Alan Pardew

[Guest firetotheworks]

I take it that everyone is ignoring my There's a Middle Ground post?

[Hanshithispantz]

Comparing Ferguson's achievements over 2 and a half decades to a solitary 5th place finish and early exit from both domestic cups

 

Aye, that's what I was doing.

 

Oh dear.

So what were you doing by bringing Ferguson into the conversation if not comparing the 2 managers and their achievements side by side with their resources?

 

It's reasonable to assume that, using the term in it's broadest sense, Pardew can get results by just "picking the best team", I don't think we can really say that about his 5th place finish (and early exit from both domestic cups) as we were a very rigid unit for large parts of the season, but in games like Villa where certain players are in unplayable form I think there's enough evidence to suggest that it's at least half true. You cannot really say that about someone who has consistently kept a team as one of the best sides on the planet for over 2 decades.

[Guest bimpy474]

It's encouraging, no more no less. No one can argue that we have played better shorter football. The interesting thing really will be an injury or two, and/or a big defeat which everyone will get but it's how he reacts, we've seen in the past a very defensive reaction, hopefully we willl not this time.

[mrmojorisin75]

Pardew was a big part to blame for last season and made a lot of errors however you're an idiot if you think the solution was that simple.

 

oh ok then, as i'm an idiot perhaps you can enlighten me how everything has changed so suddenly then given that we have

 

the same manager

the same players (+ remy but he's barely played a full game total)

the same coaching staff

 

he talked about playing passing football last year yet we played the opposite, i personally attribute that to his playing certain people who consistently underperformed last year when all evidence said drop them combined with his tactical approach to be defensive and not lose games and playing people in the wrong place...the players were never suited for the style of football last year, it was so obvious man

 

of course it's not as simple as just playing 11 players but perhaps it's as simple as being forced to play anita which imo has been the catalyst for us to realise we're able to pass the ball around short, keep possession and attack teams properly....this is the same anita he chose to overlook last season even when he was the only positive thing we had around the holiday period

 

at the end of the day if he's getting credit for the last few games, he deserves everything that comes with how bad last season was

 

look at it another way, vs. villa if he'd played cabaye in the anita role, cisse in the remy role and sissoko as a number 10 do you think we'd have performed as well?  neither do i, it's the type of shit he was pulling all last year though...playing players in the right place can make a massive difference man

[mrmojorisin75]

Makes you wonder why anyone licked Ferguson's arse when it's that easy.

 

He spent hundreds of millions anarl.

 

is that a response to me?  either way it's a fucking terrible post

 

Not as bad as suggesting that good players just need to be played in the right position and success is then inevitable.

 

well i was being flippant, see my response to brett for more detail, and the point wasn't that success would be inevitable playing players in the right place - it was that in doing so he would have had a much better chance of avoiding the abject failure of last season

 

i thought that was fucking obvious, apparently not

[Guest bimpy474]

Something is wrong with Pardews thinking, when if we get an injury or two, which we will as every team does. Rather than stay 4-3-3, he will almost definitely change to a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-4-2 system to cope with them imo (hope he doesn't).

 

The squad is better playing 4-3-3, why not just place a player possibly not as suited to a position in a 4-3-3, say such as Jonas (hear me out) wide left of the front 3 as an example. And keep the system most of the squad are suited too and more comfortable with, Rather than go to a system that nearly all the squad are very poor in.

 

I'd rather see a player or two slightly out of position covering injuries, than a whole team struggling. Anyway imo we have cover in a 4-3-3, Gouffran for any of the front 3 positions, Sammy/Obertan for both wide positions up front. Tiote/Marv/Jonas/Gosling/Bigi/Haris while not great cover the central midfield 3. Shola (haha) covering Cisse down the middle. I dont get changing the system because of a couple of injuries.

 

And tbh why we haven't been using 4-3-3 for so long either, there's simply isn't an excuse for not using it for over a season until now when you look at the players Pardew has.

