Happy Face Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 If people are going to argue a point about the value of our squad I don't see how anyone can have a problem with some numbers showing how much it's actually worth. You can use stats any way that you want. The Cabaye valuation at £4.5m is a case in point. Somewhere down the line you have to use some common sense to draw a conclusion from it, and this is where there is disagreement and in some cases deliberate distortion to support a viewpoint which flies in the face of what we are all seeing with our own eyes. By the same token, there are players whose value has reduced. Obertan, Cisse, Gutierrez, Coloccini....Anita and Mbiwa? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Jesus man 1 is based on transfer fees paid (transferleague.co.uk) the other is based on an objective estimation (transfermarkt) Of course they vary. Everton, for example, have the 12th most valuable squad baseed on transfer fees paid, but transfermarkt rightly values their squad at 7th based on an objective estimation. Gotcha. I hadn't read the blurbs. I don't think the argument is happening in the Pardew thread for no reason though. Clearly inferences are being made from the fact Newcastle have the 8th biggest spend on current squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezertron Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Are we still arguing whether he's a bad manager? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 1 is based on transfer fees paid (transferleague.co.uk) They report our squad value as £83m, but that doesn't tally with the squad page where they list prices. Who have i missed that cost £6m? Fabrizio Coloccini £10,300,000 Papiss Demba Cisse £10,000,000 Jonas Gutierrez £7,000,000 Vurnon Anita £6,700,000 Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa £6,700,000 Hatem Ben Arfa £5,750,000 Mathieu Debuchy £5,500,000 Davide Santon £5,300,000 Yohan Cabaye £5,000,000 Ismael Tioté £3,500,000 Gabriel Obertan £3,000,000 Moussa Sissoko £2,500,000 Massadio Haidara £2,000,000 Yoan Gouffran £1,200,000 Gael Bigirimana £1,000,000 Mike Williamson £1,000,000 Sebastian Bassong kk £500,000 Curtis Good £400,000 Robert Elliot £100,000 Total £77,450,000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Sebastian Bassong? Seems legit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I think we've agreed, he's shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 If people are going to argue a point about the value of our squad I don't see how anyone can have a problem with some numbers showing how much it's actually worth. You can use stats any way that you want. The Cabaye valuation at £4.5m is a case in point. Somewhere down the line you have to use some common sense to draw a conclusion from it, and this is where there is disagreement and in some cases deliberate distortion to support a viewpoint which flies in the face of what we are all seeing with our own eyes. By the same token, there are players whose value has reduced. Obertan, Cisse, Gutierrez, Coloccini....Anita and Mbiwa? It could be, but then I still believe there's more than enough good quality players for a shrewd manager to forge a side which should be finishing around 7th/8th this season. I also believe there's enough quality players to put together a side with a coherent game plan and style which can put on decent displays for 90 mins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Sebastian Bassong? Seems legit My mistake leaving that one in... Fabrizio Coloccini £10,300,000 Papiss Demba Cisse £10,000,000 Jonas Gutierrez £7,000,000 Vurnon Anita £6,700,000 Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa £6,700,000 Hatem Ben Arfa £5,750,000 Mathieu Debuchy £5,500,000 Davide Santon £5,300,000 Yohan Cabaye £5,000,000 Ismael Tioté £3,500,000 Gabriel Obertan £3,000,000 Moussa Sissoko £2,500,000 Massadio Haidara £2,000,000 Yoan Gouffran £1,200,000 Gael Bigirimana £1,000,000 Mike Williamson £1,000,000 Curtis Good £400,000 Robert Elliot £100,000 Total £76,950,000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 If people are going to argue a point about the value of our squad I don't see how anyone can have a problem with some numbers showing how much it's actually worth. You can use stats any way that you want. The Cabaye valuation at £4.5m is a case in point. Somewhere down the line you have to use some common sense to draw a conclusion from it, and this is where there is disagreement and in some cases deliberate distortion to support a viewpoint which flies in the face of what we are all seeing with our own eyes. By the same token, there are players whose value has reduced. Obertan, Cisse, Gutierrez, Coloccini....Anita and Mbiwa? It could be, but then I still believe there's more than enough good quality players for a shrewd manager to forge a side which should be finishing around 7th/8th this season. I also believe there's enough quality players to put together a side with a coherent game plan and style which can put on decent displays for 90 mins. I believe 7th/8th should be the very most anyone should expect of any manager of the players we have. I think 9th to 12th is acceptable as there's 6 teams there or thereabouts. 