TRon Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 6 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: Can't help but chirp on this one like. Technically it's 2-0 VAR. Romantically it might be a 2-0 for anti-VAR though if you both hate the Willock decision and are willing to live with decisions like the Abraham one. Last night is the type of decision (along with the others) that imo a few days ago wasn't being considered as a regular occurrence in the pre-VAR days by the people who are vehemently anti-VAR. The Willock one is an extremely unlucky, some might say pedantic decision, but ultimately it's still been called correctly. I still haven't seen an angle which has convinced me the Willock decision was correct tbh. It looks like the no 37 shirt player's foot is playing him onside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 @Kid Icarus respect the "honestly I cba with this today" Like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cf Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 39 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: The Willock one is an extremely unlucky, some might say pedantic decision, but ultimately it's still been called correctly. Whilst technically by the rules it might be correct it's still a fundamental shift in how the rule is actually applied and on the results of games. People mention "buffers" for VAR but in reality that buffer has always existed in real life. Humans in real time can't see this type of microscopic offside and so 90% of the time won't flag for it. I don't think a buffer works for VAR itself. If we have decided that re-refereeing games with video replays is the way we want to go then I don't see any justification for not making the correct decision. "Oh, it's within 5cm so fuck it give it or don't who cares" isn't going to cut it. Ultimately in terms of offside VAR is an advantage to defenders and a disadvantage to attackers compared to how the game used to be. I assume most football fans would be against that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 28 minutes ago, Cf said: Whilst technically by the rules it might be correct it's still a fundamental shift in how the rule is actually applied and on the results of games. People mention "buffers" for VAR but in reality that buffer has always existed in real life. Humans in real time can't see this type of microscopic offside and so 90% of the time won't flag for it. I don't think a buffer works for VAR itself. If we have decided that re-refereeing games with video replays is the way we want to go then I don't see any justification for not making the correct decision. "Oh, it's within 5cm so fuck it give it or don't who cares" isn't going to cut it. Ultimately in terms of offside VAR is an advantage to defenders and a disadvantage to attackers compared to how the game used to be. I assume most football fans would be against that. I don't see this personally. I think it's more of an extension of how the rule was already trying to be applied rather than a shift. Pre-VAR, officials were still aspiring to the same microscopic levels of perfection on these things that VAR has, rather than the whole original intention of offside thing where it was about whether an advantage was gained. The buffer exists because of the human eye element, like you say, but I think crucially that's only true in an idealised pre-VAR world where obvious mistakes outside of that buffer weren't made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 It was mega when our goals went in that we knew they were goals and we didn’t have to wait for them to analyse the micro minutia of each player who was tussling in the box before the ball went in the net etc etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki679 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 13 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: It was mega when our goals went in that we knew they were goals and we didn’t have to wait for them to analyse the micro minutia of each player who was tussling in the box before the ball went in the net etc etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I like the thought of it. Look forward to hear how it went. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) The humble pie that gets eaten when teams play with the lowest bloc you've ever seen in your life and VAR is still used at a microscopic level will be gigantic like. Edited March 2 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 The inverted pyramid could have been more succinct with this, but I agree with everything he's said here https://jonawils.substack.com/p/why-the-wenger-law-is-a-nonsense Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 It’s absolutely nonsense. It’s definitely going to encourage the deepest blocks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Luque Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 12 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: It’s absolutely nonsense. It’s definitely going to encourage the deepest blocks A new dawn for the #10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) I'm looking forward to the return of the Henry/Bellamy style start wide, bend their run between the CBs and away. Never see it now because the offside law is a farce. Edited March 2 by Optimistic Nut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 38 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said: I'm looking forward to the return of the Henry/Bellamy style start wide, bend their run between the CBs and away. Never see it now because the offside law is a farce. Joelinton does this all the time Weve scored from it at least 3-5 times over the last few years. Schar to big Joe. Not always Joe the goalscorer but from that move. Even Harry Kane scores a bag of those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDog Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) Interesting for sure. I suppose then VAR would be trying to figure out if a guys heel was past the last defender. Just make it the clear and obvious rule and do not allow slow motion or still images. Watch it twice normal speed and if you are not certain it's onside. Edited March 2 by McDog Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Don’t like Wenger’s offside law, too much of an advantage and how is the Linesman supposed to have any idea in a crowded box? They’ll just have to let VAR decide every time and, god knows how you draw lines with the last defender and the last part of the attacker’s body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) Let's see how the likes of Dias try shady bollocks like shoving Burn offside the other week, knowing if he's not pushed him far enough he might just gift a goal. Let's see defences actually think about offsides and it becoming an art form again, rather than the absolute lottery it is these days. I don't know why people think defences are suddenly going to stop the high lines, it's going to be the same for both. If it does go that way and we get to see flair players who can take on a few defenders with quick feet, or can pick an inch perfect pass again with creativity, rather than just who runs hardest and fastest, then bring it fucking on. Edited March 2 by Optimistic Nut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 It's the natural response to a situation where playing the offside trap will be nigh on impossible and so you'll want to deny your opponent any space in behind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Optimistic Nut said: Never see it now because the offside law is a farce. What's changed to make the offside law a farce now and not previously? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 4 minutes ago, joeyt said: What's changed to make the offside law a farce now and not previously? Done this to death but the "guideline" and "interpretation" was always daylight. Watch any match up to about 2010 and when they'd show a replay of a potential offside, unless there was daylight, everyone was pretty much happy with it. All this law change is doing is going back to that, but in a VAR world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Offside law has been fine for decades but bringing in technology is the thing that's made it worse not the law itself The Wenger rule will literally just move the technology inspection and will still delay the game as much as it is now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDog Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 11 minutes ago, joeyt said: Offside law has been fine for decades but bringing in technology is the thing that's made it worse not the law itself The Wenger rule will literally just move the technology inspection and will still delay the game as much as it is now Right, which is why I keep saying make the standard clear and obvious and do not feed VAR any slow motion or stills. Check it twice and real speed and if you have any doubt it's onside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) Thought they’d decided against introducing the Wenger rule? Hope they do bring it in. Like all things in life. Try it and see what the effects are after a season or two. IMO as someone who hates the current method I think it’ll lead to less frustration. As it stands it seems a laborious process to allow 9/10 goals whereas this will be a laborious process to disallow 1/10 goals. Defend too deep will hopefully lead a return back to 25 yard shooting. Edited March 2 by LFEE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I'm fine with trying this. Don't think it'll help with VAR tedium at all, but it brings offside clearer to what I personally would prefer the law be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) Id like to consider: For the attacker, only torso can be offside For the defender, any part (apart from arm) can play onside (ie as now) I think the daylight is probably too favourable to attacker, that example above looks offside to me. I think my suggestion would possibly get it closer to the spirit of the rule, how it feels when you’re playing. Would need to see it though. Edited March 2 by Superior Acuña Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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