Interpolic Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 And actually.... thinking it over If there was a clash between Pardew and Carr then absolutely the best thing I could imagine would be a token figurehead to make sure Carr's talent is not wasted while Pardew is given an excuse to be less concerned with transfers. The only more direct way of doing it would be to make Graham Carr Director of Football, which he probably doesn't want anyway and which would just cause open warfare. It could be that bringing in some clod just to fulfill that role is the most efficient way of getting manager and scout to work together. Now all they have to do is lock Kinnear in a dark room and make sure he never speaks to anyone in the media ever again. You're definitely not determined to defend Ashley no matter what, yet you're on here defending the Kinnear appointment. I thought it was the first move of Ashley's that you couldn't in any way defend, but you've managed it pretty sharpish. You couldn't make it up. I've said time and time again that I think bringing in Kinnear is very daft indeed. What I did there was to try to make some sense of the rationale behind it, which I've so far failed to do, but in the light of this stuff about Pardew vs Carr, some new possibilities emerge and it's interesting to discuss them. The idea that he's there solely to act as a buffer and isn't actually here to run the football club is about the most positive spin you can put on it. It *could* be that bringing in some clod to fulfill that role is the most efficient way of getting manager and scout to work together - that doesn't translate to "right, I've decided that bringing Joe Kinnear in was the right decision". Does it. No. Again, you seem desperate to maintain your image of me as someone who will defend everything Ashley does. So let me recap just to be clear: - I would sooner have Joe Kinnear nowhere near NUFC. He is a buffoon. Appointing him is a bad idea and I've found it impossible to make sense of. - If he is here purely to stop Pardew and Carr's disagreements bringing the club to a grinding standstill rather than to function as a true Director of Football, that is the best case scenario under these circumstances, and it is just about possible that bringing in some token 3rd guy (though ideally not Kinnear) might be the easiest/best way to sort out the Pardew / Carr thing. Is that clear? There's no need to be patronising, I'm saying that everything I've read from you is excessively pro-Ashley and you trying to find any sense or justification in this appointment in an attempt to give him the benefit of the doubt just cements that. That clear? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Fucking sick of pre-season / next season already. Can't see us signing anyone worthwhile and convinced more disappointment to come, sucks to be a nufc fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 And actually.... thinking it over If there was a clash between Pardew and Carr then absolutely the best thing I could imagine would be a token figurehead to make sure Carr's talent is not wasted while Pardew is given an excuse to be less concerned with transfers. The only more direct way of doing it would be to make Graham Carr Director of Football, which he probably doesn't want anyway and which would just cause open warfare. It could be that bringing in some clod just to fulfill that role is the most efficient way of getting manager and scout to work together. Now all they have to do is lock Kinnear in a dark room and make sure he never speaks to anyone in the media ever again. You're definitely not determined to defend Ashley no matter what, yet you're on here defending the Kinnear appointment. I thought it was the first move of Ashley's that you couldn't in any way defend, but you've managed it pretty sharpish. You couldn't make it up. I've said time and time again that I think bringing in Kinnear is very daft indeed. What I did there was to try to make some sense of the rationale behind it, which I've so far failed to do, but in the light of this stuff about Pardew vs Carr, some new possibilities emerge and it's interesting to discuss them. The idea that he's there solely to act as a buffer and isn't actually here to run the football club is about the most positive spin you can put on it. It *could* be that bringing in some clod to fulfill that role is the most efficient way of getting manager and scout to work together - that doesn't translate to "right, I've decided that bringing Joe Kinnear in was the right decision". Does it. No. Again, you seem desperate to maintain your image of me as someone who will defend everything Ashley does. So let me recap just to be clear: - I would sooner have Joe Kinnear nowhere near NUFC. He is a buffoon. Appointing him is a bad idea and I've found it impossible to make sense of. - If he is here purely to stop Pardew and Carr's disagreements bringing the club to a grinding standstill rather than to function as a true Director of Football, that is the best case scenario under these circumstances, and it is just about possible that bringing in some token 3rd guy (though ideally not Kinnear) might be the easiest/best way to sort out the Pardew / Carr thing. Is that clear? There's no need to be patronising, I'm saying that everything I've read from you is excessively pro-Ashley and you trying to find any sense or justification in this appointment in an attempt to give him the benefit of the doubt just cements that. That clear? I wasn't dressing you down but your openly mocking my post kind of means I don't care if you feel a bit patronised. I meant literally, "Is that clear?" As in "do you understand what I'm trying to say this time?" Because you get the wrong end of the stick (with me) quite a lot and it gets exasperating. Trying to understand what the hell Ashley is playing at, trying to second-guess his motivation and work out what kind of sense, if any, Kinnear's arrival makes, is not a pro-Ashley thing to do, sorry. It's a concerned, inquisitive, pro-NUFC thing to do. Particularly in the context of me saying what a terrible decision I thought it was, which I've said quite a few times now. How in the hell do you read all that and see nothing but a defence of Mike Ashley?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Meh, can't be arsed whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 No, you don't strike me as someone who likes to consider other viewpoints. