Ikon Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The next three games will define our season.................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Not sure about that given we're playing City, Chelsea & Spurs. Even us at our best would struggle there. Extend that to 5 to include the West Brom & Norwich games, then I'd agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLK Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I I'd argue all day and night that we didn't deserve lose yesterday, a draw would have been fair. We did play by far the better stuff but just couldn't break them down, the early goal meant we wouldn't be able to counter. Call me a WUM all you like but I'm not going to change my views on the back of one game. They beat us, great strike, fair play to them, but I'm not coming on here to slaughter our players. Spot on. I honestly fail to understand how some people want to blame anyone just off load their frustration. Helloooo, this is called football and sh*t like this can happen to any team. We were unlucky with their wonder goal. We did not deserve to lose because we played million times better than them but that is football for you sometimes the best team on the field don't get the results they deserve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezertron Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Sunderland deserved to win because they scored more goals than us. Doesn't matter that it was a wonder goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Fair play on composing the worst post in this thread thus far, SLK. Considering the competition you've had that was some doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 It was the "Helloooo, this is called football" that did it like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slippery Sam Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 'wonder goal'. I despair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 It was the "Helloooo, this is called football" that did it like. The 'million times better than them' is another gem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 It was the "Helloooo, this is called football" that did it like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Makes me cringe whenever I see Moneyball talked about in relation to football. You might as well pop anybody who does on the ignore list tbh. I don't understand how someone can say statistics are not useful in football. They have been fairly effective in basketball, which is also a very fluid game. If you look at managers in the Premiership like Mourinho, Pochettino, Pellegrini, and Lambert, they've all been at their clubs a shorter time than Pardew (in the case of the first two less than six months) and have already given their sides a distinct style and way of playing that is different to what was present before. Even Hughes seems to have imposed himself on Stoke to some degree. The players may not fit their style exactly, but these managers have adjusted and generally made the best out of what they were given. Pardew has managed this team for nearly three years now without an usually high amount of player turnover and still has no idea of how he wants to play, what the best system for the team is, or how to fit players who have been here for quite some time into his systems. What is Pardew's preferred style of play? Listening to his words in the media it seems to be, "fluid attacking football, until something goes wrong and we have to start pumping long ball and sitting back on the 18 yard box because this is the only way to react in such situations". It is thing I dislike most about his tenure here. There is a famous saying, attributed by some to Disraeli, that there are 3 kinds of lies..'Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics'....Politicians of all kinds LOVE the latter most of all because you can prove anything by manipulating the facts in stats.. The only stat I am interested in - apart from the fact we were one game from relegation on the last day of last season - is that Pardew has been sacked by almost every other club he managed....and usually after a similar time span in the job.... I think the animosity to numbers and pictures on here is getting silly. When SSN hoy up a manager's WLD record on screen, which they do following EVERY sacking, do the readers on N-O blanket them with emails about "lies, damn lies and statistics"? It's nowt more than a topic for discussion recognised globally as an interesting measure of how a manager did in his time. The corner stat is fucking atrocious and warrants discussion. Last season, being the team that hit more long balls than anyone else warranted discussion. The data on Alan Pardew's Newcastle isn't big enough to make ANY categoric claims whatsoever, but no-one's claiming something like Pardew reversing the number of long balls so this season we've hit less than 90% of the leagues teams makes him in any way a competent manager. It's just another interesting tidbit that clearly says something about a change in his and the teams methods. No-one (maybe CT?) thinks Marveaux should start because he got most assists last season, or that it should make him a big transfer target from other teams applying the moneyball approach. But it is something to note as interesting. To me at least. It warrants discussion, or if not discussion, then at least a mention. Generating discussion is surely what a forum is about, especially (for example) if a poster claims Pardew is still being