Alan Pardew

[Beren]

I don't think our full backs can't defend - Pardew just hasn't been able to construct a new competent defensive unit now that the decent one he inherited is no longer there, despite having more gifted personnel.

 

Think similar things are true of a lot of the above comments IMO.

[Unbelievable]

I don't think our full backs can't defend - Pardew just hasn't been able to construct a new competent defensive unit now that the decent one he inherited is no longer there, despite having more gifted personnel.

 

Think similar things are true of a lot of the above comments IMO.

 

The underlined bit is a fair point. I don't think Santon and Debuchy in particular are as good as they are made out to be though. Santon still has a lot to learn, mainly about the defensive side of the game, and Debuchy is having huge trouble adapting to a new league. I would say the two of them are distinctly midtable at best for now.

[Ronaldo]

Santon can be very decent at defending, but he's seriously prone to concentrational lapses.

[Interpolic]

He should do miles better with the players available to him, howay.  There are a few positions where we're not too strong but that's no excuse for the shite served up.

I'm of the opinion that the squad isn't as good as some like to believe. Theres the basis of a good squad but its sorely lacking in key area's. Our full backs all to one extent or another (excluding dummet from this due to lack of seeing him play yet) can't defend. And aren't all that great at attacking either. This leaves gaping holes side's can exploit to their hearts content (were I West Ham this coming saturday I'd be specifically targeting Debuchy and wait for him to do something stupid) Colo's a very good cb but not a complete one, he struggles badly against really pacey players and really physical frontmen and none of our other cbs really cover that weakness. Taylor's the closest to covering them but he lacks a functional brain while MYM could cope with pace I'd be very hesitant to put him and colo together against the strong strikers of the league.

 

Cabaye is a very good central midfielder and our key creative player, pity he wants to go. Tiote's forgotten how to play football and just picks up yellow cards for a living now. Sissoko hasn't demonstrated much creativity yet and seems mainly to keep things ticking over and win the ball, but thats what Tiote's supposed to do as well (in theory). Anita hasn't coped with the physical side of the prem at all.

 

None of our wingers (or players we assign to play on the wing because we have no one else) have much natural width or the real killer pace to get behind defences, not slow mind you just lacking the real cutting edge of pace. HBA can be unplayable on his day but he keeps getting injured and it takes time to get going at full ability once he's back, or he gets injured again. Marveaux is just kind of there, decent passer could be quite creative but hasn't been able to get a run together of consistent performances and picks up injuries as well.

 

And finally our strike force oh boy our strike force. Cisse, good enough in the box but last season missed several very scorable chances. Also can't stay onside or be useful in any way at all outside the box. Everything has to be completely laid on a plate for him which is not always possible which leaves us with a problem against the top sides. Shola is fucking Shola. Gouffrans been used on the wing (for lack of anyone else to put there) and is no good there. Not seen him as a striker enough to judge. Remy I'm ignoring as he hasn't played for us yet but one point, our one summer signing is a loan of a guy who turned us down for relegation certs 6 months ago and is probably only here because no one else would touch him with the court case hanging over him and he could potentially go to prison half way through the season!

 

Another excellent post. People appear blinded by their hatred for Pardew and they can't see the wood for the trees.

 

Tbh I see what you're getting at to a degree, some of our squad are overrated.  But this is a debate that will never go anywhere because we've never seen this squad play under another manager.  I'm firmly of the opinion that the players are playing miles below their ability because he's treating apples like oranges, he's trying to play cautious tedium-ball with players that are not well suited for it.  The squad is what it is, he's not going to get Allardyce results from players that aren't suited to Allardyce-type football, as Allardyce found out ironically enough when he tried to hoof the ball up to Martins and Owen when he was here.

 

But Unbelievable!, you're totally contradicting yourself here, "People appear blinded by their hatred for Pardew and they can't see the wood for the trees" when in your very last post you said that you'd like to see them under another manager and that Pardew's on a hiding to nothing with players that don't suit his style.  I'm not blinded by my hatred of Pardew at all personally, I recognise that the squad isn't perfect but we're not even getting mediocre performances out of them at the minute.

[Unbelievable]

Santon can be very decent at defending, but he's seriously prone to concentrational lapses.