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Moody Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 popcorn gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I had this conversation on Facebook for months on end, I'm not doing it again. I'm fine having debates on any number of topics on here, I'm just saying I'm not interested in having this one, with you, again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Columbo's p*ssed up mentally deranged cousin. "Just...one more f***ing thing, you c***." :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Eh? We had a totally different conversation on Facebook, about transfer policy in the main, if I recall (and yes, I was fairly pro-Ashley on that one because I think our transfer policy has been spot on). You thought the club was going to shit because we wouldn't invest, I thought our being cautious about investment was a good sign. This is about JFK coming back though - a completely different subject - and on that score I'm not pro-Ashley at all. It's weird that you're bleeding these things together Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Shit, don't think I could handle talking about NUFC on Facebook as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 IF the reason for Kinnear being brought in is, as suggested by recent media reports, disagreement between Carr and Pardew about the quality of players brought in on Carr's recommendation AND he wouldn't be able to judge with his own eyes who was right AND he wanted somebody's qualified opinion on the matter AND the only footballing person he trusts is Kinnear THEN why not discuss the topic over a beer in their local watering hole? Why oh why give Kinnear a 3 year deal as DoF. Makes no sense at all this "theory"... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slippery Sam Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 IF the reason for Kinnear being brought in is, as suggested by recent media reports, disagreement between Carr and Pardew about the quality of players brought in on Carr's recommendation AND he wouldn't be able to judge with his own eyes who was right AND he wanted somebody's qualified opinion on the matter AND the only footballing person he trusts is Kinnear THEN why not discuss the topic over a beer in their local watering hole? Why oh why give Kinnear a 3 year deal as DoF. Makes no sense at all this "theory"... It does sound like Parsnip has whinged and whinged at the end of season meeting about player abilities. Ashley has fallen for his patter so wants this fuckwit Kinear to come in and run the rule. Basically Pardew has blamed everyone but himself for last season and Ashley has bought it, rather than give him the bullet [which he should have, imo] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 IF the reason for Kinnear being brought in is, as suggested by recent media reports, disagreement between Carr and Pardew about the quality of players brought in on Carr's recommendation AND he wouldn't be able to judge with his own eyes who was right AND he wanted somebody's qualified opinion on the matter AND the only footballing person he trusts is Kinnear THEN why not discuss the topic over a beer in their local watering hole? Why oh why give Kinnear a 3 year deal as DoF. Makes no sense at all this "theory"... It does sound like Parsnip has whinged and whinged at the end of season meeting about player abilities. Ashley has fallen for his patter so wants this fuckwit Kinear to come in and run the rule. Basically Pardew has blamed everyone but himself for last season and Ashley has bought it, rather than give him the bullet [which he should have, imo] Fuck me. 'Ok, Alan, you're absolutely right. Your players are shit and everyone else is to blame. I'll give you a helping hand next season, and I'll do that by marginalising your mate so that he resigns and - here's the bit you'll love - I'll appoint Joe Kinnear as your Director of Football. Magic.' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 IF the reason for Kinnear being brought in is, as suggested by recent media reports, disagreement between Carr and Pardew about the quality of players brought in on Carr's recommendation AND he wouldn't be able to judge with his own eyes who was right AND he wanted somebody's qualified opinion on the matter AND the only footballing person he trusts is Kinnear THEN why not discuss the topic over a beer in their local watering hole? Why oh why give Kinnear a 3 year deal as DoF. Makes no sense at all this "theory"... It does sound like Parsnip has whinged and whinged at the end of season meeting about player abilities. Ashley has fallen for his patter so wants this fuckwit Kinear to come in and run the rule. Basically Pardew has blamed everyone but himself for last season and Ashley has bought it, rather than give him the bullet [which he should have, imo] f*** me. 'Ok, Alan, you're absolutely right. Your players are s*** and everyone else is to blame. I'll give you a helping hand next season, and I'll do that by marginalising your mate so that he resigns and - here's the bit you'll love - I'll appoint Joe Kinnear as your Director of Football. Magic.' Pardew: "Consider me well and truely delighted to be working with a proper football man" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 IF the reason for Kinnear being brought in is, as suggested by recent media reports, disagreement between Carr and Pardew about the quality of players brought in on Carr's recommendation AND he wouldn't be able to judge with his own eyes who was right AND he wanted somebody's qualified opinion on the matter AND the only footballing person he trusts is Kinnear THEN why not discuss the topic over a beer in their local watering hole? Why oh why give Kinnear a 3 year deal as DoF. Makes no sense at all this "theory"... It does sound like Parsnip has whinged and whinged at the end of season meeting about player abilities. Ashley has fallen for his patter so wants this fuckwit Kinear to come in and run the rule. Basically Pardew has blamed everyone but himself for last season and Ashley has bought it, rather than give him the bullet [which he should have, imo] Why would it take Kinnear 3 years to run the rule over our players, and why should he have a formal executive role at NUFC to do this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 IF the reason for Kinnear being brought in is, as suggested by recent media reports, disagreement between Carr and Pardew about the quality of players brought in on Carr's recommendation AND he wouldn't be able to judge with his own eyes who was right AND he wanted somebody's qualified opinion on the matter AND the only footballing person he trusts is Kinnear THEN why not discuss the topic over a beer in their local watering hole? Why oh why give