The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Silva leaves Fulham

[Milburn]

9 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

I think you've covered two points here.

 

The very best managers usually have far more resources at their disposal. The more recent successful evolutions coming from the likes of Pep, Arteta and Klopp. It may be that Howe isn't capable of evolving, but if he is, it'll take him longer as he can't go out and throw huge wages at some of Europe's best players.

 

I disagree with the second point. Yes Howe has stuck with 4-3-3, but the 21/22, 22/23 and 24/25 sides were all successful, but tactically very different sides. I've gone on about it at length before so I won't bore everyone to tears.

I’d maybe understand that argument if Howe had spent £80m, not close to £800m.

 

Obviously he doesn’t have Pep-level resources, but let’s not pretend he’s operating on crumbs either.

 

And after spending that kind of money, ending the season with Dan Burn at left back and Joelinton on the wing while teams comfortably figure us out every week is exactly why people are questioning the “evolution”.

[duo]

 

[The Prophet]

5 minutes ago, Milburn said:

I’d maybe understand that argument if Howe had spent £80m, not close to £800m.

 

Obviously he doesn’t have Pep-level resources, but let’s not pretend he’s operating on crumbs either.

 

And after spending that kind of money, ending the season with Dan Burn at left back and Joelinton on the wing while teams comfortably figure us out every week is exactly why people are questioning the “evolution”.

 

I'm not pretending he's operating on crumbs, the point still stands.

[Milburn]

16 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

I'm not pretending he's operating on crumbs, the point still stands.

Not really.

 

The point only stands if Howe is still operating with some massive resource disadvantage relative to the level we expect to compete at. After close to £800m spent, that argument becomes a lot less convincing.

 

Just look at Unai Emery at Aston Villa. They’re in a Europa League final, still fighting for a Champions League place, and they’ve also had to deal with playing twice a week, which many people have used as a major excuse for Howe.

 

At some point the conversation has to move from “he needs more” to “what is he actually doing with what he already has?”

[andycap]

1 hour ago, duo said:

Limitations? He lost Huijsen,  Kerkez, Ouattara, Semenyo yet has still managed to potentially steer the club to Europe.  We lost one player and fell apart. 

Zabarnyi aswell. 

[The Prophet]

42 minutes ago, Milburn said:

Not really.

 

The point only stands if Howe is still operating with some massive resource disadvantage relative to the level we expect to compete at. After close to £800m spent, that argument becomes a lot less convincing.

 

Just look at Unai Emery at Aston Villa. They’re in a Europa League final, still fighting for a Champions League place, and they’ve also had to deal with playing twice a week, which many people have used as a major excuse for Howe.

 

At some point the conversation has to move from “he needs more” to “what is he actually doing with what he already has?”

 

We were discussing elite coaches evolving their sides.

 

City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea can spend pretty much unrestricted on fees and wages due to higher revenues and a conveyor belt of saleable talent. 

 

We've had one major spend in five transfer windows due to PSR. 

 

Any rebuild is going to be smoother and more straightforward when you're in the former camp.

 

Howe might not have maximised the resource available to him this season, but he's still comparatively limited in how much he can do.

 

 

Edited May 16 by The Prophet

[Cf]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

We were discussing elite coaches evolving their sides.

 

City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea can spend pretty much unrestricted on fees and wages due to higher revenues and a conveyor belt of saleable talent. 

 

We've had one major spend in five transfer windows due to PSR. 

 

Any rebuild is going to be smoother and more straightforward when you're in the former camp.

 

Howe might not have maximised the resource available to him this season, but he's still comparatively limited in how much he can do.

 

 

 

 

Save your breath

[Milburn]

16 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

We were discussing elite coaches evolving their sides.

 

City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea can spend pretty much unrestricted on fees and wages due to higher revenues and a conveyor belt of saleable talent. 

 

We've had one major spend in five transfer windows due to PSR. 

 

Any rebuild is going to be smoother and more straightforward when you're in the former camp.

 

Howe might not have maximised the resource available to him this season, but he's still comparatively limited in how much he can do.

 

 

 

I understand the PSR point, but that still doesn’t really explain why the football itself has become so stale and predictable.

 

Tactical flexibility, in-game management, adapting to opponents, using technical players properly, changing shape when things clearly aren’t working… those things don’t require another £200m.

 

I think that’s probably where we fundamentally disagree. You mainly see the limitations in the squad, while I increasingly see the manager as the main limitation. I’m absolutely convinced that Guardiola, Arteta, Klopp and, for that matter, Emery would all have got far more out of this squad this season than Howe has managed.

[r0cafella]

Kind of insane given Chelsea are a basketcase with a massively over rated squad that they managed to convince Alonso. 

[KaKa]

Worried Iraola will end up at Liverpool.

 

If that happens think they'll have a big turnaround next season, as his approach is far better suited to the players they have.

[r0cafella]

6 minutes ago, KaKa said:

Worried Iraola will end up at Liverpool.

 

If that happens think they'll have a big turnaround next season, as his approach is far better suited to the players they have.

At this point it's kinda mad they want to hang on to slot. 

[KaKa]

35 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

At this point it's kinda mad they want to hang on to slot. 

 

It's absolutely crazy, but was hoping they'd stick to it.

 

As it's getting quite toxic now, I think they're going to make a change once the season ends unfortunately.

[r0cafella]

3 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

It's absolutely crazy, but was hoping they'd stick to it.

 

As it's getting quite toxic now, I think they're going to make a change once the season ends unfortunately.

Yeah, I think we are reaching the point they have to ask. 