 

Well yes, but that's a part of being a good defender too, isn't it? I know you and I have a similar opinion on Bramble when he was an NUFC player, in that he could look brilliant and commanding for stretches. But then the inevitable lapse of concentration would happen and all the good work would be undone. Lapses of concentration often cost goals, and goals costs points, or going through in cups. It's a pretty major flaw for a defender in all honesty.

[jdckelly]

I don't think our full backs can't defend - Pardew just hasn't been able to construct a new competent defensive unit now that the decent one he inherited is no longer there, despite having more gifted personnel.

 

Think similar things are true of a lot of the above comments IMO.

Santons the best defender of the 3 of them and he's had several brain dead moments which have cost us. Haidara's a kid and still learning and Debuchy the seasoned pro the french international rb has demonstrated no knowledge of defending at all. Not even a hint of it. In fact has demonstrated more of an ability to gift the opposition chances or penalties. He should not need a manager to hold his hand and tell him not to lunge or take risky chances near our box. Tiote shouldn't need a manager to tell him not to recklessly tackle the opposition, Cisse shouldn't need someone to teach him the basics of the offside rule. They should know this stuff already, many of them are internationals they're all highly paid professionals they should have the basic desire to learn to cut out these school boy errors without someone needing to hold their hand and tell them exactly what to do.

[Beren]

I don't think our full backs can't defend - Pardew just hasn't been able to construct a new competent defensive unit now that the decent one he inherited is no longer there, despite having more gifted personnel.

 

Think similar things are true of a lot of the above comments IMO.

 

The underlined bit is a fair point. I don't think Santon and Debuchy in particular are as good as they are made out to be though. Santon still has a lot to learn, mainly about the defensive side of the game, and Debuchy is having huge trouble adapting to a new league. I would say the two of them are distinctly midtable at best for now.

 

Perhaps. I would say that I think Newcastle fans will understandably have a tendency to see them as they are not as they could be, or what they were, for that matter.

 

My mate, a big Inter Milan fan, doesn't even recognise the Santon he sees in a Newcastle shirt these days. Says his main strength/attribute used to be his defensive qualities!

 

The lack of organisation/cohesiveness in the long-term will make every individual look that much poorer. IMO.

[Hanshithispantz]

He should be performing far better with the personnel he has, even discounting the results we need to see the team actually playing together as a unit which is possible regardless of the formation and selection, but seems to evade us almost every week.

 

I remember watching the Fulham (I think) and Swansea matches last season and actually thinking that he'd got us playing well as a unit, despite the results, and was happy with the games. The vast majority though - even in our 5th place season - we've looked flat as a fart win, lose, or draw, and it's everything to do with the management. Whether that be Pardew, the coaching staff, or both.

[Interpolic]

I don't think our full backs can't defend - Pardew just hasn't been able to construct a new competent defensive unit now that the decent one he inherited is no longer there, despite having more gifted personnel.

 

Think similar things are true of a lot of the above comments IMO.

 

The underlined bit is a fair point. I don't think Santon and Debuchy in particular are as good as they are made out to be though. Santon still has a lot to learn, mainly about the defensive side of the game, and Debuchy is having huge trouble adapting to a new league. I would say the two of them are distinctly midtable at best for now.

 

Perhaps. I would say that I think Newcastle fans will understandably have a tendency to see them as they are not as they could be, or what they were, for that matter.

 

My mate, a big Inter Milan fan, doesn't even recognise the Santon he sees in a Newcastle shirt these days. Says his main strength/attribute used to be his defensive qualities!

 

The lack of organisation/cohesiveness in the long-term will make every individual look that much poorer. IMO.

 

I agree, our defensive midfielders don't even cover for the full backs when they bomb forward well at all, which should be a pre-requisite for any remotely fluid formation.

 

The change in Tiote is a great case in point, I'm sure the player's to blame to a degree but going by Pardew's comments about him a while back it seems we've tried to make his game more expansive than that, with disastrous results.  That guy should be tackling (fairly) and playing it simply and that's it.

[Unbelievable]

He should do miles better with the players available to him, howay.  There are a few positions where we're not too strong but that's no excuse for the s**** served up.