a hoofball merchant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Sunderland deserved to win because they scored more goals than us. Doesn't matter that it was a wonder goal. What a horrible approach to look at football. You conceded more goals then they did, so you deserve to lose. If I’m a neutral watching a game of football and I see a team give it their all in trying to break down a team but then other team break away and grab a late winner, am I fuck giving them any credit for a deserved win. I still refuse to believe Chelsea were worthy winners of the Champions League, they couldn’t ride their luck like that if they tried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Sunderland deserved to win because they scored more goals than us. Doesn't matter that it was a wonder goal. What a horrible approach to look at football. You conceded more goals then they did, so you deserve to lose. If I’m a neutral watching a game of football and I see a team give it their all in trying to break down a team but then other team break away and grab a late winner, am I fuck giving them any credit for a deserved win. I still refuse to believe Chelsea were worthy winners of the Champions League, they couldn’t ride their luck like that if they tried. It's also the opposite of what people say when Pardew relies on a wonder strike to get something from a game. ...but Poyet was managing his second game. None of those players are his and he's not had any time to instill his system. He still got the tactics and motivation spot on and got an effective point winning performance. Pardew failed on every level except ball retention for 20 minute periods in both halves, despite it being his team of 3 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Sunderland deserved to win because they scored more goals than us. Doesn't matter that it was a wonder goal. What a horrible approach to look at football. You conceded more goals then they did, so you deserve to lose. If I’m a neutral watching a game of football and I see a team give it their all in trying to break down a team but then other team break away and grab a late winner, am I f*** giving them any credit for a deserved win. I still refuse to believe Chelsea were worthy winners of the Champions League, they couldn’t ride their luck like that if they tried. So, if by some miracle granted by the Gods of football, we managed to get to the final of a major competition where we played Man U and won by Cabaye hitting one of his specials into the top corner in the 89th minute, despite the fact that they spent 80 of the previous minutes battering us, you would be quite happy to hand over the trophy to Man U on the grounds that 'they played better than us'....?? Don't say you would because you will finally destroy any remaining credibility you still have as a poster. Games are won by scoring goals - one Brian Clough, himself a prolific striker, once said 'it only takes a second to score a goal'..he also said that he scored as many with his backside as his head but it didn't matter because they all count as long as they go in..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Sunderland deserved to win because they scored more goals than us. Doesn't matter that it was a wonder goal. What a horrible approach to look at football. You conceded more goals then they did, so you deserve to lose. If I’m a neutral watching a game of football and I see a team give it their all in trying to break down a team but then other team break away and grab a late winner, am I f*** giving them any credit for a deserved win. I still refuse to believe Chelsea were worthy winners of the Champions League, they couldn’t ride their luck like that if they tried. It's also the opposite of what people say when Pardew relies on a wonder strike to get something from a game. ...but Poyet was managing his second game. None of those players are his and he's not had any time to instill his system. He still got the tactics and motivation spot on and got an effective point winning performance. Pardew failed on every level except ball retention for 20 minute periods in both halves, despite it being his team of 3 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 They were the home side, they hardly attacked us, just sat back after an early goal, we changed formation after 10 minutes and took control of the game. I don't think either side showed more motivation than the other, we sat back and done the same to Liverpool, it's not motivational, it's just far easier to look like your working harder when you are sitting deep closing down moves, cutting out the space. If a player can't get himself motivated for a derby game, he doesn't deserve to be in football, you shouldn't need a manager for that type of game to get you up for it, you should question your own character if you fail to do that yourself. It's the so called easier games where complacency can set where a manager should get players motivated for, a derby should come natural to their fire in the belly. I’m not moving on my stance that I thought a draw would have been fair, when their second flew in, I felt sick and I felt robbed as up until then I was still in the belief we would be the ones to go on and get the winner, never even contemplated them scoring again. Even the mackem lad I know doesn’t think they deserved to win and is still worried by their performance for being on the back foot so long at home. If they battered us and raped us, i would be tearing in to the players for rolling over