The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Silva leaves Fulham

[KingArthur]

19 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

He's going to have much better players to work with, can't see that being an issue.

 

Not like his Bournemouth teams couldn't pass the ball and we're some sit back and counter attack team.

He has, but it really doesn't always work like that does it? 

Of course Bournemouth team could pass the ball, so does Howe's Newcastle. Do I see Howe being able to be a success at club like Liverpool? No I don't. For the same reason that Iraola.

I mean, they have kept the ball less than we have in the last 2 seasons, and we are bad at it. Iraola's teams create a lot of chances but the also concede a lot of chances. It is entertaining to watch, but playing 3 games a week with that intensity and risk taking, I don't see it being a success. But we will see, just my guess.

[Fak]

Palace going for Pierre Sage from Lens.

[lovejoy]

14 minutes ago, Fak said:

Palace going for Pierre Sage from Lens.

Liverpool spoke to him I think 

[robbo_11]

4 minutes ago, lovejoy said:

Liverpool spoke to him I think 

 

I think Fulham were also hoping he would replace Silva too.

[BrianSwan]

Iraola is lucky that Salah is going and they are trying to sign a young pacey guy in his place.

 

His teams play with the sum of their parts, high pressing, high stamina. 

[KaKa]

Lens were fun to watch this past season, and pushed PSG right to the end and won the cup.

 

More and more good managers coming into the league at teams people will tell you are "small clubs".

 

I really hope Eddie Howe gets it together this summer.

[KaKa]

1 hour ago, KingArthur said:

He has, but it really doesn't always work like that does it? 

Of course Bournemouth team could pass the ball, so does Howe's Newcastle. Do I see Howe being able to be a success at club like Liverpool? No I don't. For the same reason that Iraola.

I mean, they have kept the ball less than we have in the last 2 seasons, and we are bad at it. Iraola's teams create a lot of chances but the also concede a lot of chances. It is entertaining to watch, but playing 3 games a week with that intensity and risk taking, I don't see it being a success. But we will see, just my guess.

 

Personally, I would never compare Bournemouth's use of the ball and passing combinations and patterns to ours. They are miles better. Newcastle struggle to progress the ball up the pitch most games, unless the opposition completely sits off them, and then when they get to the final third it's just random, sloppy and indecisive play.

 

It's also not just down to possession stats because they are not trying to pass the ball side to side all game. Playing that goofy style does not mean you are automatically going to be better against low blocks. It's the reason Slot is gone after trying to implement more of that style this last season, having spent £450 million last summer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joeyt]

1 hour ago, Fak said:

Palace going for Pierre Sage from Lens.

 

He'll be Pierre Glasshouse in a few years time

[joeyt]

[Dr.Spaceman]

Marco Silva to Benfica has fallen through.

[KingArthur]

3 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

Personally, I would never compare Bournemouth's use of the ball and passing combinations and patterns to ours. They are miles better. Newcastle struggle to progress the ball up the pitch most games, unless the opposition completely sits off them, and then when they get to the final third it's just random, sloppy and indecisive play.

 

It's also not just down to possession stats because they are not trying to pass the ball side to side all game. Playing that goofy style does not mean you are automatically going to be better against low blocks. It's the reason Slot is gone after trying to implement more of that style this last season, having spent £450 million last summer.

 

 

This might be true 2025-26, but I think we passed the ball well enough when we ended up in UCL place the season before..

But the point in possession is, that whoever controls the ball controls the tempo of the game. Big teams have a lot of games during season, and they HAVE to keep the ball more than others, because otherwise it ends up in chaos football (see Newcastle), more running, more injuries and more points dropped. 

Slot clearly lost the dressing room, and big players have thrown the toys out. Their attacking play was very predictable and new signings didn't really fit the style of play at all.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 13:41 by KingArthur

[andycap]

That sage fellas teams tend to take a right stuffing. 😂 

[KaKa]

45 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

But the point in possession is, that whoever controls the ball controls the tempo of the game. Big teams have a lot of games during season, and they HAVE to keep the ball more than others, because otherwise it ends up in chaos football (see Newcastle), more running, more injuries and more points dropped. 

 

They don't have to do anything of the sort. Most of them have more possession because teams tend to sit deep against them in a very defensive shape and don't commit as many players forward. It's not some big team formula of playing in order to stop "chaos" football, or more running or more injuries.