13th or lower would be a disappointment from these players/manager..and was last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 It's very fitting this thread, it is just as tedious as watching a Pardew team on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 It's very fitting this thread, it is just as tedious as watching a Pardew team on the pitch. And the will never be a coup de grace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Sebastian Bassong? Seems legit My mistake leaving that one in... Fabrizio Coloccini £10,300,000 Papiss Demba Cisse £10,000,000 Jonas Gutierrez £7,000,000 Vurnon Anita £6,700,000 Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa £6,700,000 Hatem Ben Arfa £5,750,000 Mathieu Debuchy £5,500,000 Davide Santon £5,300,000 Yohan Cabaye £5,000,000 Ismael Tioté £3,500,000 Gabriel Obertan £3,000,000 Moussa Sissoko £2,500,000 Massadio Haidara £2,000,000 Yoan Gouffran £1,200,000 Gael Bigirimana £1,000,000 Mike Williamson £1,000,000 Curtis Good £400,000 Robert Elliot £100,000 Total £76,950,000 Remy (if he counts). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Also, where are the Taylors? Seems a few are missing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Also, where are the Taylors? Seems a few are missing. Remy's a loan so not included. Steve Taylor cost nothing and they have Ryan Taylor as a free transfer (swap deal). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I meant the tedium of the graphs/stats in general i this thread. Its becoming mind numbing I find it a bit of a relief from all the text TBH. At least it's coloured in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Strange that so much credence is given to the Pardew bashing numbers saying we should be 8th best according to the value of our squad, but put those numbers into the context a graph offers, that challenges the extent of Pardew's advantage, and they're dismissed as tedious. No offence but the graphs/pie charts/stats are just horrendously tedious. We all watch football and draw our own conclusions based on that. There is no stat for team cohesion, attacking intent, fluidity. You just watch the games and make up your mind. A while ago James perch got a 100% pass completion rate for us. Does that mean he's a great passer? No. The data does not show any situational factors . It's not match related data. It's some websites opinion on squad values. I said I place no credence in the data whatsoever. But if people ARE going to quote it as evidence of managerial short comings, then it's fair game to contextualise it in response. I never went and got a load of boring old data and made an argument and backed it up with a graph. Someone else sourced the (make believe) data and used it to criticise Pardew with little objection. Only when i look more closely at it does there seem to be a backlash against how boring it is. I meant the tedium of the graphs/stats in general i this thread. Its becoming mind numbing Infograms are lush. Love the guardian data blog. Their interactive bar chart for the types of arrests at football grounds is lovely... http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/oct/09/football-related-arrests-by-club-offence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tall_infographics.png Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Also, where are the Taylors? Seems a few are missing. Remy's a loan so not included. Steve Taylor cost nothing and they have Ryan Taylor as a free transfer (swap deal). Ah soz, I only glanced and presumed it was the one based on value rather than fees, obviously not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Also, where are the Taylors? Seems a few are missing. Remy's a loan so not included. Steve Taylor cost nothing and they have Ryan Taylor as a free transfer (swap deal). Ah soz, I only glanced and presumed it was the one based on value rather than fees, obviously not. Not knitt picking here and I know we loaned Remy but we still had to pay a fee to loan him. Also Ashley seems to calculate the value of the wages in with the transfer fee, so if Ashley uses that model to show costs then Taylor isn't free?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 It's very fitting this thread, it is just as tedious as watching a Pardew team on the pitch. Things should become a bit more interesting tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tall_infographics.png Hopefully by then all our games will be played on paper then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnes23 Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I think we all know that we have a starting 11 inferior to the top six, but would like to think we were competitive with most of the others. IMO if you compare Everton's starting 11 with ours, apart from Krul maybe for Howard, and Cabaye somewhere in their midfield, none of the rest of our players would start for them. Apart from the obvious inclusions of Baines and Lukaku, I don't think many Everton players are better than those in our first XI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Jagielka & Distin would walk into our team. Coleman is better than Debuchy on form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 They have a far better team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Our individuals look worse in our shithouse of a team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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