What is success for you - in the long term?

[leffe186]

New Owner, New Manager with experience

 

Really? OK, there you go, have the Venkys and Mark Hughes . Job done.

 

Honestly, I think long-term success for you should be where we are now - challenging for 4/5 and in the cups. You managed it in the league last year, despite a threadbare squad and an unconvincing manager. You have a large stadium, a big catchment, some cachet to the name and some overseas recognition due to your success in the first decade of the Prem. Without any change in the top four (and arguably us, Liverpool and Everton) that would probably count as success.

 

Obviously, the goal should be to win the Prem and all the cups, but I don't think that precludes a challenge for 4/5 from being a success. If it wasn't for Chelsea scraping the CL last year I'd have considered it a success, and there were a couple of weeks when it just looked like we might do the unthinkable and actually mount a proper challenge for the league. Our light at the end of the tunnel is the potential new stadium, but I must confess that if it wasn't in the offing I'd be resigned to hoping for the occasional CL place as the summit of my ambitions.

 

One aside about the OP. I don't think that varying opinions of what success means are the root of most differences of opinions. There is simply a dearth of knowledge about what's going on, and people fill that gap with their own inclinations.

[Disco]

The concept of being a part of 20 team league and having no ambition to win it should be fucking alien.

 

Cannot believe how readily accepted it is, although I do understand it. Horrendous. Thought there'd be more dafties like me kicking around.

 

Do you not accept it though? FWIW I agree it's sad, but the problem is with the league not us.

 

Not long-term I don't, which is what the question is. Might as well not bother.

 

Surely the whole point of football is to try and win stuff? Especially the domestic league.

 

Course it's the point, but the current situation in the league makes it virtually

impossible. Whether or not people will start to think of football as pointless remains to be seen. For me, it just about offers enough on a weekly basis to help me forgot how futile the bigger picture is.

 

Obviously it needs to be done in steps, but it can be done. In our current model we'd need to get into the CL first to garner the revenue/status necessary to get the class players in/keep our current ones, of course. It's naturally a lot easier if you've got someone chucking money at it.

 

Spurs operate a similar way and got relatively close to challenging at the top, mind. They're still up there amongst it now despite a rocky period, although of course they're not in the title race right at this moment.

 

I dunno, taking a long-term view I just don't see why a club of this size shouldn't be trying to compete at the top-level and harbouring the aim of winning the PL.

 

Spurs will have a bigger stadium and revenue will go through the roof in a few years too when they've their new ground.

 

Aye, was telling me Dad this earlier. If they'd had a stadium the size of ours in place then who knows what they could have done, it's hamstrung them enormously being stuck at WHL. Obviously they have the added benefit of being in London and stuff like, so it may balance out currently.

 

It came up because I asked him the question posed by the OP here. I was that intrigued by the responses I've seen. Unsurprisingly he said the same as me.

 

 

Saying that Arsenal have gone backwards since moving to the Emirates but the PL has changed a lot for the worse since then.

---

In answer to OP, I and the rest of the family would die happy people if we won the/a significant cup.

[merlin]

Getting rid of Ashley, Llambias and Pardew in favour of owners with REAL money and the will to invest it properly and who will then appoint a decent PROVEN manager and give him the tools to do the job.

 

Won't happen any time soon and there are more grim years like this ahead - success for the current clowns is keeping the club above the bottom 3 and being able to sign players on cheap fees/wages before top clubs spot them ; not only is this difficult to do, but they need to know football to achieve it and they don't.

[merlin]

The concept of being a part of 20 team league and having no ambition to win it should be f***ing alien.

 

Cannot believe how readily accepted it is, although I do understand it. Horrendous. Thought there'd be more dafties like me kicking around.

 

Do you not accept it though? FWIW I agree it's sad, but the problem is with the league not us.

 

Not long-term I don't, which is what the question is. Might as well not bother.

 

Surely the whole point of football is to try and win stuff? Especially the domestic league.

 

Course it's the point, but the current situation in the league makes it virtually

impossible. Whether or not people will start to think of football as pointless remains to be seen. For me, it just about offers enough on a weekly basis to help me forgot how futile the bigger picture is.

 

Obviously it needs to be done in steps, but it can be done. In our current model we'd need to get into the CL first to garner the revenue/status necessary to get the class players in/keep our current ones, of course. It's naturally a lot easier if you've got someone chucking money at it.

 

Spurs operate a similar way and got relatively close to challenging at the top, mind. They're still up there amongst it now despite a rocky period, although of course they're not in the title race right at this moment.

 

I dunno, taking a long-term view I just don't see why a club of this size shouldn't be trying to compete at the top-level and harbouring the aim of winning the PL.

 

Spurs will have a bigger stadium and revenue will go through the roof in a few years too when they've their new ground.

 

There were some on this site earlier in the week arguing that a big crowd/stadium isn't important anymore..!!