 

That may be Pep's style and all of his minions, but Klopp didn't think like that, neither did Mourinho or countless other managers who all have different approaches to the game.

[astraguy]

any reason why man city still haven't confirmed who'll be the the manager/coach? 

[Kilcline]

1 minute ago, astraguy said:

any reason why man city still haven't confirmed who'll be the the manager/coach? 

Chelsea will be due compo if it's Maresca, I imagine they'll be working that out 

[Viana]

Iraola took a real risk leaving Bournemouth without having something lined up. If he ends up at Liverpool he can argue it's worked out just fine, but it does still surprise me. 

[KingArthur]

51 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

They don't have to do anything of the sort. Most of them have more possession because teams tend to sit deep against them in a very defensive shape and don't commit as many players forward. It's not some big team formula of playing in order to stop "chaos" football, or more running or more injuries.

 

That may be Pep's style and all of his minions, but Klopp didn't think like that, neither did Mourinho or countless other managers who all have different approaches to the game.

Ffs. That is the way pretty much every successful team plays, because holding the ball means controlling the game. I don't know how to make this more clear. 
Klopp had his time, but like I said, even his team could control the game. It was a lot of pressing but it was not end to end -football against small teams. 

Mourinho was successful ages ago with ultra defensive (like less than 10 league goals conceded) football and squad more expensive than anyone else's. In Madrid he had the best front 6 in the world most likely. Or second best. So who are these other "countless of other (successful) managers" who have played the game with great intensity and less than 50 % of the ball?

Like I said, Iraola can be successful with Liverpool if he adopts his game. Playing something like 60 games a season with that intensity just doesn't seem to work.
Funny that you are saying how shit Tonali's passing is, but then defending game style were shit passing doesn't matter, because it means games end up looking like basketball matches.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 15:23 by KingArthur

[Ben]

36 minutes ago, Viana said:

Iraola took a real risk leaving Bournemouth without having something lined up. If he ends up at Liverpool he can argue it's worked out just fine, but it does still surprise me. 

 

I think its obvious Liverpool tapped him up, probably months ago, its how they do business 

[KaKa]

28 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

Ffs. That is the way pretty much every successful team plays, because holding the ball means controlling the game. I don't know how to make this more clear. 
Klopp had his time, but like I said, even his team could control the game. It was a lot of pressing but it was not end to end -football against small teams. 

Mourinho was successful ages ago with ultra defensive (like less than 10 league goals conceded) football and squad more expensive than anyone else's. In Madrid he had the best front 6 in the world most likely. Or second best. So who are these other "countless of other (successful) managers" who have played the game with great intensity and less than 50 % of the ball?

Like I said, Iraola can be successful with Liverpool if he adopts his game. Playing something like 60 games a season with that intensity just doesn't seem to work.

Funny that you are saying how shit Tonali's passing is, but then defending game style were shit passing doesn't matter, because it means games end up looking like basketball matches.

 

 

 

 

 

For some reason you seem to think playing high intensity football means shit passing and not controlling games, because Newcastle have this issue. The problem is with the Newcastle team's use of the ball.

 

When Klopp did play high intensity football, his teams kept the ball well and passed it well within that system, because he better coaches that style and he had the players capable of passing the ball well within that system. I see similar traits with Iraola. 

 

Howe plays high intensity, but he hasn't signed enough players that keep the ball well enough or pass the ball well enough, and to be honest I'm not sure he does as good a job of coaching passing patterns or combinations either.

 

For some reason you're trying to claim Klopp didn't play a high intensity style because they kept the ball well, but that is flat out wrong. When they faced smaller teams that just sat deep, obviously they're going to have to play with more patience as the opposition are more defensive, and his teams were still able to find solutions in these instances because they are better with the ball and are better coached.

 

In contrast when Newcastle face the same situation, they cannot find solutions because the team does not have enough players that are capable passers and we don't seem to have much of a clue when it comes to coming up with combinations to open teams up. This inevitably leads to them losing the ball more in silly situations and the games becoming more end to end. The end to end nature of things is due to Newcastle being rubbish with the ball for the most part.

[Magpie Mover]

So in summary we are just badly coached. And yet apparently the owners think more of the same will end up with a different result. 

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, Magpie Mover said:

So in summary we are just badly coached. And yet apparently the owners think more of the same will end up with a different result. 

