The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Ivan Juric to Southampton

[Kid Icarus]

14 hours ago, The Bonk said:

You’re better than this, mate. 

Time will tell. I certainly think he's got more credibility in the bank than Lampard and Gerrard at this point. 

[gbandit]

13 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Time will tell. I certainly think he's got more credibility in the bank than Lampard and Gerrard at this point. 

Don’t think that’s in doubt but might be one of the lowest managerial bars going 

[brummie]

37 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

 

 

 

Palace's tactics against us at the weekend were awful.

 

The dirtiest bastards I've seen us play in a very long time - Doucoure got sent off for two yellows in a short period, both of which merited instant reds for me. Horrible one on Boubacar Kamara (out for a couple of weeks) and minutes later, goes over the ball on Callum Chambers. 

 

Genuinely like he wanted to get sent off.

[brummie]

My concern with the likes of Frank, Potter in the past and now de Zerbi is how much their achievements are down to them and their assistants, and therefore transferrable to another club, or how much do they actually reflect the fact that they are in a role at a club which is extremely well run, much deeper than just the coaching staff. Look also at Silva, disaster at Everton - a poorly run club all round - and excelling at a relatively well run club like Fulham.

 

So if you were take someone like Frank to Spurs, is he going to be able to be as successful there, with their set up, and the way they are run? What is there about Frank that will succeed where Conte has not?

 

If Frank then does go there, he finds himself without the all-pervasive support network of a very well run club, and exposed to the elevated expectations of a club which has a bit of a weird set of expectations.

 

A club with a marvellous, very large stadium, which has played in the CL a lot and generates a lot of cash, but then hasn't won anything at all for a long time now, has only ever won the league twice (and the last time was closer to the reign of Queen Victoria than today), and appears to have developed a bit of a crisis of identity (which isn't unusual with clubs going through the amount of change they have the last few years).

 

I am not having a go at Spurs here - I have nothing against Spurs at all* - just wondering aloud how much the success of some of these seemingly excellent managers is transferrable elsewhere, and whether the real problem is much deeper within the club.

 

 

 

* - well, I do actually, I fucking hate them, but that's not why I am saying this.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by brummie

[SteV]

7 minutes ago, brummie said:

My concern with the likes of Frank, Potter in the past and now de Zerbi is how much their achievements are down to them and their assistants, and therefore transferrable to another club, or how much do they actually reflect the fact that they are in a role at a club which is extremely well run, much deeper than just the coaching staff. Look also at Silva, disaster at Everton - a poorly run club all round - and excelling at a relatively well run club like Fulham.

 

So if you were take someone like Frank to Spurs, is he going to be able to be as successful there, with their set up, and the way they are run? What is there about Frank that will succeed where Conte has not?

 

If Frank then does go there, he finds himself without the all-pervasive support network of a very well run club, and exposed to the elevated expectations of a club which has a bit of a weird set of expectations.

 

A club with a marvellous, very large stadium, which has played in the CL a lot and generates a lot of cash, but then hasn't won anything at all for a long time now, has only ever won the league twice (and the last time was closer to the reign of Queen Victoria than today), and appears to have developed a bit of a crisis of identity (which isn't unusual with clubs going through the amount of change they have the last few years).

 

I am not having a go at Spurs here - I have nothing against Spurs at all* - just wondering aloud how much the success of some of these seemingly excellent managers is transferrable elsewhere, and whether the real problem is much deeper within the club.

 

 

 

* - well, I do actually, I fucking hate them, but that's not why I am saying this.

 

 

 

It’s a valid point. And probably one that is/was relevant to Howe.

 

But, in short, impossible to answer until said manager gets a gig with one of the big(ger) lads.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Spurs are a bit of a anomaly in the 'Big 6' in that their transfer policy leans more towards a project type manager than the rest do (perhaps Arsenal as well). Potter would have (will do) well at Spurs but will never achieve the same level at Chelsea as he did at Brighton - when putting the ambitions of the two clubs side by side.

 

Frank may also struggle at a Chelsea/Man U / Liverpool / City level due to the level of player he is dealing with and the different approach needed to get the most out of them compared to what he has at Brentford. I dare say he would also do a great job at Spurs and would definitely succeed at Villa or Us.

 

Longer than needed way of saying managing a 'big 6' club is a completely different job to the rest of the league

[Geogaddi]

Spurs got incredibly lucky getting one of the best strikers of all time for nothing, they would likely have been nowhere near the top 4 without him. They are a level below the big 6 for me, the other 5 all win trophies for a starters and are only one good season away from challenging for the title, 4th is pretty much the ceiling for Spurs really, they might finish higher than that if the others have a bad season but you just know they will never seriously challenge for the league or do anything of note.

[The College Dropout]

Spurs have been fantastically well-run imo. They just don't win trophies but in truth, they are the 6th place in terms of top 6 but they finish top 4 more often than not.