I'm of the opinion that the squad isn't as good as some like to believe. Theres the basis of a good squad but its sorely lacking in key area's. Our full backs all to one extent or another (excluding dummet from this due to lack of seeing him play yet) can't defend. And aren't all that great at attacking either. This leaves gaping holes side's can exploit to their hearts content (were I West Ham this coming saturday I'd be specifically targeting Debuchy and wait for him to do something stupid) Colo's a very good cb but not a complete one, he struggles badly against really pacey players and really physical frontmen and none of our other cbs really cover that weakness. Taylor's the closest to covering them but he lacks a functional brain while MYM could cope with pace I'd be very hesitant to put him and colo together against the strong strikers of the league.

 

Cabaye is a very good central midfielder and our key creative player, pity he wants to go. Tiote's forgotten how to play football and just picks up yellow cards for a living now. Sissoko hasn't demonstrated much creativity yet and seems mainly to keep things ticking over and win the ball, but thats what Tiote's supposed to do as well (in theory). Anita hasn't coped with the physical side of the prem at all.

 

None of our wingers (or players we assign to play on the wing because we have no one else) have much natural width or the real killer pace to get behind defences, not slow mind you just lacking the real cutting edge of pace. HBA can be unplayable on his day but he keeps getting injured and it takes time to get going at full ability once he's back, or he gets injured again. Marveaux is just kind of there, decent passer could be quite creative but hasn't been able to get a run together of consistent performances and picks up injuries as well.

 

And finally our strike force oh boy our strike force. Cisse, good enough in the box but last season missed several very scorable chances. Also can't stay onside or be useful in any way at all outside the box. Everything has to be completely laid on a plate for him which is not always possible which leaves us with a problem against the top sides. Shola is f***ing Shola. Gouffrans been used on the wing (for lack of anyone else to put there) and is no good there. Not seen him as a striker enough to judge. Remy I'm ignoring as he hasn't played for us yet but one point, our one summer signing is a loan of a guy who turned us down for relegation certs 6 months ago and is probably only here because no one else would touch him with the court case hanging over him and he could potentially go to prison half way through the season!

 

Another excellent post. People appear blinded by their hatred for Pardew and they can't see the wood for the trees.

 

Tbh I see what you're getting at to a degree, some of our squad are overrated.  But this is a debate that will never go anywhere because we've never seen this squad play under another manager.  I'm firmly of the opinion that the players are playing miles below their ability because he's treating apples like oranges, he's trying to play cautious tedium-ball with players that are not well suited for it.  The squad is what it is, he's not going to get Allardyce results from players that aren't suited to Allardyce-type football, as Allardyce found out ironically enough when he tried to hoof the ball up to Martins and Owen when he was here.

 

But Unbelievable!, you're totally contradicting yourself here, "People appear blinded by their hatred for Pardew and they can't see the wood for the trees" when in your very last post you said that you'd like to see them under another manager and that Pardew's on a hiding to nothing with players that don't suit his style.  I'm not blinded by my hatred of Pardew at all personally, I recognise that the squad isn't perfect but we're not even getting mediocre performances out of them at the minute.

 

I am not contradicting myself at all. I do recognise Pardew is a problem, a pretty fucking big one at that. But he didn't appoint himself, or give himself a new contract. Obviously the club (owner) had enough faith in him to hand him a lucrative, new long term deal for the sake of stability, but not enough to give him a say in the type of player we buy, because our transfer policy does not have the aim to help our on the pitch objectives, it aims at achieving off the pitch commercial objectives. The whole setup is fundamentally flawed, and my concern is Pardew is the main figurehead for the blame, whereas it should be directed at the owner for installing such a incoherent setup in the first place.

[Beren]

I don't think our full backs can't defend - Pardew just hasn't been able to construct a new competent defensive unit now that the decent one he inherited is no longer there, despite having more gifted personnel.

 

Think similar things are true of a lot of the above comments IMO.

Santons the best defender of the 3 of them and he's had several brain dead moments which have cost us. Haidara's a kid and still learning and Debuchy the seasoned pro the french international rb has demonstrated no knowledge of defending at all. Not even a hint of it. In fact has demonstrated more of an ability to gift the opposition chances or penalties. He should not need a manager to hold his hand and tell him not to lunge or take risky chances near our box. Tiote shouldn't need a manager to tell him not to recklessly tackle the opposition, Cisse shouldn't need someone to teach him the basics of the offside rule. They should know this stuff already, many of them are internationals they're all highly paid professionals they should have the basic desire to learn to cut out these school boy errors without someone needing to hold their hand and tell them exactly what to do.