Kinnear a 3 year deal as DoF. Makes no sense at all this "theory"... It does sound like Parsnip has whinged and whinged at the end of season meeting about player abilities. Ashley has fallen for his patter so wants this fuckwit Kinear to come in and run the rule. Basically Pardew has blamed everyone but himself for last season and Ashley has bought it, rather than give him the bullet [which he should have, imo] Why would it take Kinnear 3 years to run the rule over our players, and why should he have a formal executive role at NUFC to do this? sobering up time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Why would it take Kinnear 3 years to run the rule over our players, and why should he have a formal executive role at NUFC to do this? It'll take him 3 bastard years to get his point over because the senile old bastard will not know who he's talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I can see why you'd want someone on a contract and available on a permanent basis, even if they were just a mediator / figurehead / ornament. Ideally it'd be someone calm, intelligent, diplomatic, articulate and wedded to progressive footballing ideas though wouldn't it. Meanwhile http://www.football365.com/news/21554/8786502/Carr-Stays please stay Graham please please please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henke Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Well, here we are 5 days later. The dust has settled and most of us have calmed down. But this appointment still makes no sense at all. You'd have to be an absolute fucking clown to hire Joe Kinnear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I can see why you'd want someone on a contract and available on a permanent basis, even if they were just a mediator / figurehead / ornament. Ideally it'd be someone calm, intelligent, diplomatic, articulate and wedded to progressive footballing ideas though wouldn't it. Meanwhile http://www.football365.com/news/21554/8786502/Carr-Stays please stay Graham please please please Aye, because there was every chance another club would have poached Ashley's advisor if we didn't tie him down.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Ha More that you'd just want them to be available 24/7 if some daft argument kicks off, and not to go off and work for someone else if you're going through a tough patch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexthegreat Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Attempting to find some rationale and reason for optimism: Firstly, it appears Ashley genuinely does rate Kinnear. He managed 20 points from 18 games when he was here, and we went down with 34 from 38. Those stats hardly tell the whole story but they evidently mean something to Ashley, and Kinnear seems a likeable bloke to some who have got to know him, even if his public persona is a complete car crash. It seems that Pardew and Carr have been at loggerheads over transfers, with Pardew claiming that Carr’s signings aren’t good enough. This appears to be a ludicrous stance from Pardew – there are always going to be one or two duds, and of the ones who cost serious money there aren’t many who stand out as complete no hopers. When you consider he was widely reported to want Danny Graham in January, it doesn’t look like Pardew has a leg to stand on. But when you look at our squad the thing that stands out for me is the complete lack of Premier League experience. I think there is only Coloccini, Jonas, Shola, and Taylor who have clocked up 100 Premier League matches, and two of those simply aren’t very good. It’s a state of affairs that could never materialise at a club like Man United. At the back Debuchy has given away 2 pens and been sent off once in 14 matches, Mbwia is following in the footsteps of Luiz and Coloccini in ending up in some bizarre positions on the field, and Santon and Haideira have a fair bit still to learn. I think that given time we will have a very good defensive unit, but if our first choice pairing of Colo and Taylor were to get injured early in the season, I think it could be catastrophic. It’s a similar story throughout the team, although I’m less optimistic about the players further forward. I don’t think there’s been much wrong with Carr’s signings so far, but if he thinks the way forward is to continue looking for players with no experience of football in this country, then I can see Pardew’s point. The first thing Kinnear has done is say that he doesn’t want Douglas. I think I agree that yet another defender who may well need time to adjust isn’t what we need at this time. Perhaps Kinnear wasn’t making it up when Pardew said he was pleased he was here. Ashley must realise that there is no way Kinnear is able to run a football club day to day, he simply must. Surely he is only here as someone Ashley trusts to act as a referee between Pardew and Carr. I think what we really need to hope for this season is that we can keep a spine of: Krul - Colo – Taylor - Cabaye – Sissokho – Cisse in place (perhaps with another good striker). If we can get those players on the field 10 times in a row at the start of the season then I think we will have few serious problems. Beyond that we have some talented players, but for one reason or another, very few have shown they can produce regularly in this league. If the spine of the side cant get on the field, then we really could look a leaderless outfit that concedes loads of goals and doesn’t score many. I think that of more importance to us than the personalities off the pitch, and I hope we do get some experienced Premiership players into the club. Hopefully if we get a good start we can keep the whole show on the road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henke Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I honestly think that Ashley bumped into Kinnear in a boozer darn sahf, Ashley had beeing drinking premium strength beer all day and taking pity on Kinnear he offered him some sort of consultant position. On about ten bob a week. Clearly Kinnear has woken up last Sunday morning and got straight on the blower to SSN telling them about his new role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 nobody attacked alexthegreat for being an Ashley supporter yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh74 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 A kna its sh**e but let's just give the bloke a chance,he lost his only son to the big 'c' 2 years ago FFS. For all of you like me who's got kids just think about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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