 

We played 4-2-3-1 on Saturday, Bimpy. We've really never played 4-3-3 with Pardew in charge, there's always been someone at the tip of a midfield triangle. 2 years ago it was Cabaye, last year Sissoko, Cabaye again on the weekend.

 

Whoscored have the players' positional maps.

 

Sorry GT i can't agree, positional maps etc, as good as they may be, i trust my eyes, and for me we played 4-3-3 on the attack, 4-5-1 when defending. Subtle as it may have looked that's how i saw it.

[NG32]

We've had an away win agianst a side that rarely wins at home.

 

Whilst it was good, we cant really judge anything yet.  Lets just see how things progress.

 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

"All he has to do is pick the team" is just a throw away term used when a manager's success is what it is primarily because of the players at his disposal, it obviously isn't a suggestion that that is, in a literal sense, all he has to do. You have to assume that he has at least the basic abilities, roles and responsibilities of a football manager.

[TRon]

Makes you wonder why anyone licked Ferguson's arse when it's that easy.

 

He spent hundreds of millions anarl.

 

is that a response to me?  either way it's a fucking terrible post

 

Not as bad as suggesting that good players just need to be played in the right position and success is then inevitable.

 

It's still a better idea than playing good players in the wrong positions IMO.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Quite a big part of a managers job is to do as little damage as possible TBH. Obviously the top ones do much more than that, but I think there's a lot of truth in it.

[Happy Face]

Makes you wonder why anyone licked Ferguson's arse when it's that easy.

 

He spent hundreds of millions anarl.

 

is that a response to me?  either way it's a fucking terrible post

 

Not as bad as suggesting that good players just need to be played in the right position and success is then inevitable.

 

well i was being flippant, see my response to brett for more detail, and the point wasn't that success would be inevitable playing players in the right place - it was that in doing so he would have had a much better chance of avoiding the abject failure of last season

 

i thought that was fucking obvious, apparently not

 

The abject failure of last season was an awful run of results from early November to mid January when we were forced into starting games with Sammy Ameobi and Shane Ferguson, as well as Williamson, Simpson and their ilk.  We lost 10 out of 13 following a 10 game run at the start of the season where only Man u and Chelsea could beat us.

 

Playing players where they play is a good start, but even in their most favoured positions, some players are not good enough.  That can also tend to lead to a lack of faith from the manager and the desperate plugging of holes by juggling those payers who are good enough for the league.

[mrmojorisin75]

"All he has to do is pick the team" is just a throw away term used when a manager's success is what it is primarily because of the players at his disposal, it obviously isn't a suggestion that that is, in a literal sense, all he has to do. You have to assume that he has at least the basic abilities, roles and responsibilities of a football manager.

 

thank christ

 

and what ian w just said, pardew did the opposite of that with his fear-based approach last year...imo he did more damage than good last year in almost every sense

[AyeDubbleYoo]

"All he has to do is pick the team" is just a throw away term used when a manager's success is what it is primarily because of the players at his disposal, it obviously isn't a suggestion that that is, in a literal sense, all he has to do. You have to assume that he has at least the basic abilities, roles and responsibilities of a football manager.

 

thank christ

 

and what ian w just said, pardew did the opposite of that with his fear-based approach last year...imo he did more damage than good last year in almost every sense

 

Yep, he definitely wasn't able to put the problems right, and in some ways made a lot of them worse. For someone who comes across as confident, he actually seems to lack the belief needed to make positive changes at times. I was hoping that with a good start he could improve on that this season.

[TRon]

It wasn't just about picking players out of position, something he's done regularly in his time here, he also made the Allardyce-esque mistake of trying to play a physical game with technical players. Something he himself recognised by changing to a passing game midway through the season.

 

HF can defend him all he likes, it still won't change the fact he picked James Perch and Tiote in the same midfield.

[Happy Face]

Pardew's made loads of mistakes.

 

He's come out in post match interviews and held his hands up to say he can't blame the players because he got stuff wrong.

