didn't crack 50 goals and were the definition of the solid and hard to beat team, eking out wins through sheer hard work and a propensity to create a goal out of nothing. Since then, they've never been below 50 goals, cracked 60 once and are well on course to crack it again this year. What's the point of all this? Things change with time. Moyes' team played boring football for many years, eking out wins and finishing in the top 10 each year. They progressed gradually, their style of football changed and now theyre guaranteed top 7 contenders.

 

Is Pardew Moyes? Possibly. Possibly not. He might be a Bruce, someone who can get a good season or two out of a team but can't deliver consistently. But he can also be Moyes. Our style isn't a pleasure to watch at the moment but the season is very long and many things can change.

 

Pardew isn't the manager that we want him to be but he is the one that we have. His success last year merits at least a full year of support, relegation notwithstanding. It would be folly and hasty to change managers again after what was a brilliant year last year.

 

This pretty much sums up how I feel.  I am not impressed with us this season and am beginning to worry a bit more about the direction we are heading.  But, the fact remains that Pardew did very well last season and deserves more than a third of a season to show that he can turn it round this season.

 

We do need stability and, whilst I appreciate the arguments that stability is only good if you have the right man, I think Pardew has earnt the right to more time.

 

[SimplyAnth]

I can't believe that I'm going to defend him but you know what, in Moyes first season with Everton they finished 7th, scoring 48 goals. In his second season, they barely survived, finishing 17th and scoring only 45 goals. In his next season, they finished 4th but again only scoring 45 goals and somehow managing a goal difference of -1 (!!!). In his first 4 seasons, they didn't crack 50 goals and were the definition of the solid and hard to beat team, eking out wins through sheer hard work and a propensity to create a goal out of nothing. Since then, they've never been below 50 goals, cracked 60 once and are well on course to crack it again this year. What's the point of all this? Things change with time. Moyes' team played boring football for many years, eking out wins and finishing in the top 10 each year. They progressed gradually, their style of football changed and now theyre guaranteed top 7 contenders.

 

Is Pardew Moyes? Possibly. Possibly not. He might be a Bruce, someone who can get a good season or two out of a team but can't deliver consistently. But he can also be Moyes. Our style isn't a pleasure to watch at the moment but the season is very long and many things can change.

 

Pardew isn't the manager that we want him to be but he is the one that we have. His success last year merits at least a full year of support, relegation notwithstanding. It would be folly and hasty to change managers again after what was a brilliant year last year.

 

This pretty much sums up how I feel.

 

[Taylor Swift]

The blame also can't solely lie with Pardew. When you have Williamson and Simpson starting every game, it's a massive handicap. The fact that we finished fifth last year should be a massive point in Pardews favour. It's not a realistic position when you're starting those two and when your impact subs are kids that should be loaned out to Championship teams. Our poor transfer window also undoubtedly affected attitudes in the team. Can Cabaye's slow start be attributed to our failure to sign Debuchy? Possibly. Does this excuse Pardews tactical failures ? No. But it is definitely a factor and its why Pardew deserves at least this full season. I'll be honest, even if we finish 12th, I'd still give him all of next season. He's a decent manager who's not been supported in the way he deserves and we're in a perfect storm of problems right now.

[Taylor Swift]

And for everyone saying that they complained about our performances last year when we were eking out wins, where was the bitching when we finished fifth? The performances, whether they were fun to watch or not, got us fifth and there wasn't a soul on here who wasn't jerking off about finishing fifth. Lets start winning again and see where it takes us.

[colinmk]

I can't believe that I'm going to defend him but you know what, in Moyes first season with Everton they finished 7th, scoring 48 goals. In his second season, they barely survived, finishing 17th and scoring only 45 goals. In his next season, they finished 4th but again only scoring 45 goals and somehow managing a goal difference of -1 (!!!). In his first 4 seasons, they didn't crack 50 goals and were the definition of the solid and hard to beat team, eking out wins through sheer hard work and a propensity to create a goal out of nothing. Since then, they've never been below 50 goals, cracked 60 once and are well on course to crack it again this year. What's the point of all this? Things change with time. Moyes' team played boring football for many years, eking out wins and finishing in the top 10 each year. They progressed gradually, their style of football changed and now theyre guaranteed top 7 contenders.