 

I'd say it's a combination of players not good enough with the ball, and yes, to some extent how well the team is coached to use the ball. I don't see too many great passing patterns out there tbh.

 

It was a big call by the ownership for sure and me personally, I'm nervous about it. Hopefully if we at least can improve the quality of players that are brought in that should help, but the manager also still has to come up with a better setup and plan for how we function with the ball.

[KingArthur]

26 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

 

For some reason you seem to think playing high intensity football means shit passing and not controlling games, because Newcastle have this issue. The problem is with the Newcastle team's use of the ball.

 

When Klopp did play high intensity football, his teams kept the ball well and passed it well within that system, because he better coaches that style and he had the players capable of passing the ball well within that system. I see similar traits with Iraola. 

 

Howe plays high intensity, but he hasn't signed enough players that keep the ball well enough or pass the ball well enough, and to be honest I'm not sure he does as good a job of coaching passing patterns or combinations either.

 

For some reason you're trying to claim Klopp didn't play a high intensity style because they kept the ball well, but that is flat out wrong. When they faced smaller teams that just sat deep, obviously they're going to have to play with more patience as the opposition are more defensive, and his teams were still able to find solutions in these instances because they are better with the ball and are better coached.

 

In contrast when Newcastle face the same situation, they cannot find solutions because the team does not have enough players that are capable passers and we don't seem to have much of a clue when it comes to coming up with combinations to open teams up. This inevitably leads to them losing the ball more in silly situations and the games becoming more end to end. The end to end nature of things is due to Newcastle being rubbish with the ball for the most part.

No, I don't think so, but Iraola's football is high intensity with a lot of turnovers and chaos. When all the big teams are trying to get away from it. A high number of turnovers means more chances for counters and that is the best chance for weaker teams to score. If you control the ball more and push the opponent back, they are less likely to score, football 101. Slot tried to move away from chaos, but wasn't successful enough this season. Liverpool were too predictable attacking. 

What you don't seem to get is that Klopp aside, no other major team plays like Iraola's Bournemouth. There is a reason for that you know? If Iraola want's to be a successful manager, he has to change his game so they can keep the ball better. So does Howe. Klopp's Liverpool ran out of gas in the end and he had an excellent squad, that Iraola will not have. Liverpool had 60 % of possession on average under Klopp, Iraola's Bournemouth is around 47. Totally different thing.

Klopp DID play high intensity football, BUT they also kept the ball a lot. It wasn't basketball-football, I don't get how this is so hard to get. They were pressing a lot, but it was not as chaotic as Bournemouth's game has been this season for example. 

Can Iraola be success at Liverpool? Certainly. Do I think so? They will not challenge for the title most likely.

There is no need to put laughing emojis, it doesn't make your argument any better or mine any worse.

edit. And yes, we need more quality passers and players who are technical. Howe doesn't seem to think so, and I don't think he has a possession play up his sleeve, so will see more of the same next season. Unless there is some personnel changes in the coaching department.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 16:39 by KingArthur

[KaKa]

7 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

No, I don't think so, but Iraola's football is high intensity with a lot of turnovers and chaos. When all the big teams are trying to get away from it. A high number of turnovers means more chances for counters and that is the best chance for weaker teams to score. If you control the ball more and push the opponent back, they are less likely to score, football 101. Slot tried to move away from chaos, but wasn't successful enough this season. Liverpool were too predictable attacking. 

What you don't seem to get is that Klopp aside, no other major team plays like Iraola's Bournemouth. There is a reason for that you know? If Iraola want's to be a successful manager, he has to change his game so they can keep the ball better. So does Howe. Klopp's Liverpool ran out of gas in the end and he had an excellent squad, that Iraola will not have. Liverpool had 60 % of possession on average under Klopp, Iraola's Bournemouth is around 47. Totally different thing.

Klopp DID play high intensity football, BUT they also kept the ball a lot. It wasn't basketball-football, I don't get how this is so hard to get. They were pressing a lot, but it was not as chaotic as Bournemouth's game has been this season for example. 

Can Iraola be success at Liverpool? Certainly. Do I think so? They will not challenge for the title most likely.

There is no need to put laughing emojis, it doesn't make your argument any better or mine any worse.

edit. And yes, we need more quality passers and players who are technical. Howe doesn't seem to think so, and I don't think he has a possession play up his sleeve, so will see more of the same next season. Unless there is some personnel changes in the coaching department.