 

Again, I would say this is removing the context and isolating them from one another unrealistically. All those players are being stretched into doing unnatural things, venturing into areas they don't really belong, trying to do too much, or taking on rules unsuited to their skillsets... and it impacts on their ability to do the basics in their 'orthodox' roles.

 

Santon is the best example I can see of this from last season, but I think it's true of most of the team to varying extents. Santon was palpably frustrated by the static/easily-telegraphed "attacking strategy" ahead of him, so he went forward enthusiastically, but recklessly - leaving us exposed. We went chasing games and it just got worse and worse, and he got more and more despondent (or at least so it seemed).

 

I think it's one of those things where I don't think we'll ever really gauge how good the squad is/isn't.

[Interpolic]

He should do miles better with the players available to him, howay.  There are a few positions where we're not too strong but that's no excuse for the s**** served up.

I'm of the opinion that the squad isn't as good as some like to believe. Theres the basis of a good squad but its sorely lacking in key area's. Our full backs all to one extent or another (excluding dummet from this due to lack of seeing him play yet) can't defend. And aren't all that great at attacking either. This leaves gaping holes side's can exploit to their hearts content (were I West Ham this coming saturday I'd be specifically targeting Debuchy and wait for him to do something stupid) Colo's a very good cb but not a complete one, he struggles badly against really pacey players and really physical frontmen and none of our other cbs really cover that weakness. Taylor's the closest to covering them but he lacks a functional brain while MYM could cope with pace I'd be very hesitant to put him and colo together against the strong strikers of the league.

 

Cabaye is a very good central midfielder and our key creative player, pity he wants to go. Tiote's forgotten how to play football and just picks up yellow cards for a living now. Sissoko hasn't demonstrated much creativity yet and seems mainly to keep things ticking over and win the ball, but thats what Tiote's supposed to do as well (in theory). Anita hasn't coped with the physical side of the prem at all.

 

None of our wingers (or players we assign to play on the wing because we have no one else) have much natural width or the real killer pace to get behind defences, not slow mind you just lacking the real cutting edge of pace. HBA can be unplayable on his day but he keeps getting injured and it takes time to get going at full ability once he's back, or he gets injured again. Marveaux is just kind of there, decent passer could be quite creative but hasn't been able to get a run together of consistent performances and picks up injuries as well.

 

And finally our strike force oh boy our strike force. Cisse, good enough in the box but last season missed several very scorable chances. Also can't stay onside or be useful in any way at all outside the box. Everything has to be completely laid on a plate for him which is not always possible which leaves us with a problem against the top sides. Shola is f***ing Shola. Gouffrans been used on the wing (for lack of anyone else to put there) and is no good there. Not seen him as a striker enough to judge. Remy I'm ignoring as he hasn't played for us yet but one point, our one summer signing is a loan of a guy who turned us down for relegation certs 6 months ago and is probably only here because no one else would touch him with the court case hanging over him and he could potentially go to prison half way through the season!

 

Another excellent post. People appear blinded by their hatred for Pardew and they can't see the wood for the trees.

 

Tbh I see what you're getting at to a degree, some of our squad are overrated.  But this is a debate that will never go anywhere because we've never seen this squad play under another manager.  I'm firmly of the opinion that the players are playing miles below their ability because he's treating apples like oranges, he's trying to play cautious tedium-ball with players that are not well suited for it.  The squad is what it is, he's not going to get Allardyce results from players that aren't suited to Allardyce-type football, as Allardyce found out ironically enough when he tried to hoof the ball up to Martins and Owen when he was here.

 

But Unbelievable!, you're totally contradicting yourself here, "People appear blinded by their hatred for Pardew and they can't see the wood for the trees" when in your very last post you said that you'd like to see them under another manager and that Pardew's on a hiding to nothing with players that don't suit his style.  I'm not blinded by my hatred of Pardew at all personally, I recognise that the squad isn't perfect but we're not even getting mediocre performances out of them at the minute.

 

I am not contradicting myself at all. I do recognise Pardew is a problem, a pretty fucking big one at that. But he didn't appoint himself, or give himself a new contract. Obviously the club (owner) had enough faith in him to hand him a lucrative, new long term deal for the sake of stability, but not enough to give him a say in the type of player we buy, because our transfer policy does not have the aim to help our on the pitch objectives, it aims at achieving off the pitch commercial objectives. The whole setup is fundamentally flawed, and my concern is Pardew is the main figurehead for the blame, whereas it should be directed at the owner for installing such a incoherent setup in the first place.