[Village Idiot]

STs and matchday revenue for us is €150m - a bit under 30% of our total revenue -, and that's with low prices compared to other big European clubs. Don't underestimate the money that a stadium still provides.

[Mike]

VI, if you could keep only one thing about Barca, either the winning or the constant influx of club developed promising youngsters, which would you keep?

 

You could be like Man City, and just buy players Yankee style and always win, or you would develop world class players that would inevitably leave for better teams.

[Yorkie]

We'll win something in my lifetime. I honestly have no idea how I will react to it; it'll be such an alien thing.

 

I don't want this to sound like I don't want us to win something (because obviously I do; it's up there on the bucket list as it is for everyone else), but I have a bizarre trepidation towards the event; purely down to the fact it might not be the greatest day of my life, or whatever. For example, I can't bare the thought of seeing us win the cup and not actually being there, at Wembley. Or not being at SJP when the final whistle goes when we've won the league. I'd probably be as jealous as I was elated.

 

I think it's because I've witnessed, first-hand, the club atop a podium with a trophy in our hands - and it not come close to anything like the best feeling ever. It wasn't even the best feeling that season. Obviously, that's because it was having won a league we should never have competed in (you know what I mean); but I've always had this peculiar sense of 'worry' since that day.

 

This post makes me sound like an ungrateful, pessimistic douche and that's probably a fair summary; given there are die-hard supporters here who've never even been to the city, never mind seen us lift a trophy on our pitch. There are also supporters who've been going to the game longer than I have, who have witnessed us amidst some terrible times, who arguably have more 'right' to be there than I do, on the day we've won something.

 

It's a terrible thing to categorise supporters of the same club and it's something I sincerely look down on ('superfans' are rubbish), but I'd be devastated not to witness a real 'success' with my own eyes; and - rightly or wrongly - "I should've been there, not Mr X, Y or Z" would cross my mind at some point.

 

I'm open to being chastised for this viewpoint, it is incredibly selfish.

[Yorkie]

In response to the opening question; at the start of this season, I would've said a title challenge would be a real, notable 'success'. That would have been above and beyond my expectations. Having a stab at the CL places should've been the bare minimum after the achievements of last season, and the building blocks that were in place.

[Mike]

We'll win something in my lifetime. I honestly have no idea how I will react to it; it'll be such an alien thing.

 

I don't want this to sound like I don't want us to win something (because obviously I do; it's up there on the bucket list as it is for everyone else), but I have a bizarre trepidation towards the event; purely down to the fact it might not be the greatest day of my life, or whatever. For example, I can't bare the thought of seeing us win the cup and not actually being there, at Wembley. Or not being at SJP when the final whistle goes when we've won the league. I'd probably be as jealous as I was elated.

 

I think it's because I've witnessed, first-hand, the club atop a podium with a trophy in our hands - and it not come close to anything like the best feeling ever. It wasn't even the best feeling that season. Obviously, that's because it was having won a league we should never have competed in (you know what I mean); but I've always had this peculiar sense of 'worry' since that day.

 

This post makes me sound like an ungrateful, pessimistic douche and that's probably a fair summary; given there are die-hard supporters here who've never even been to the city, never mind seen us lift a trophy on our pitch. There are also supporters who've been going to the game longer than I have, who have witnessed us amidst some terrible times, who arguably have more 'right' to be there than I do, on the day we've won something.

 

It's a terrible thing to categorise supporters of the same club and it's something I sincerely look down on ('superfans' are rubbish), but I'd be devastated not to witness a real 'success' with my own eyes; and - rightly or wrongly - "I should've been there, not Mr X, Y or Z" would cross my mind at some point.

 

I'm open to being chastised for this viewpoint, it is incredibly selfish.

 

I think I've mentioned before that after every Yankee win, I realize that the journey is better than the destination. Every time they win, I remember this.

 

I mean, obviously...seeing your team win is better than not seeing them win.

 

It's very difficult to understand what happiness should be in a sport with no post-season. I enjoyed the Championship season more than any of the other...six or seven I've been a fan for. Of course we were winning loads of games, though. So I guess winning is happiness. Who the hell knows.

[Guest]

Regularly compete for European places and try to win a cup.

[Village Idiot]

VI, if you could keep only one thing about Barca, either the winning or the constant influx of club developed promising youngsters, which would you keep?

 

You could be like Man City, and just buy players Yankee style and always win, or you would develop world class players that would inevitably leave for better teams.

 

Winning, but I'll be the first to admit it wouldn't feel as good. Then again, it's not like the we haven't bought our way to success in the past or present.

[Toonpack]

It's a sad indictment of the modern game that anything but finishing first (because that's now all but impossible) is considered "success".

[Village Idiot]

Dunno, if you managed to qualify for the CL, for example, I'd call that a success.

 

Villarreal were a successful club in the mid-late 2000s without ever winning a trophy.