 

With Hughes and Edwards contract expiring next year and Edwards likely to leave I wouldn't at all be shocked to see Klopp return. 

[Disco]

Not sure Iraola mad ball works across multiple competitions but he seems a good lad.
 

Wouldn’t be averse to having him here regardless albeit ain’t going to happen and I’m fine with that.
 

Bournemouth aren’t a million miles away from what Howe had going on with our first CL qualification. Direct without being long ball, quick to spring on a counter, bastards to play against and low key dirty as fuck. 

 

If it scales to an entitled squad I’m not so sure.

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Disco said:

Not sure Iraola mad ball works across multiple competitions but he seems a good lad.
 

Wouldn’t be averse to having him here regardless albeit ain’t going to happen and I’m fine with that.
 

Bournemouth aren’t a million miles away from what Howe had going on with our first CL qualification. Direct without being long ball, quick to spring on a counter, bastards to play against and low key dirty as fuck. 

 

If it scales to an entitled squad I’m not so sure.

A lot of people feel the same I'm not sure honestly. I reckon Iraola is very smart and will manage his squad and his intensity accordingly. 

[Disco]

Just now, r0cafella said:

A lot of people feel the same I'm not sure honestly. I reckon Iraola is very smart and will manage his squad and his intensity accordingly. 

Aye I’m sure he’s got in him to change it up particularly with a higher calibre of player but the unknown is always a concern. He’s clearly found a way not to lose this season albeit they’re not exactly strong at the back and his ability to not let player sales or injuries impact performance shows a great level of coaching and buy in. 

 

If he stepped up it’d be the buy in aspect I’d worry about most but you never know. Ego is a strange thing in football. The way Liverpool play at the moment couldn’t be further away what he’s good at. 

[KaKa]

36 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

A lot of people feel the same I'm not sure honestly. I reckon Iraola is very smart and will manage his squad and his intensity accordingly. 

 

Yup. That style of play just needs a decent squad and a manager that isn't afraid to rotate his players and use the full squad.

 

He's done that this year at Bournemouth, who have put together a pretty decent squad with options at each position.

 

 

Edited May 17 by KaKa

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, Disco said:

Aye I’m sure he’s got in him to change it up particularly with a higher calibre of player but the unknown is always a concern. He’s clearly found a way not to lose this season albeit they’re not exactly strong at the back and his ability to not let player sales or injuries impact performance shows a great level of coaching and buy in. 

 

If he stepped up it’d be the buy in aspect I’d worry about most but you never know. Ego is a strange thing in football. The way Liverpool play at the moment couldn’t be further away what he’s good at. 

 

After what they've had this year with Slot trying to play so differently from Klopp and how badly it's gone, now would be the ideal time for someone to come in that returns more to that sort of style Klopp played.

 

I think the players and the crowd would all get behind it. Really hoping they don't look at Iraola at all personally. Have a bad feeling it would go really well.

[Disco]

13 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

After what they've had this year with Slot trying to play so differently from Klopp and how badly it's gone, now would be the ideal time for someone to come in that returns more to that sort of style Klopp played.

 

I think the players and the crowd would all get behind it. Really hoping they don't look at Iraola at all personally. Have a bad feeling it would go really well.

Agree but they’ve got so many players who can’t play that way now or anymore.

 

Konate (can’t remember if he signed a nee deal of not), Van Dijk, Mac Allister, Wirtz, arguably Szoboslai, Ekitike, Isak off the top of my head.
 

Then you’ve got Frimpong on top of that who can’t play as a non wing back it’d appear. Harvey Elliot coming back who falls into the first rung of players.’ I’m sure there’s more that I’ll have forgotten:

Of course a halfway ground might work but it’s a huge ask. If the players have fucked off Slot so quickly, which they clearly have, after winning the league I’d not be confident in them responding to a fairly low recognition manager. 

 

 

[r0cafella]

52 minutes ago, Disco said:

Aye I’m sure he’s got in him to change it up particularly with a higher calibre of player but the unknown is always a concern. He’s clearly found a way not to lose this season albeit they’re not exactly strong at the back and his ability to not let player sales or injuries impact performance shows a great level of coaching and buy in. 

 

If he stepped up it’d be the buy in aspect I’d worry about most but you never know. Ego is a strange thing in football. The way Liverpool play at the moment couldn’t be further away what he’s good at. 

What you've highlighted here is probably why I would take the punt on him tbh, of course it would be a gamble but no sure thing exists in our position anyway. 

 

That being said, Eddie still has credit in the bank with a lot of our fans so any change now could be detrimental to whoever comes in after him should we get itchy. 

[Ben]

6 hours ago, Lush Vlad said:

Far smaller budget and squad depth at Bournemouth, in fairness. They’ve sold plenty of big names and still carried on over-performing, too. 
 

I find them great to watch. Whilst also frustrating as fuck when we play them. 
 

I think he’d be great here. But it sounds like we’re rolling with Howe and he deserves time and patience. Even though I have my reservations about him turning it around. 

 

My only concern is the fact Howe keeps saying he doesn't want a big rebuild, its obvious its got to happen , hopefully hes just bluffing.

[Pixelphish]

CFC mouth piece suggesting Alonso has a manager JT/JD, not head coach.

 

 

[Mike]

5 hours ago, KaKa said:

Worried Iraola will end up at Liverpool.

 

Shit.

[Kid Icarus]

Love that statement coming from Salah when he's been absolute chod for ages.

[Menace]

And he's fucking off next month. Both club and player are absolutely perfect for each other.