 

Don't take this personally (you appear to be a bit radge recently, and if even I'm saying that you should probably calm doon ) but you are contradicting yourself.

 

You're expressing your agreement at a post pointing out the limitations of our players, he didn't mention Ashley or the way the club is run.  By saying "People appear blinded by their hatred for Pardew and they can't see the wood for the trees" to that post you're surely saying you simply agree that the players are overrated, since that was the post you're agreeing with, you know the one that didn't mention Ashley or the way the club is run at all.

[Unbelievable]

I don't think our full backs can't defend - Pardew just hasn't been able to construct a new competent defensive unit now that the decent one he inherited is no longer there, despite having more gifted personnel.

 

Think similar things are true of a lot of the above comments IMO.

 

The underlined bit is a fair point. I don't think Santon and Debuchy in particular are as good as they are made out to be though. Santon still has a lot to learn, mainly about the defensive side of the game, and Debuchy is having huge trouble adapting to a new league. I would say the two of them are distinctly midtable at best for now.

 

Perhaps. I would say that I think Newcastle fans will understandably have a tendency to see them as they are not as they could be, or what they were, for that matter.

 

My mate, a big Inter Milan fan, doesn't even recognise the Santon he sees in a Newcastle shirt these days. Says his main strength/attribute used to be his defensive qualities!

 

The lack of organisation/cohesiveness in the long-term will make every individual look that much poorer. IMO.

 

I think the opposite holds true just as much. If you've seen first hand how good a player can be on his day, or on a purple patch, it becomes hard to be objective and only after time do people realise the player hasn't actually been as good as when they gained their reputation for a long time. It took us over a year to see Tiote's failings collectively, and you can also just see the tide turning with Cisse now, who has been disappointing for the entirety of last season. Fans of other clubs, who just take in the occasional game, see an out of control defensive midfielder who wants to break forward, but can't do it effectively, and a striker low on confidence who is clumsily offside far too often and doesn't contribute much to our forward play by holding the ball up and bringing others into play. All this time we are sitting there thinking our first XI looks fabulous on paper.

 

It's not just us, I think the same phenomenon happens at every club across the globe. It's hard to stay objective when you're emotionally involved.

[Interpolic]

Or our players have been playing shit football under a shit manager with shit tactics and shit patter for a while after his traditional honeymoon period at a club is over.

 

I'm not having this craic about our players suddenly being totally shit because they've been playing in a terrible team playing terrible football like. Why did so many of the January signings come in and look good then turn to shit then?

 

Manager's terrible, he's got the team playing terribly, actually the players are rubbish.  Watch out potential NUFC signings, you'll be rubbish within a month.

[Unbelievable]

He should do miles better with the players available to him, howay.  There are a few positions where we're not too strong but that's no excuse for the s**** served up.

I'm of the opinion that the squad isn't as good as some like to believe. Theres the basis of a good squad but its sorely lacking in key area's. Our full backs all to one extent or another (excluding dummet from this due to lack of seeing him play yet) can't defend. And aren't all that great at attacking either. This leaves gaping holes side's can exploit to their hearts content (were I West Ham this coming saturday I'd be specifically targeting Debuchy and wait for him to do something stupid) Colo's a very good cb but not a complete one, he struggles badly against really pacey players and really physical frontmen and none of our other cbs really cover that weakness. Taylor's the closest to covering them but he lacks a functional brain while MYM could cope with pace I'd be very hesitant to put him and colo together against the strong strikers of the league.

 

Cabaye is a very good central midfielder and our key creative player, pity he wants to go. Tiote's forgotten how to play football and just picks up yellow cards for a living now. Sissoko hasn't demonstrated much creativity yet and seems mainly to keep things ticking over and win the ball, but thats what Tiote's supposed to do as well (in theory). Anita hasn't coped with the physical side of the prem at all.

 

None of our wingers (or players we assign to play on the wing because we have no one else) have much natural width or the real killer pace to get behind defences, not slow mind you just lacking the real cutting edge of pace. HBA can be unplayable on his day but he keeps getting injured and it takes time to get going at full ability once he's back, or he gets injured again. Marveaux is just kind of there, decent passer could be quite creative but hasn't been able to get a run together of consistent performances and picks up injuries as well.