[Toonpack]

Off topic I guess but: Additional thought, we should introduce playoffs, with the top eight seeded (or maybe even not), last four get Champs league, winner is Champion, CL rankings between losing finalist and semi finalists decided by league placing at end of the league season - obviously champion is 1st ranked for CL. UEFA cup spots to first round playoff losers based on league placing.

 

[Toonpack]

Dunno, if you managed to qualify for the CL, for example, I'd call that a success.

 

Villarreal were a successful club in the mid-late 2000s without ever winning a trophy.

 

So not "real" success then on two fronts, qualifying for another competition you have no chance of winning and winning nowt.

[ElDiablo]

Top half minimum every season.

Passing football.

Having a strong English presence in the squad.

Developing youngsters into first team members.

Being able to take pride in every aspect of the club.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The concept of being a part of 20 team league and having no ambition to win it should be f***ing alien.

 

Cannot believe how readily accepted it is, although I do understand it. Horrendous. Thought there'd be more dafties like me kicking around.

 

Do you not accept it though? FWIW I agree it's sad, but the problem is with the league not us.

 

Not long-term I don't, which is what the question is. Might as well not bother.

 

Surely the whole point of football is to try and win stuff? Especially the domestic league.

 

Course it's the point, but the current situation in the league makes it virtually

impossible. Whether or not people will start to think of football as pointless remains to be seen. For me, it just about offers enough on a weekly basis to help me forgot how futile the bigger picture is.

 

Obviously it needs to be done in steps, but it can be done. In our current model we'd need to get into the CL first to garner the revenue/status necessary to get the class players in/keep our current ones, of course. It's naturally a lot easier if you've got someone chucking money at it.

 

Spurs operate a similar way and got relatively close to challenging at the top, mind. They're still up there amongst it now despite a rocky period, although of course they're not in the title race right at this moment.

 

I dunno, taking a long-term view I just don't see why a club of this size shouldn't be trying to compete at the top-level and harbouring the aim of winning the PL.

 

Spurs will have a bigger stadium and revenue will go through the roof in a few years too when they've their new ground.

 

There were some on this site earlier in the week arguing that a big crowd/stadium isn't important anymore..!!

 

It's becoming less and less important, isn't it? Money from other sources far, far outstrips what is earned from fans coming through the gates.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Top half minimum every season.

Passing football.

Having a strong English presence in the squad.

Developing youngsters into first team members.

Being able to take pride in every aspect of the club.

 

Agree with those, not too bothered about the English aspect though.

[AlanSkÃrare]

Top half minimum every season.

Passing football.

Having a strong English presence in the squad.

Developing youngsters into first team members.

Being able to take pride in every aspect of the club.

 

Sir Bobby's time here pretty much apart from developing youngsters.

[Village Idiot]

Dunno, if you managed to qualify for the CL, for example, I'd call that a success.

 

Villarreal were a successful club in the mid-late 2000s without ever winning a trophy.

 

So not "real" success then on two fronts, qualifying for another competition you have no chance of winning and winning nowt.

 

Dunno, they played great football, with some world class players plying their trade there, like Riquelme or Rossi; challenged for La Liga and got far in the cups, even getting to the CL semis... I think any Villarreal fan will look back at that with pride.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Only one team can win the league, there has to be success beyond just winning things. Otherwise nearly every team fails nearly every season.

[Tooj]

In all honesty I'm just happy to see us go out there, give it our best shot and try and reach what potential this club actually has.

 

I feel since Ashley took over we've lost our identify as fans, there's too many different agendas, too many people are just too apathetic about anything these days to do anything.

 

I want that pride and identity back, Keegan made us feel proud, Sir Bobby Robson made us feel proud. Even Chris Hughton made us feel proud. I can't say I've ever had that feeling under Pardew, even last season when we were doing well, I still never felt we were playing to our potential.

[Village Idiot]

Only one team can win the league, there has to be success beyond just winning things. Otherwise nearly every team fails nearly every season.

 

Indeed, was Keegan's first stint a failure? Or Sir Bobby's? Pretty sure not.

[Toonpack]

Dunno, if you managed to qualify for the CL, for example, I'd call that a success.

 

Villarreal were a successful club in the mid-late 2000s without ever winning a trophy.

 

So not "real" success then on two fronts, qualifying for another competition you have no chance of winning and winning nowt.

 

Dunno, they played great football, with some world class players plying their trade there, like Riquelme or Rossi; challenged for La Liga and got far in the cups, even getting to the CL semis... I think any Villarreal fan will look back at that with pride.

 

I don't disagree, it's just a reflection of "today" that not winning/being the best is generally accepted as "success", that lowering of expectation has and does help cement the "really" succesfull above the rest. Fans, Sponsors, The media all now accept 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc is the new winning stuff. Sad IMO.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

There aren't many inspirational managers with a connection to Newcastle knocking around though, I think it's pretty harsh to compare everyone to Keegan and Bobby.