 

They haven't had a big hit in the transfer market for some time. But they had a great run from Modric, Berbatov, Bale, Kane & Son.

[The College Dropout]

24 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Spurs have been fantastically well-run imo. They just don't win trophies but in truth, they are the 6th place in terms of top 6 but they finish top 4 more often than not.

 

They haven't had a big hit in the transfer market for some time. But they had a great run from Modric, Berbatov, Bale, Kane & Son.

To add, 20-40 years ago. Spurs consistently finished 8th-12th in the league. Historically no bigger than us, Everton or Villa but they've jumped into an elite bracket over the last 20 years thanks to Levy.

 

They should have won a couple trophies tbf 

[SUPERTOON]

 

[Guest]

Mendieta or Boateng next?

[KaKa]

22 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

I think people are being far too harsh far too early with Parker. He has a lot to learn but I think he's possibly got something and he's young.

 

You're right about this, and I've said this from way back. His teams are cohesive and use the ball well. And he already has two promotions from the Championship.

 

He's just not at all good dealing with those above him at the club, and throws a strop when he isn't given the resources he wants. If he had just showed some patience and stuck it out with Bournemouth this season, he would have been in a great position right now with the new owner who has money to spend and has been forthcoming with it. 

 

People are just obsessed with the outfits he wears for some very strange reason, and go on about that all the time as if that has anything to do with his abilities as a manager.

 

[TRon]

20 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

You're right about this, and I've said this from way back. His teams are cohesive and use the ball well. And he already has two promotions from the Championship.

 

He's just not at all good dealing with those above him at the club, and throws a strop when he isn't given the resources he wants. If he had just showed some patience and stuck it out with Bournemouth this season, he would have been in a great position right now with the new owner who has money to spend and has been forthcoming with it. 

 

People are just obsessed with the outfits he wears for some very strange reason, and go on about that all the time as if that has anything to do with his abilities as a manager.

 

 

What happened to him at Fulham do you think? He had a decent set up there. I do actually agree that he's a level above Lampard and Gerrard, he always came across as a considerate coach for what that's worth. Beyond that I'm just going off him not really doing much at any of his clubs other than getting disenchanted after a season or so.

[joeyt]

32 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Mendieta or Boateng next?

 

Used to love Mendieta. Wonder if he still lives in Yarm

[The Bonk]

26 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

You're right about this, and I've said this from way back. His teams are cohesive and use the ball well. And he already has two promotions from the Championship.

 

He's just not at all good dealing with those above him at the club, and throws a strop when he isn't given the resources he wants. If he had just showed some patience and stuck it out with Bournemouth this season, he would have been in a great position right now with the new owner who has money to spend and has been forthcoming with it. 

 

People are just obsessed with the outfits he wears for some very strange reason, and go on about that all the time as if that has anything to do with his abilities as a manager.

 

 

He's failed spectacularly at Brugge, which you left out and has seemingly developed a heightened sense of self off of his work with Fulham and Bournemouth. Parker's pursuit of Barbour model status is unquestionable, but he's done nothing to earn any of the roles he was given. His managerial career has been handed to him rather than earned like a Potter or Howe. He's just less of a prick than Stevie G and Lamps. 

 

7 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Time will tell. I certainly think he's got more credibility in the bank than Lampard and Gerrard at this point. 

 

He's taken a mighty humbling the last 6 months. Will have to take a gig at a mid table Championship Club as the bigger ones down there wouldn't risk it with him. 

[KaKa]

1 hour ago, TRon said:

 

What happened to him at Fulham do you think? He had a decent set up there. I do actually agree that he's a level above Lampard and Gerrard, he always came across as a considerate coach for what that's worth. Beyond that I'm just going off him not really doing much at any of his clubs other than getting disenchanted after a season or so.

 

He quit over signings. Got annoyed at the resources he was given similar to Bournemouth.

[KaKa]

1 hour ago, The Bonk said:

 

He's failed spectacularly at Brugge, which you left out and has seemingly developed a heightened sense of self off of his work with Fulham and Bournemouth. Parker's pursuit of Barbour model status is unquestionable, but he's done nothing to earn any of the roles he was given. His managerial career has been handed to him rather than earned like a Potter or Howe. He's just less of a prick than Stevie G and Lamps. 

 

 

He's taken a mighty humbling the last 6 months. Will have to take a gig at a mid table Championship Club as the bigger ones down there wouldn't risk it with him. 

 

He was at Brugge for 5 mins. Was a goofy move to make mid season with players he would have not known as well, and with no opportunity to have any influence on shaping the squad.

 

I agree his attitude is not good as he is way too impatient that is for sure, and ultimately it will be his undoing as a manager unless he sorts it out. However, purely from watching his teams, I like a good bit of what I have seen.