 

And finally our strike force oh boy our strike force. Cisse, good enough in the box but last season missed several very scorable chances. Also can't stay onside or be useful in any way at all outside the box. Everything has to be completely laid on a plate for him which is not always possible which leaves us with a problem against the top sides. Shola is f***ing Shola. Gouffrans been used on the wing (for lack of anyone else to put there) and is no good there. Not seen him as a striker enough to judge. Remy I'm ignoring as he hasn't played for us yet but one point, our one summer signing is a loan of a guy who turned us down for relegation certs 6 months ago and is probably only here because no one else would touch him with the court case hanging over him and he could potentially go to prison half way through the season!

 

Another excellent post. People appear blinded by their hatred for Pardew and they can't see the wood for the trees.

 

Tbh I see what you're getting at to a degree, some of our squad are overrated.  But this is a debate that will never go anywhere because we've never seen this squad play under another manager.  I'm firmly of the opinion that the players are playing miles below their ability because he's treating apples like oranges, he's trying to play cautious tedium-ball with players that are not well suited for it.  The squad is what it is, he's not going to get Allardyce results from players that aren't suited to Allardyce-type football, as Allardyce found out ironically enough when he tried to hoof the ball up to Martins and Owen when he was here.

 

But Unbelievable!, you're totally contradicting yourself here, "People appear blinded by their hatred for Pardew and they can't see the wood for the trees" when in your very last post you said that you'd like to see them under another manager and that Pardew's on a hiding to nothing with players that don't suit his style.  I'm not blinded by my hatred of Pardew at all personally, I recognise that the squad isn't perfect but we're not even getting mediocre performances out of them at the minute.

 

I am not contradicting myself at all. I do recognise Pardew is a problem, a pretty f***ing big one at that. But he didn't appoint himself, or give himself a new contract. Obviously the club (owner) had enough faith in him to hand him a lucrative, new long term deal for the sake of stability, but not enough to give him a say in the type of player we buy, because our transfer policy does not have the aim to help our on the pitch objectives, it aims at achieving off the pitch commercial objectives. The whole setup is fundamentally flawed, and my concern is Pardew is the main figurehead for the blame, whereas it should be directed at the owner for installing such a incoherent setup in the first place.

 

Don't take this personally (you appear to be a bit radge recently, and if even I'm saying that you should probably calm doon ) but you are contradicting yourself.

 

You're expressing your agreement at a post pointing out the limitations of our players, he didn't mention Ashley or the way the club is run.  By saying "People appear blinded by their hatred for Pardew and they can't see the wood for the trees" to that post you're surely saying you simply agree that the players are overrated, since that was the post you're agreeing with, you know the one that didn't mention Ashley or the way the club is run at all.

 

Explain to me how the following statements contradict then please:

 

- Pardew is a limited manager who has a squad that is not suited to his playing style

- Our squad is weak in numbers and quality for a club aiming to be in the top 8or above, which appears to be the case from club statements

- Ashley is an owner who doesn't have a clue about how to run a football club or couldn't give a shit about how we do on the pitch. His primary concern is to make us into a profitable operation. Opportunism is rife, and no thought goes into how to assemble a manager and squad combination that will make us successful

 

I don't see the contradiction..

[jdckelly]

I don't think our full backs can't defend - Pardew just hasn't been able to construct a new competent defensive unit now that the decent one he inherited is no longer there, despite having more gifted personnel.

 

Think similar things are true of a lot of the above comments IMO.

Santons the best defender of the 3 of them and he's had several brain dead moments which have cost us. Haidara's a kid and still learning and Debuchy the seasoned pro the french international rb has demonstrated no knowledge of defending at all. Not even a hint of it. In fact has demonstrated more of an ability to gift the opposition chances or penalties. He should not need a manager to hold his hand and tell him not to lunge or take risky chances near our box. Tiote shouldn't need a manager to tell him not to recklessly tackle the opposition, Cisse shouldn't need someone to teach him the basics of the offside rule. They should know this stuff already, many of them are internationals they're all highly paid professionals they should have the basic desire to learn to cut out these school boy errors without someone needing to hold their hand and tell them exactly what to do.

 

Again, I would say this is removing the context and isolating them from one another unrealistically. All those players are being stretched into doing unnatural things, venturing into areas they don't really belong, trying to do too much, or taking on rules unsuited to their skillsets... and it impacts on their ability to do the basics in their 'orthodox' roles.

