The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Eric ten Hag Sacked

[The College Dropout]

I don’t have concrete evidence or proof.  But there is a lack of thought and application to the managerial approach of 99% of English managers.  
 

There’s not been a genuine world class English manager in my lifetime. There’s something deep rooted in the English footballing culture that is not curious about innovating ANYTHING about the game on the pitch.
 

Direct opposition to Italy where it seems like every decade a manager or team popularises something that changes football management in some aspect. 
 

Call it laziness, lack of intellectual curiosity it’s something.  I don’t even think it’s just tactically - it’s every aspect.  

[brummie]

14 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

 

Yes, Gerrard and Lampard work hard. I don't think they have the managerial acumen at the highest level, but I also don't think they have the humility and commitment to the craft which is needed to be successful at the highest level. There are different layers of working hard which I highly doubt they have. There is a huge chasm between working harder than us and spending every waking minute obsessing about how to improve by 0.0001%. 

 

I would be dazed if Gerrard or Lampard spent their time away from management working alongside coaches in AZ Alkmaar or Rotterdam, learning more about fitness management, attacking patterns, etc. 

 

Absolutely this (btw Pako Ayesteran is Emery's number 2).

 

According to our players, Gerrard did literally none of the training, Beale did it all. 

 

As for detail, I read the other day Emery has got the club to agree to build an annexe to the training ground so players can stay there overnight if needed. That's his level of detailed commitment.

 

Imagine Gerrard's reaction to a suggestion like that.

[Sempiternal]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I don’t have concrete evidence or proof.  But there is a lack of thought and application to the managerial approach of 99% of English managers.  
 

There’s not been a genuine world class English manager in my lifetime. There’s something deep rooted in the English footballing culture that is not curious about innovating ANYTHING about the game on the pitch.
 

Direct opposition to Italy where it seems like every decade a manager or team popularises something that changes football management in some aspect. 
 

Call it laziness, lack of intellectual curiosity it’s something.  I don’t even think it’s just tactically - it’s every aspect.  

Completely agree, I think it’s cultural.

[brummie]

I think English football culture is actually extremely innovative - only it gets expressed by taking the best coaches from abroad and bringing them here.

[The College Dropout]

When you listen to English footballers talk about managers - even the elite ones - it’s nearly always about man management. 
 

Gerrard and Carragher don’t have many nice things to say about Rafa because Rafa didn’t massage their ego’s. Lampard gushes about Carlo because he’s the master man manager. Carlo is a Don of course but it shows what they value most from a coach and what their takeaways are. 

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, brummie said:

I think English football culture is actually extremely innovative - only it gets expressed by taking the best coaches from abroad and bringing them here.

That’s just money. And the owners are foreign. 
 

I mean the actual culture of English ‘footballing men’. I think the Brighton owner is innovative in his approach to footballing administration and ownership.  

[KaKa]

28 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

Yes, Gerrard and Lampard work hard. I don't think they have the managerial acumen at the highest level, but I also don't think they have the humility and commitment to the craft which is needed to be successful at the highest level. There are different layers of working hard which I highly doubt they have. There is a huge chasm between working harder than us and spending every waking minute obsessing about how to improve by 0.0001%. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, brummie said:

 

The difference is you get a lot of British managers who just are not capable mentally of doing that, because their playing days were all in an era where it was belt, braces and bluster and nothing more. Or there are those such as Gerrard or Lampard, who played all their careers in winning teams and seem to think that turning themselves into top managers is just a matter of adopting the personal language and habits of this manager or the other, whilst some other sap does the coaching for you. 

.

 

Great posts.

 

I think the points above are pretty much the main points that nail this whole thing.

 

It really is a damned shame as they must both have so much access to go and spend some time at various clubs to learn and pick the brains of some top managers.

 

To see what the likes of Kompany and Xabi Alonso are doing in comparison is pretty embarrassing.

[The College Dropout]

27 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

 

Great posts.

 

I think the points above are pretty much the main points that nail this whole thing.

 

It really is a damned shame as they must both have so much access to go and spend some time at various clubs to learn and pick the brains of some top managers.

 

To see what the likes of Kompany and Xabi Alonso are doing in comparison is pretty embarrassing.

I think it’s much deeper than that. They would need to change their entire perspective on football. 

[Sempiternal]

Carrick is possibly going to be the exception. Took a less glamorous job, seems a pretty switched in guy, open to new stuff 

[rgk_lfc]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

I don’t have concrete evidence or proof.  But there is a lack of thought and application to the managerial approach of 99% of English managers.  
 

There’s not been a genuine world class English manager in my lifetime. There’s something deep rooted in the English footballing culture that is not curious about innovating ANYTHING about the game on the pitch.
 

Direct opposition to Italy where it seems like every decade a manager or team popularises something that changes football management in some aspect. 
 