 

I'm not defending those mistakes.  I'm giving him credit when  he gets it right.  The very least he deserves.

[BrettNUFC]

Pardew was a big part to blame for last season and made a lot of errors however you're an idiot if you think the solution was that simple.

 

oh ok then, as i'm an idiot perhaps you can enlighten me how everything has changed so suddenly then given that we have

 

the same manager

the same players (+ remy but he's barely played a full game total)

the same coaching staff

 

he talked about playing passing football last year yet we played the opposite, i personally attribute that to his playing certain people who consistently underperformed last year when all evidence said drop them combined with his tactical approach to be defensive and not lose games and playing people in the wrong place...the players were never suited for the style of football last year, it was so obvious man

 

of course it's not as simple as just playing 11 players but perhaps it's as simple as being forced to play anita which imo has been the catalyst for us to realise we're able to pass the ball around short, keep possession and attack teams properly....this is the same anita he chose to overlook last season even when he was the only positive thing we had around the holiday period

 

at the end of the day if he's getting credit for the last few games, he deserves everything that comes with how bad last season was

 

look at it another way, vs. villa if he'd played cabaye in the anita role, cisse in the remy role and sissoko as a number 10 do you think we'd have performed as well?  neither do i, it's the type of s*** he was pulling all last year though...playing players in the right place can make a massive difference man

 

I banged on all summer how last year was just a total write off imo. Everything was going wrong for us and Pardew didn’t have the tactical knowledge or experience to stop the sour run and it just snowballed. He started the season with demands from Ba not playing on the wing, we were very effective with him out there and this was the catalyst to where it all went wrong, we never replicated that balance ever again. As soon as Remy signed I said on here that we will go straight back to that formation and look a far better side, that’s exactly what happened. People on here still doubted we would do that and insisted hoof ball was the future yet you could see over pre-season we were passing the ball a lot more around the back 4 then we have ever done and it was clear we were trying to implement this style of play. Pardew’s got his squad fully fit and majority have had full pre-seasons which has helped us massively. Surely it’s time to stop doubting and just get behind them now and actually come to terms with the fact we aren’t this relegation battling team from last season so many claimed we were?

 

[mrmojorisin75]

Playing players where they play is a good start, but even in their most favoured positions, some players are not good enough.  That can also tend to lead to a lack of faith from the manager and the desperate plugging of holes by juggling those payers who are good enough for the league.

 

how would you know when he's playing people out of position and gameplan that does not suit any of them except Ba (until he left)?

 

you're totally hung up 'playing in the right places' now but i've already said his woeful gameplan vs. the players he had at his disposal, plus his tendency to stick with players who weren't performing, plus playing people in the wrong place were all contributory factors in how awful last year was

 

but keep sticking the one thing i said if you like

 

i always think back to anita when we were on that bad run and cabaye got injured, he came in and played well, was easily our best player at that time and was the main driver in any decent football we played...his reward was to be shitcanned to the bench the moment cabaye returned never to be seen again

[TRon]

Pardew's made loads of mistakes.

 

He's come out in post match interviews and held his hands up to say he can't blame the players because he got stuff wrong.

 

I'm not defending those mistakes.  I'm giving him credit when  he gets it right.  The very least he deserves.

 

I think most people here have given him credit for getting it right this week tbf. Yes there are some who are still sceptical but that's because of his record last season which could have got him deservedly sacked at a lot of clubs.

[mrmojorisin75]

Surely it’s time to stop doubting and just get behind them now and actually come to terms with the fact we aren’t this relegation battling team from last season so many claimed we were?

 

nah absolutely, i'm with him as long as he doesn't fuck this up now...however we got here we're here and he has an opportunity which i sincerely hope he takes

 

it was inevitable but i'm more on his side now because him succeeding would stick it to ashley and kinnear which i would really like (as well as it meaning we'd succeed too, obviously)

 

uncharted territory for pards isn't it, will this now be his second longest managerial job?  he's certainly never been around this long in the PL

[BrettNUFC]

Surely it’s time to stop doubting and just get behind them now and actually come to terms with the fact we aren’t this relegation battling team from last season so many claimed we were?