 

Is Pardew Moyes? Possibly. Possibly not. He might be a Bruce, someone who can get a good season or two out of a team but can't deliver consistently. But he can also be Moyes. Our style isn't a pleasure to watch at the moment but the season is very long and many things can change.

 

Pardew isn't the manager that we want him to be but he is the one that we have. His success last year merits at least a full year of support, relegation notwithstanding. It would be folly and hasty to change managers again after what was a brilliant year last year.

 

This pretty much sums up how I feel.

 

I appreciate the point yous are making and it could well be true but I doubt that Moyes had the likes of Ben Arfa, Ba, Cisse, Cabaye etc etc at the time. I honestly can't remember what his team was like back then tbh so I could be wrong. I just get the feeling that Pardew knows a system that he likes to play and is unwilling to deviate from that, as far as I can see Moyes gets the best out of what he has.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I've said before that the 8 year contract may be a blessing in disguise, in that it makes it harder for us to go our usual route and sack the manager.

 

We definitely do need to get out of this mind-set of turning on managers when things look bad, but it really is so difficult when you feel that the manager has all of the tools he needs to make the team tick and is ignoring them in favour of relentlessly mind-numbing, boring and above all, ineffective football.

 

Iirc, at that time Moyes didn't have the talents that we have (Rooney aside)

[dcmk]

He's a good manager, there is no doubt about it that Europa League, injuries and the constant interruption of international breaks has had a negative impact on how we prepare and how we perform come matchday.

 

The whole club has been very naive this summer, some rather poor performances this year doesn't justify getting on his back imo

[Dr Venkman]

I've said before that the 8 year contract may be a blessing in disguise, in that it makes it harder for us to go our usual route and sack the manager.

 

We definitely do need to get out of this mind-set of turning on managers when things look bad, but it really is so difficult when you feel that the manager has all of the tools he needs to make the team tick and is ignoring them in favour of relentlessly mind-numbing, boring and above all, ineffective football.

 

Iirc, at that time Moyes didn't have the talents that we have (Rooney aside)

 

I agree with this in principal, but I think he needs to be given the right type of players to succeed, and I don't think it's going to happen.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I can't believe that I'm going to defend him but you know what, in Moyes first season with Everton they finished 7th, scoring 48 goals. In his second season, they barely survived, finishing 17th and scoring only 45 goals. In his next season, they finished 4th but again only scoring 45 goals and somehow managing a goal difference of -1 (!!!). In his first 4 seasons, they didn't crack 50 goals and were the definition of the solid and hard to beat team, eking out wins through sheer hard work and a propensity to create a goal out of nothing. Since then, they've never been below 50 goals, cracked 60 once and are well on course to crack it again this year. What's the point of all this? Things change with time. Moyes' team played boring football for many years, eking out wins and finishing in the top 10 each year. They progressed gradually, their style of football changed and now theyre guaranteed top 7 contenders.

 

Is Pardew Moyes? Possibly. Possibly not. He might be a Bruce, someone who can get a good season or two out of a team but can't deliver consistently. But he can also be Moyes. Our style isn't a pleasure to watch at the moment but the season is very long and many things can change.

 

Pardew isn't the manager that we want him to be but he is the one that we have. His success last year merits at least a full year of support, relegation notwithstanding. It would be folly and hasty to change managers again after what was a brilliant year last year.

 

This pretty much sums up how I feel.

 

 

Me too, superb post.

 

True that Moyes didn't have Ben Arfa and Ba et al... but he also didn't have Williamson or Simpson et al.

[KaKa]

Moyes never had anything resembling the kind of players currently at the club though!

 

He did a hell of a job getting the likes of Cahill, Lescott and Jagielka, and effectively coaching them up to be much better players, and essentially making them premier league players.