Call it laziness, lack of intellectual curiosity it’s something.  I don’t even think it’s just tactically - it’s every aspect.  

 

One very basic thing we can look for is how many of the PFM's are multi-lingual. Because language and communication are key to managing a diverse squad.

 

I know their stock is low, but Rodgers can speak fluently in Spanish, French, and English. Potter can speak multiple European languages. I can't talk about Howe, but given his obsession with Spanish football tactics and training methods, I would be surprised if he cannot speak Spanish at a basic. Not surprised the most progressive British coaches are multi-lingual.

 

Most of the great European coaches can speak around four languages. I know there are some advantages as some of the mainland languages are related and easier to pick up if you know one. But still. For example, Pep and Xabi Alonso can speak Spanish, Italian, German, and English. And they put effort into being fluent in German before they went to Germany. Alonso was answering questions in English at 21 at press conferences which he picked up in a month or two. 

 

What does it have to do with football coaching? It indicates how much they value the communication of ideas and how much effort they are willing to put in.

 

In comparison, most of the PFMs can barely speak English. If you take a college-level English essay assignment and hand it to several managers, I am sure Mourinho, Rafa, and Ancelotti will turn in a significantly more articulate English essay than Gerrard and Lampard. I bet "Good ebening" Emery turns in a better essay than PFMs. 

 

I know some of you will retort by saying that Pardew can speak Spanish. But I am sure he is as obnoxious in Spanish as in English. 

[Sempiternal]

2 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

One very basic thing we can look for is how many of the PFM's are multi-lingual. Because language and communication are key to managing a diverse squad.

 

I know their stock is low, but Rodgers can speak fluently in Spanish, French, and English. Potter can speak multiple European languages. I can't talk about Howe, but given his obsession with Spanish football tactics and training methods, I would be surprised if he cannot speak Spanish at a basic. Not surprised the most progressive British coaches are multi-lingual.

 

Most of the great European coaches can speak around four languages. I know there are some advantages as some of the mainland languages are related and easier to pick up if you know one. But still. For example, Pep and Xabi Alonso can speak Spanish, Italian, German, and English. And they put effort into being fluent in German before they went to Germany. Alonso was answering questions in English at 21 at press conferences which he picked up in a month or two. 

 

What does it have to do with football coaching? It indicates how much they value the communication of ideas and how much effort they are willing to put in.

 

In comparison, most of the PFMs can barely speak English. If you take a college-level English essay assignment and hand it to several managers, I am sure Mourinho, Rafa, and Ancelotti will turn in a significantly more articulate English essay than Gerrard and Lampard. I bet "Good ebening" Emery turns in a better essay than PFMs. 

 

I know some of you will retort by saying that Pardew can speak Spanish. But I am sure he is as obnoxious in Spanish as in English. 

 
I genuinely did not know Pardew spoke Spanish. I agree with you though. Even on a basic level learning languages demonstrates your are open to expanding your skills, no

matter what that’s a net positive 

[rgk_lfc]

6 minutes ago, Sempiternal said:

 
I genuinely did not know Pardew spoke Spanish. I agree with you though. Even on a basic level learning languages demonstrates your are open to expanding your skills, no

matter what that’s a net positive 

 

Well, Pardew claimed he did as he "helped" Mascherano and Tevez settle in London through his knowledge of Spanish. The fact that they couldn't wait to get away from him, suggests otherwise, or at least he was as bad at Spanish communication as at English. 

[Rich]

21 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

Well, Pardew claimed he did as he "helped" Mascherano and Tevez settle in London through his knowledge of Spanish. The fact that they couldn't wait to get away from him, suggests otherwise, or at least he was as bad at Spanish communication as at English. 

 

Of course he did.

[joeyt]

25 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

Well, Pardew claimed he did as he "helped" Mascherano and Tevez settle in London through his knowledge of Spanish. The fact that they couldn't wait to get away from him, suggests otherwise, or at least he was as bad at Spanish communication as at English. 

 

If it went beyond "Dos cervezas por favor" I'd be shocked

[gbandit]

Donde esta el clunge 

[joeyt]

The King of communicating in a different language

 

[rgk_lfc]

8 minutes ago, Rich said:

 

Of course he did.

 

Alan Pardew has been brushing up on his Spanish as West Ham prepare for their first big European jaunt for seven years.

And in a bid to make new Argentinian signings Javier Mascherano and Carlos Tevez feel at home, Pardew has set his staff a Spanish test for the end of this week.

'I have been speaking Spanish this week,' Pardew revealed proudly.

'It all went down well with the lads and all the staff have a little test on a few football terms!'

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/pardew-sets-spanish-test-2313362

 

 

[brummie]

I bet he knew the Spanish for “what time’s your husband home?” too. 