 

When you say he has done nothing to earn the roles he has been given, what on Earth do you mean? He has the qualifications, and had a pretty high reputation in the game from his playing days. That gets you in the door at a lot of clubs. He started as a coach at Spurs under 19s before joining Fulham as a coach for the first team under Jokanovic and then Ranieri, and he took over as caretaker when both were sacked, before then becoming manager. He then brought them straight back up after they were relegated. He then fell out over signings at Fulham and left, and then joined Bournemouth as manager in the Championship and brought them straight up, before losing his cool and getting ditched again.

 

Why would you say he hasn't earned any of his roles? That's strange man.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by KaKa

[The Bonk]

41 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

He was at Brugge for 5 mins. Was a goofy move to make mid season with players he would have not known as well, and with no opportunity to have any influence on shaping the squad.

 

I agree his attitude is not good as he is way too impatient that is for sure, and ultimately it will be his undoing as a manager unless he sorts it out. However, purely from watching his teams, I like a good bit of what I have seen.

 

When you say he has done nothing to earn the roles he has been given, what on Earth do you mean? He has the qualifications, and had a pretty high reputation in the game from his playing days. That gets you in the door at a lot of clubs. He started as a coach at Spurs under 19s before joining Fulham as a coach for the first team under Jokanovic and then Ranieri, and he took over as caretaker when both were sacked, before then becoming manager. He then brought them straight back up after they were relegated. He then fell out over signings at Fulham and left, and then joined Bournemouth as manager in the Championship and brought them straight up, before losing his cool and getting ditched again.

 

Why would you say he hasn't earned any of his roles? That's strange man.

 

 

 

 

Fair enough, he's had some exposure and learning there, but it seems like a dramatic climb in a short span of time which has shown evidence in his dealing with off the pitch business. Howe and Potter wouldn't make the PR mistakes Parker has made, but they probably don't have the ego Parker does. As a figure head of those promotions he's gained notoriety, but how much was due to the coaching staffs, players he inherited? 

 

I think Brugge were idiotic in thinking Parker actually had the pedigree to push them on in Europe or domestically. I don't blame Parker for having a crack at the redemption arc. 

 

I also have a bias against Parker from his time here and thought he was overrated in what he brought on the pitch. For the most part, he was a model pro, played to the best of his ability.  Always felt like he was too good for us, but maybe that was the media. 

 

In short, I don't like him.   

 

 

[KaKa]

35 minutes ago, The Bonk said:

 

Fair enough, he's had some exposure and learning there, but it seems like a dramatic climb in a short span of time which has shown evidence in his dealing with off the pitch business. Howe and Potter wouldn't make the PR mistakes Parker has made, but they probably don't have the ego Parker does. As a figure head of those promotions he's gained notoriety, but how much was due to the coaching staffs, players he inherited? 

 

I think Brugge were idiotic in thinking Parker actually had the pedigree to push them on in Europe or domestically. I don't blame Parker for having a crack at the redemption arc. 

 

I also have a bias against Parker from his time here and thought he was overrated in what he brought on the pitch. For the most part, he was a model pro, played to the best of his ability.  Always felt like he was too good for us, but maybe that was the media. 

 

In short, I don't like him.   

 

 

 

Ah, I see where you're coming from now. That's fair.

 

Yeah, he just gets too worked up over stuff. I remember he started well here but towards the end he was getting some criticism over some of his play and took it to heart way too much and he ended up falling out completely with the fan base and leaving in a strop. It's a recurring theme with him.

 

He just needs to grow up to be honest. He has some talent as a manager, but as you said he is awful off the pitch, when dealing with the guys in the boardroom and that bit is absolutely crucial. Due to his impatience he's already wasted opportunities at two pretty decent clubs who would have supported him with resources eventually, and now both Silva and Gary O'Neill look like they will benefit instead.

[The Bonk]

16 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

Ah, I see where you're coming from now. That's fair.

 

Yeah, he just gets too worked up over stuff. I remember he started well here but towards the end he was getting some criticism over some of his play and took it to heart way too much and he ended up falling out completely with the fan base and leaving in a strop. It's a recurring theme with him.

 

He just needs to grow up to be honest. He has some talent as a manager, but as you said he is awful off the pitch, when dealing with the guys in the boardroom and that bit is absolutely crucial. Due to his impatience he's already wasted opportunities at two pretty decent clubs who would have supported him with resources eventually, and now both Silva and Gary O'Neill look like they will benefit instead.

 

I'm aligned with him having more about him than Gerrard or Lampard, though. If Parker checked his ego and spent some time developing under a heralded manager like Howe did, probably do wonders for his career. 

[joeyt]

Vieira sacked

[joeyt]

 

 

 

[The Butcher]

Good move imo.

[Guest]

On St Patrick’s day? That is shameful

[RodneyCisse]

Who’s decent and available?