 

This season is arguably the first they have a team of players of real quality, and he is excelling. Give him our team, and you think he struggles like Pardew is? Don't see it myself.

 

Cisee and Ba / Jelavic and Mirallas - Pretty comparable, but we probably have a better two in all honesty.

 

Fellaini / Cabaye - Both great players. One bieng used to his strength, the other not so.

 

Pienaar / Ben Arfa - Ben Arfa is the better player, but I swear Pienaar looks more effective for his team than Ben Arfa does for us most of the time, because he isn't getting the ball in dangerous areas often enough.

 

Anita and Tiote / Osman and Neville - Ha! Come on ...

 

Hibbert / Simpson - Tie.

 

Any of their central defenders / Coloccini - Colo

 

Any of our full backs / Baines - Baines

 

Jagielka and Distin / Taylor and Williamson - I'll take their two, obviously.

 

So, overall is their team really that much better than the table currently shows? Defensively they are a bit better, but we should be a bit better going forward.

 

Our manager is woefully underachieving I reckon.

[Wullie]

One major flaw in the Moyes-Pardew comparison: Moyes has always bought his own players. If he wanted to play a solid, quite negative game, that was his prerogative and could buy players to fit. Pardew doesn't have that luxury so we are buying players who like to pass for a manager who doesn't.

 

Something has to give, either the manager or the transfer policy and personally I think Pardew is a worse manager than Ba, Cisse, Ben Arfa and Cabaye are players.

[Tooj]

I can't believe that I'm going to defend him but you know what, in Moyes first season with Everton they finished 7th, scoring 48 goals. In his second season, they barely survived, finishing 17th and scoring only 45 goals. In his next season, they finished 4th but again only scoring 45 goals and somehow managing a goal difference of -1 (!!!). In his first 4 seasons, they didn't crack 50 goals and were the definition of the solid and hard to beat team, eking out wins through sheer hard work and a propensity to create a goal out of nothing. Since then, they've never been below 50 goals, cracked 60 once and are well on course to crack it again this year. What's the point of all this? Things change with time. Moyes' team played boring football for many years, eking out wins and finishing in the top 10 each year. They progressed gradually, their style of football changed and now theyre guaranteed top 7 contenders.

 

Is Pardew Moyes? Possibly. Possibly not. He might be a Bruce, someone who can get a good season or two out of a team but can't deliver consistently. But he can also be Moyes. Our style isn't a pleasure to watch at the moment but the season is very long and many things can change.

 

Pardew isn't the manager that we want him to be but he is the one that we have. His success last year merits at least a full year of support, relegation notwithstanding. It would be folly and hasty to change managers again after what was a brilliant year last year.

 

As I've mentioned on here before Moyes didn't have the same quality to work with as Pardew did back then.

[Kanj]

I can't believe that I'm going to defend him but you know what, in Moyes first season with Everton they finished 7th, scoring 48 goals. In his second season, they barely survived, finishing 17th and scoring only 45 goals. In his next season, they finished 4th but again only scoring 45 goals and somehow managing a goal difference of -1 (!!!). In his first 4 seasons, they didn't crack 50 goals and were the definition of the solid and hard to beat team, eking out wins through sheer hard work and a propensity to create a goal out of nothing. Since then, they've never been below 50 goals, cracked 60 once and are well on course to crack it again this year. What's the point of all this? Things change with time. Moyes' team played boring football for many years, eking out wins and finishing in the top 10 each year. They progressed gradually, their style of football changed and now theyre guaranteed top 7 contenders.

 

Is Pardew Moyes? Possibly. Possibly not. He might be a Bruce, someone who can get a good season or two out of a team but can't deliver consistently. But he can also be Moyes. Our style isn't a pleasure to watch at the moment but the season is very long and many things can change.

 

Pardew isn't the manager that we want him to be but he is the one that we have. His success last year merits at least a full year of support, relegation notwithstanding. It would be folly and hasty to change managers again after what was a brilliant year last year.

 

This pretty much sums up how I feel.

 

 

Me too, superb post.

 

True that Moyes didn't have Ben Arfa and Ba et al... but he also didn't have Williamson or Simpson et al.