 

 

 

 

I've addressed all this in my last post. Bournemouth do not simply play chaotic basketball football they use the ball much better than Newcastle do.

 

They do not keep possession for possession sake. At Bournemouth less teams are going to setup to sit back against them and so they punish teams in behind more often. This does not mean they don't pass the ball well or keep the ball well. It does mean though, that their possession numbers are not necessarily going to be as high, because like I said they don't keep the ball for the sake of it.

 

At a more prominent club like Liverpool and with better players more teams are going to sit back against his teams and their possession numbers will be higher. This doesn't suddenly mean he has changed the style of play with more control. It will mean they have more of the ball because teams are ceding territory, but I would expect his teams to still cause the opposition problems because from what I've seen of his Bournemouth teams they are good with the ball and play combinations that open teams up.

 

 

[KingArthur]

36 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

I've addressed all this in my last post. Bournemouth do not simply play chaotic basketball football they use the ball much better than Newcastle do.

 

They do not keep possession for possession sake. At Bournemouth less teams are going to setup to sit back against them and so they punish teams in behind more often. This does not mean they don't pass the ball well or keep the ball well. It does mean though, that their possession numbers are not necessarily going to be as high, because like I said they don't keep the ball for the sake of it.

 

At a more prominent club like Liverpool and with better players more teams are going to sit back against his teams and their possession numbers will be higher. This doesn't suddenly mean he has changed the style of play with more control. It will mean they have more of the ball because teams are ceding territory, but I would expect his teams to still cause the opposition problems because from what I've seen of his Bournemouth teams they are good with the ball and play combinations that open teams up.

 

 

Yea, but better teams also keep the ball "for the sake of it". It takes the sting out of teams like Newcastle at St. James'. They keep the ball to control it and defend with it: case in point, PSG yesterday. They needed a goal but they didn't want to lose the ball in wrong parts of the pitch. Hence, they keep circulating the ball over and over again, and Arsenal try counter and ran after it like idiots. When Arsenal got up, they crossed the ball very quickly and tried to create a chance from a "small percentage" ball. 

If they try to force it and create by taking big risks, it will backfire too often. Again, example. First game of the season: Liverpool-Bournemouth. Bournemouth's new left back Truffert made A LOT of runs forward, occasionally leaving Mo Salah behind him (who doesn't track back). He created a good chance for early on for Semenyo, but that is a huge gamble from Iraola to just tell his left back to leave the player of the season behind him and bomb forward. I like managers who want to go on, take risks and win football matches. That is the way this sport should be played. But sadly I don't think it wins you championships.

I don't know if Iraola can change. Arteta has changed, Pep has, Howe hasn't etc. If he can mix it, they have a chance. 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 17:46 by KingArthur

[Rod]

1 hour ago, KaKa said:

 

 

For some reason you seem to think playing high intensity football means shit passing and not controlling games, because Newcastle have this issue. The problem is with the Newcastle team's use of the ball.

 

When Klopp did play high intensity football, his teams kept the ball well and passed it well within that system, because he better coaches that style and he had the players capable of passing the ball well within that system. I see similar traits with Iraola. 

 

Howe plays high intensity, but he hasn't signed enough players that keep the ball well enough or pass the ball well enough, and to be honest I'm not sure he does as good a job of coaching passing patterns or combinations either.

 

For some reason you're trying to claim Klopp didn't play a high intensity style because they kept the ball well, but that is flat out wrong. When they faced smaller teams that just sat deep, obviously they're going to have to play with more patience as the opposition are more defensive, and his teams were still able to find solutions in these instances because they are better with the ball and are better coached.

 

In contrast when Newcastle face the same situation, they cannot find solutions because the team does not have enough players that are capable passers and we don't seem to have much of a clue when it comes to coming up with combinations to open teams up. This inevitably leads to them losing the ball more in silly situations and the games becoming more end to end. The end to end nature of things is due to Newcastle being rubbish with the ball for the most part.

Are you just cherry picking this season to justify your argument? Because let's face it, we've had a shit season.

Last season Newcastle were canny good and even the season before. You remember, when we won a trophy and were competing the absolute best in Europe?

So no Newcastle aren't shit at passing the ball, they were just shit THIS SEASON. I'll give you that sunshine, we were shit all over the pitch THIS SEASON.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 17:58 by Rod