 

Santon is the best example I can see of this from last season, but I think it's true of most of the team to varying extents. Santon was palpably frustrated by the static/easily-telegraphed "attacking strategy" ahead of him, so he went forward enthusiastically, but recklessly - leaving us exposed. We went chasing games and it just got worse and worse, and he got more and more despondent (or at least so it seemed).

 

I think it's one of those things where I don't think we'll ever really gauge how good the squad is/isn't.

Part of them being stretched into doing things they'd rather not do is to do with the whole squad makeup, Cisse has to venture outside the box to try to hold up the ball because there is literally no one else to do it, had he a strike partner who could do what Edin Dzeko did to us on Monday and help create chances for Cisse then I'd have very little to say about him. But the only option for that is Shola and well.............

 

Part of the problem for our attacking strategy is a serious lack of width and none of our central midfields natural game is to get up and support the striker. HBA is the closest to the width but he cuts inside with the best of them which is fine it can work but some games you do need to stretch defenses with pace and width and we just have nobody to do it. You can see Pardew's knows about these problems too with the attempt to play sissoko off cisse which was worth a try but really its not his game. Cabaye has been touted by some for that but imho he's best deep playing alongside someone like Tiote (or potentially Sissoko) helping to sweep up in front of defense and spraying balls from deep.

 

I'm not saying Pardew's completely blameless here far from it he's made stupid mistakes and our awful set pieces (which are his department above all else) is a big demonstration of that, but some here believe all would be well if we just sacked Pardew and got someone else in while I'm of the opinion that the deep rooted problems of squad imbalance, complete lack of vision and clear thought in transfer policy beyond cheap and resale and the just supreme chaos of the Ashley regime just won't go away that easily and will cause as much problem for Pardew's eventual successor as it is to him right now.

 

(also not trying to beat down on Santon, I do honestly rate and like him but he still has a ways to go one of which is cut out the stupid mistakes in defense now, I'd give him a lot more room for error than I would Debuchy on age alone)

[Interpolic]

He should do miles better with the players available to him, howay.  There are a few positions where we're not too strong but that's no excuse for the s**** served up.

 

The players are pretty good (if you ignore it's mainly just the first 11 and we're unlikely to see them play together often due to injuries, suspensions, etc), but that's like saying a motorcycle racer should be able to do well on an Arab race horse. Pardew's approach to football is simple and old fashioned, which would work well with a certain type of player, that is the complete opposite of what we have in the squad. There is a huge mismatch, which has been created beyond his control. The person responsible for the mismatch between manager and squad (qualitative and quantitative) is most responsible imho.

 

He should do miles better with the players available to him, howay.  There are a few positions where we're not too strong but that's no excuse for the shite served up.

I'm of the opinion that the squad isn't as good as some like to believe. Theres the basis of a good squad but its sorely lacking in key area's. Our full backs all to one extent or another (excluding dummet from this due to lack of seeing him play yet) can't defend. And aren't all that great at attacking either. This leaves gaping holes side's can exploit to their hearts content (were I West Ham this coming saturday I'd be specifically targeting Debuchy and wait for him to do something stupid) Colo's a very good cb but not a complete one, he struggles badly against really pacey players and really physical frontmen and none of our other cbs really cover that weakness. Taylor's the closest to covering them but he lacks a functional brain while MYM could cope with pace I'd be very hesitant to put him and colo together against the strong strikers of the league.

 

Cabaye is a very good central midfielder and our key creative player, pity he wants to go. Tiote's forgotten how to play football and just picks up yellow cards for a living now. Sissoko hasn't demonstrated much creativity yet and seems mainly to keep things ticking over and win the ball, but thats what Tiote's supposed to do as well (in theory). Anita hasn't coped with the physical side of the prem at all.

 

None of our wingers (or players we assign to play on the wing because we have no one else) have much natural width or the real killer pace to get behind defences, not slow mind you just lacking the real cutting edge of pace. HBA can be unplayable on his day but he keeps getting injured and it takes time to get going at full ability once he's back, or he gets injured again. Marveaux is just kind of there, decent passer could be quite creative but hasn't been able to get a run together of consistent performances and picks up injuries as well.