 

Cracking post that - really find myself agreeing with this.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

One major flaw in the Moyes-Pardew comparison: Moyes has always bought his own players. If he wanted to play a solid, quite negative game, that was his prerogative and could buy players to fit. Pardew doesn't have that luxury so we are buying players who like to pass for a manager who doesn't.

 

Something has to give, either the manager or the transfer policy and personally I think Pardew is a worse manager than Ba, Cisse, Ben Arfa and Cabaye are players.

 

This an interesting point like, I wonder about it a lot.

 

Maybe Pardew agreed to manage the club knowing that he would always be forced to use the wrong type of players for his preferred style? Or maybe it was never discussed? Or maybe Ashley actively lied to Pardew, and Pardew ignored the previous signings? Maybe Ashley gave Pardew a massive contract despite the fact that his style was the opposite to the one the club wanted to pursue?

 

I don't find any of those conclusions very plausible.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Again, I'd like to hear from Neil on this.

[Stuy_O]

It's a terrible combination of elements going on.

 

The fact we didn't strengthen in the summer gave the impression that the club thinks it could tick along in similar fashion to last season, and while they may have been irked to begin with, the mentality has rubbed off on the players, their, absolutely zip competition for places. Its not solely to blame of course, but a bigger squad is used for runs like this, as you can try something fresh and different and drop players out of form. Not really an option for us currently. Players playing poorly and shot on confidence are starting every game.

 

Pardew's tactics are questionable, but the players are making the basics look impossible. Stuff like movement, we're so static at the moment yet their is space to run into quite often, yet the players seem incapable of doing it. I cant for the life of me think Pardew is advising them this. They are professional footballers, and in my view you can only blame so much on tactics and formations if players are refusing to get the absolute fundamentals right.

[Jack Flash]

That Moyes comparison is boring now. It's the only example that gets trotted out that has any relevance but if it's such a winning strategy shouldn't there be loads of similar examples? (Ferguson and Wenger both won trophies before they joined their clubs).

 

Having the right manager for 20 years only works if he is actually the right manager and Pardew's history doesn't suggest stability.

[Taylor Swift]

We have quality in the first team, yes. But beyond our six or so good players, we have nothing right now. We're a championship team held up by the likes of Ben Arfa and Ba because the rest of our squad is woeful. You look at our competitors, teams like Everton, Spurs and Liverpool and they all have more depth than we do. It's all good having a good first eleven but we haven't been able to play that team once all year. Yes Pardew hasn't set up his tactics right in so many matches but like I said, we're in a perfect storm of problems right now: poor form, injuries, suspensions, morale not good. Lets stay together, survive this rough patch and see where we are at the end of the season. 13 matches does not outweigh 38.

[KaKa]

That Moyes comparison is boring now. It's the only example that gets trotted out that has any relevance but if it's such a winning strategy shouldn't there be loads of similar examples? (Ferguson and Wenger both won trophies before they joined their clubs).

 

Having the right manager for 20 years only works if he is actually the right manager and Pardew's history doesn't suggest stability.

 

Honestly, the suggestion that keeping any manager in place for long enough, eventually leads to success, kills me everytime.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Of course it leads to success. They wouldn't be there long enough to find out about being anything other than a success. That much is obvious.

[Parky]

We'll get beat at Stoke and if we lose to Wigan at home, things will be seriously unhinged with regard to Pardew being able to pull things round. The team looks lost at the moment. Lacking ideas, confidence and certain players look like they have lost faith in the project they clearly believed in last year. He didn't manage to turn it around at West Ham or S'hampton, nothing suggest he will here. There is a tiny chance he has learnt from those experiences and ironically I maintain he is a better coach now in some areas - preperation and man management...But tactically he is still the same: Direct and percentage.

 

For the sake of the club I hope he does and I also hope that MA doesn't dither in the Jan window (we need at least 2 first team players). These so called weaker sides are beginning to play the kind of football that is beginning to make others relegation candidates - even S'thampton now look much more cohesive and confident.