 

nah absolutely, i'm with him as long as he doesn't f*** this up now...however we got here we're here and he has an opportunity which i sincerely hope he takes

 

it was inevitable but i'm more on his side now because him succeeding would stick it to ashley and kinnear which i would really like (as well as it meaning we'd succeed too, obviously)

 

uncharted territory for pards isn't it, will this now be his second longest managerial job?  he's certainly never been around this long in the PL

 

Welcome aboard 

[Happy Face]

Pardew's made loads of mistakes.

 

He's come out in post match interviews and held his hands up to say he can't blame the players because he got stuff wrong.

 

I'm not defending those mistakes.  I'm giving him credit when  he gets it right.  The very least he deserves.

 

I think most people here have given him credit for getting it right this week tbf. Yes there are some who are still sceptical but that's because of his record last season which could have got him deservedly sacked at a lot of clubs.

 

Not just his weekend.

 

I think we've been on an upward trajectory (generally) since late January (since the window closed), even while being disgusted by some performances such as the Mackems and Liverpool.

[Flip]

Pardew's made loads of mistakes.

 

He's come out in post match interviews and held his hands up to say he can't blame the players because he got stuff wrong.

 

I'm not defending those mistakes.  I'm giving him credit when  he gets it right.  The very least he deserves.

 

I think most people here have given him credit for getting it right this week tbf. Yes there are some who are still sceptical but that's because of his record last season which could have got him deservedly sacked at a lot of clubs.

 

Not just his weekend.

 

I think we've been on an upward trajectory (generally) since late January (since the window closed), even while being disgusted by some performances such as the Mackems and Liverpool.

 

Well that's not true at all. We've been vastly inconsistent since January and even with all the new signings we were a game or two away from relegation. This is such a fickle game, it's unbelievable. Two wins and people are forgetting we were close to going down last season with Krul, Colo, Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Santon, Cisse + 3 or 4 important new january signings. Take Ben Arfa off the team and we'll struggle badly again, Pardew at least has tried to have the team play a passing game the last two games, so I'll give him credit for that.

 

But he still insisted in starting Shola in the PL just two weeks ago so it's not like he's been faultless.

[Happy Face]

Pardew's made loads of mistakes.

 

He's come out in post match interviews and held his hands up to say he can't blame the players because he got stuff wrong.

 

I'm not defending those mistakes.  I'm giving him credit when  he gets it right.  The very least he deserves.

 

I think most people here have given him credit for getting it right this week tbf. Yes there are some who are still sceptical but that's because of his record last season which could have got him deservedly sacked at a lot of clubs.

 

Not just his weekend.

 

I think we've been on an upward trajectory (generally) since late January (since the window closed), even while being disgusted by some performances such as the Mackems and Liverpool.

 

Well that's not true at all. We've been vastly inconsistent since January and even with all the new signings we were a game or two away from relegation. This is such a fickle game, it's unbelievable. Two wins and people are forgetting we were close to going down last season with Krul, Colo, Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Santon, Cisse + 3 or 4 important new january signings. Take Ben Arfa off the team and we'll struggle badly again, Pardew at least has tried to have the team play a passing game the last two games, so I'll give him credit for that.

 

But he still insisted in starting Shola in the PL just two weeks ago so it's not like he's been faultless.

 

In more than 7 months, Pardew has lost 8 games.

 

5 of them against top 6 opposition....

 

Manchester City x 2

Arsenal

Tottenham Hotspur

Liverpool

 

Of the remaining three, two were on the road. 

 

Swansea City (A)

Wigan Athletic (A)

Sunderland (H)

 

The Sunderland game stands alone as his most shameful moment.

 

Outside the league he also lost to Benfica in the Europa QF, which there was no shame in.

[Guest]

Liverpool weren't top 6 opposition.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Think we need to tone down the Pardew praise for a while lads.