 

And finally our strike force oh boy our strike force. Cisse, good enough in the box but last season missed several very scorable chances. Also can't stay onside or be useful in any way at all outside the box. Everything has to be completely laid on a plate for him which is not always possible which leaves us with a problem against the top sides. Shola is fucking Shola. Gouffrans been used on the wing (for lack of anyone else to put there) and is no good there. Not seen him as a striker enough to judge. Remy I'm ignoring as he hasn't played for us yet but one point, our one summer signing is a loan of a guy who turned us down for relegation certs 6 months ago and is probably only here because no one else would touch him with the court case hanging over him and he could potentially go to prison half way through the season!

 

Another excellent post. People appear blinded by their hatred for Pardew and they can't see the wood for the trees.

 

That's what I was originally responding to, you've since added loads to your post.

 

I've explained what I mean, you were agreeing with a post that was laying into our players without any mention of Ashley or how unsuitable the players are to Pardew's style.  Just basically a post downplaying their abilities and saying they aren't much cop at all.  Sort of contradicts "The players are pretty good" and how much you'd like to see them under another manager, etc. 

 

Therefore "People appear blinded by their hatred for Pardew and they can't see the wood for the trees" is unfair and contradictory.  It's possible to hate Pardew, realise Ashley's a poison and also that our players aren't worldbeaters but still 10x better than they're showing at the minute you know.  Which is all I was trying to say.

[Zero]

I think the key point of what unbelievable was trying to make, and what I agree with, is that even Pardew's gone the problem would still be there, unless we got a manager who's exact fit with the players Carr recommended to our team, but thats' like drawing lots.  The next manager could still have the same mismatch problem, has no say in transfer market, has to be prepared for letting key players leave, etc.  The flawed set-up will always result in below par performance.

[Unbelievable]

And I 100% agree with that last statement, as I've explained above, so if I'm contradicting myself, then so are you..

 

Off to bed now. Nightynight..

[Interpolic]

I think the key point of what unbelievable was trying to make, and what I agree with, is that even Pardew's gone the problem would still be there, unless we got a manager who's exact fit with the players Carr recommended to our team, but thats' like drawing lots.  The next manager could still have the same mismatch problem, has no say in transfer market, has to be prepared for letting key players leave, etc.  The flawed set-up will always result in below par performance.

 

OK then, I'm not sure I agree whatsover.  There are plenty of managers that I think could have our team comfortably top 8, if you ignore Ashley being a bell end.

[Unbelievable]

I think the key point of what unbelievable was trying to make, and what I agree with, is that even Pardew's gone the problem would still be there, unless we got a manager who's exact fit with the players Carr recommended to our team, but thats' like drawing lots.  The next manager could still have the same mismatch problem, has no say in transfer market, has to be prepared for letting key players leave, etc.  The flawed set-up will always result in below par performance.

 

[Unbelievable]

I think the key point of what unbelievable was trying to make, and what I agree with, is that even Pardew's gone the problem would still be there, unless we got a manager who's exact fit with the players Carr recommended to our team, but thats' like drawing lots.  The next manager could still have the same mismatch problem, has no say in transfer market, has to be prepared for letting key players leave, etc.  The flawed set-up will always result in below par performance.

 

OK then, I'm not sure I agree whatsover.  There are plenty of managers that I think could have our team comfortably top 8, if you ignore Ashley being a bell end.

 

None of whom would work for Ashley under these conditions, which is the entire point..

[Interpolic]

Bloody hell, I thought Dutch people were meant to be chilled out.  I wasn't after an almighty but tedious war.

[Interpolic]

I think the key point of what unbelievable was trying to make, and what I agree with, is that even Pardew's gone the problem would still be there, unless we got a manager who's exact fit with the players Carr recommended to our team, but thats' like drawing lots.  The next manager could still have the same mismatch problem, has no say in transfer market, has to be prepared for letting key players leave, etc.  The flawed set-up will always result in below par performance.

 

OK then, I'm not sure I agree whatsover.  There are plenty of managers that I think could have our team comfortably top 8, if you ignore Ashley being a bell end.

 

None of whom would work for Ashley under these conditions, which is the entire point..

 

Eh?!

 

How does that relate to you agreeing with a post about all of our players being overrated, which didn't mention their suitability to Pardew's tactics, or Ashley, at all?

 

 

[Mick]

I find it insane that people think that our serial failure would do better if he could buy his own players, it hasn't really helped him in the past.

 

It's as if some people have never heard of Pardew before he came here.