[Pata]

Pep has no need to innovate while coaching the best team in the world but he suddenly decided that fullbacks are not needed anymore and started to play four centrebacks, moving one of them to midfield when in possession of the ball. And Cancelo had been instrumental to them in previous seasons. I know he has a habit of tinkering too much but it just boggles my mind. As we are piling on them, would Lampard or Gerrard find it necessary to come up with new formations while coaching the best team in the world?

 

Maybe he knows they are so much better than anyone else that he tries to lower the variance on set pieces against them by having four CBs defending them, who knows. 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Pata

[The College Dropout]

23 minutes ago, Pata said:

Pep has no need to innovate while coaching the best team in the world but he suddenly decided that fullbacks are not needed anymore and started to play four centrebacks, moving one of them to midfield when in possession of the ball. And Cancelo had been instrumental to them in previous seasons. I know he has a habit of tinkering too much but it just boggles my mind. As we are piling on them, would Lampard or Gerrard find it necessary to come up with new formations while coaching the best team in the world?

 

Maybe he knows they are so much better than anyone else that he tries to lower the variance on set pieces against them by having four CBs defending them, who knows. 

 

 

 

I think he just fell out with Cancelo and no other fullback can play that role well and Stones is the next up. And then with a pure 9 they don’t control the possession as well because they have 1 less player contributing to keeping the ball so they need more players that are actually good at defending.  And lastly I think Pep considers Ake and Akanji the most ‘hungry’ of his players. City keep winning but the personnel does evolve as par for the course. 

[Pata]

https://theathletic.com/4395427/2023/04/11/pep-guardiola-tactical-evolution/

 

Just read this amazing article and you are probably spot on. Didn't realise they had conceded more than usual playing with a pure 9 and also not on pace to score as many as they usually do, same happened when Lewa had his best season in Bayern under Pep. Haaland just has that x-factor for CL where he can be unstoppable especially when he has all that talent playing the throughballs, even if as a whole they are worse team with him in the lineup.

[Dr Venkman]

@Bimpy474’s quiet 

[toon25]

2 hours ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

One very basic thing we can look for is how many of the PFM's are multi-lingual. Because language and communication are key to managing a diverse squad.

 

I know their stock is low, but Rodgers can speak fluently in Spanish, French, and English. Potter can speak multiple European languages. I can't talk about Howe, but given his obsession with Spanish football tactics and training methods, I would be surprised if he cannot speak Spanish at a basic. Not surprised the most progressive British coaches are multi-lingual.

 

Most of the great European coaches can speak around four languages. I know there are some advantages as some of the mainland languages are related and easier to pick up if you know one. But still. For example, Pep and Xabi Alonso can speak Spanish, Italian, German, and English. And they put effort into being fluent in German before they went to Germany. Alonso was answering questions in English at 21 at press conferences which he picked up in a month or two. 

 

What does it have to do with football coaching? It indicates how much they value the communication of ideas and how much effort they are willing to put in.

 

In comparison, most of the PFMs can barely speak English. If you take a college-level English essay assignment and hand it to several managers, I am sure Mourinho, Rafa, and Ancelotti will turn in a significantly more articulate English essay than Gerrard and Lampard. I bet "Good ebening" Emery turns in a better essay than PFMs. 

 

I know some of you will retort by saying that Pardew can speak Spanish. But I am sure he is as obnoxious in Spanish as in English. 

 

Excellent post!

 

There's only one person to ask @Alan Pardew

 

I can imagine his grasp of the language extends to "cuatro, cuatro, dos' or, if you're lucky, 'ir directo' 

[Rich]

1 hour ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

Alan Pardew has been brushing up on his Spanish as West Ham prepare for their first big European jaunt for seven years.

And in a bid to make new Argentinian signings Javier Mascherano and Carlos Tevez feel at home, Pardew has set his staff a Spanish test for the end of this week.

'I have been speaking Spanish this week,' Pardew revealed proudly.

'It all went down well with the lads and all the staff have a little test on a few football terms!'

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/pardew-sets-spanish-test-2313362

 

 

Was more meant as an eye roll at Pardew, not you.

 

Wasn’t doubting you at all, but that article is still appreciated Favourite bit:

 

“Pardew revealed proudly”

 

Fucking hell I hated him.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

I don’t have concrete evidence or proof.  But there is a lack of thought and application to the managerial approach of 99% of English managers.  
 

There’s not been a genuine world class English manager in my lifetime. There’s something deep rooted in the English footballing culture that is not curious about innovating ANYTHING about the game on the pitch.
 

Direct opposition to Italy where it seems like every decade a manager or team popularises something that changes football management in some aspect. 
 

Call it laziness, lack of intellectual curiosity it’s something.  I don’t even think it’s just tactically - it’s every aspect.  

 

In terms of club management there's only pretty much Howe and Potter who go against the grain.