and letting them do that but they didn’t, they took the early goal on the chin and went in seek of an equaliser, then a winner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Sunderland deserved to win because they scored more goals than us. Doesn't matter that it was a wonder goal. What a horrible approach to look at football. You conceded more goals then they did, so you deserve to lose. If I’m a neutral watching a game of football and I see a team give it their all in trying to break down a team but then other team break away and grab a late winner, am I f*** giving them any credit for a deserved win. I still refuse to believe Chelsea were worthy winners of the Champions League, they couldn’t ride their luck like that if they tried. So, if by some miracle granted by the Gods of football, we managed to get to the final of a major competition where we played Man U and won by Cabaye hitting one of his specials into the top corner in the 89th minute, despite the fact that they spent 80 of the previous minutes battering us, you would be quite happy to hand over the trophy to Man U on the grounds that 'they played better than us'....?? Don't say you would because you will finally destroy any remaining credibility you still have as a poster. Games are won by scoring goals - one Brian Clough, himself a prolific striker, once said 'it only takes a second to score a goal'..he also said that he scored as many with his backside as his head but it didn't matter because they all count as long as they go in..... Course you wouldn't hand the cup over but you would be laughing your tits off that you've just stole the game after being battered Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 a draw would have been fair Perhaps, but that's a disgrace in itself. They have lost 6 on the bounce conceding 3 or more in 5 of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 a draw would have been fair Perhaps, but that's a disgrace in itself. They have lost 6 on the bounce conceding 3 or more in 5 of them. I totally agree, i said before the game i'm not sure a draw would be good enough and i think it was SanToon possibly that i argued with when he said ‘he would take a draw in every derby game’ which i was shocked at because we should be looking the beat them on the majority of occasions. Even on Sunday they showed just how bad they were which infuriates me even more that we ended up losing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zippity Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Aalreet. Right, that's the introductions over with. It's funny how people can see the same event yet interpret it so differently. I saw an un-motivated, largely passive-as opposed to passionate-group of players who weren't sure what they were meant to be doing, who created almost nothing in the box, who were played out of position in some cases and who were beaten to the ball or hassled off it time and time again by inferior players. Almost a carbon copy of last April. Once was bad enough (especially with what followed the next week) but twice is unforgivable. Aye, the players need to take some of the blame but, in the main, all of the above is down to Pardew and his coaching team. The time to get rid has long passed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Makes me cringe whenever I see Moneyball talked about in relation to football. You might as well pop anybody who does on the ignore list tbh. I don't understand how someone can say statistics are not useful in football. They have been fairly effective in basketball, which is also a very fluid game. If you look at managers in the Premiership like Mourinho, Pochettino, Pellegrini, and Lambert, they've all been at their clubs a shorter time than Pardew (in the case of the first two less than six months) and have already given their sides a distinct style and way of playing that is different to what was present before. Even Hughes seems to have imposed himself on Stoke to some degree. The players may not fit their style exactly, but these managers have adjusted and generally made the best out of what they were given. Pardew has managed this team for nearly three years now without an usually high amount of player turnover and still has no idea of how he wants to play, what the best system for the team is, or how to fit players who have been here for quite some time into his systems. What is Pardew's preferred style of play? Listening to his words in the media it seems to be, "fluid attacking football, until something goes wrong and we have to start pumping long ball and sitting back on the 18 yard box because this is the only way to react in such situations". It is thing I dislike most about his tenure here. There is a famous saying, attributed by some to Disraeli, that there are 3 kinds of lies..'Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics'....Politicians of all kinds LOVE the latter most of all because you can prove anything by manipulating the facts in stats.. The only stat I am interested in - apart from the fact we were one game from relegation on the last day of last season - is that Pardew has been sacked by almost every other club he managed....and usually after a similar time span in the job.... I think the animosity to numbers and pictures on here is getting silly. When SSN hoy up a manager's WLD record on screen, which they do following EVERY sacking, do the readers on N-O blanket them with emails about "lies, damn lies and statistics"? It's nowt more than a topic for discussion recognised globally as an interesting measure of how a manager did in his time. The corner stat is fucking atrocious and warrants discussion. Last season, being the team that hit more long balls than anyone else warranted discussion. The data on Alan Pardew's Newcastle isn't big enough to make ANY categoric claims whatsoever, but no-one's claiming something like Pardew reversing the number of long balls so this season we've hit less than 90% of the leagues teams makes him in any way a competent manager. It's just another interesting tidbit that clearly says something about a change in his and the teams methods. No-one (maybe CT?) thinks Marveaux should start because he got most assists last season, or that it should make him a big transfer target from other teams applying the moneyball approach. But it is something to note as interesting. To me at least. It warrants discussion, or if not discussion, then at least a mention. Generating discussion is surely what a forum is about, especially (for example) if a poster claims Pardew is still being a hoofball merchant. He's on his 5th album now and still knocking out 2 trackers. Where the fuck is the concept album?!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Aalreet. Right, that's the introductions over with. It's funny how people can see the same event yet interpret it so differently. I saw an un-motivated, largely passive-as opposed to passionate-group of players who weren't sure what they were meant to be doing, who created almost nothing in the box, who were played out of position in some cases and who were beaten to the ball or hassled off it time and time again by inferior players. Almost a carbon copy of last April. Once was bad enough (especially with what followed the next week) but twice is unforgivable. Aye, the players need to take some of the blame but, in the main, all of the above is down to Pardew and his coaching team. The time to get rid has long passed. It's the same players that were getting credit for their motivation against Liverpool though? Did Pardew just give them some amazing speech before that game then lose his script prior to the derby. I didn't see any less motivation, it was a game which wasn't suiting us tactically due to their early goal as they just sat back and that's where we struggle, which is Pardew's fault. We shouldn't look so disorganized and lacking any sort of effective game plan in breaking a side down when those players have the talent to do so if utilized correctly. Pardew needs to take the brunt of the blame for this as although our football has got better this season and we aren’t just going long constantly, we still haven’t found a forward line which can carve out chances which is looking a major problem at this present time. We are relying too much one of our main players (Remy/BenArfa/Cabaye) to produce a moment of magic to win us games when this should be far from the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 And welcome Zip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zippity Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The fact that we didn't fold in the second half against Liverpool surprised almost all of us, I'd imagine; but that sort of performance was a massive exception to the 'norm' that we've witnessed for months and months. The games where we've played with the level of passion we should see every week (doubly so against the mackems) stand out because they're so few and far between. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The fact that we didn't fold in the second half against Liverpool surprised almost all of us, I'd imagine; but that sort of performance was a massive exception to the 'norm' that we've witnessed for months and months. The games where we've played with the level of passion we should see every week (doubly so against the mackems) stand out because they're so few and far between. But it was only the game before that where we didn't fold either against Cardiff and showed were would stand up and fight for the points if needed. Then game before that against Everton, I’m sure people expected it to be 5 or 6 after the first 45 yet there we were looking for an equaliser to make it 3-3 in the closing minutes. The group hasn’t showed like they don’t care or aren’t motivated in recent weeks and I don’t believe that was the case on Sunday, we just lacked ideas on how to break Sunderland down and that’s Pardew’s fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The fact that we didn't fold in the second half against Liverpool surprised almost all of us, I'd imagine; but that sort of performance was a massive exception to the 'norm' that we've witnessed for months and months. The games where we've played with the level of passion we should see every week (doubly so against the mackems) stand out because they're so few and far between. But it was only the game before that where we didn't fold either against Cardiff and showed were would stand up and fight for the points if needed. Then game before that against Everton, I’m sure people expected it to be 5 or 6 after the first 45 yet there we were looking for an equaliser to make it 3-3 in the closing minutes. The group hasn’t showed like they don’t care or aren’t motivated in recent weeks and I don’t believe that was the case on Sunday, we just lacked ideas on how to break Sunderland down and that’s Pardew’s fault. Don't talk about your pops like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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