TRon Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I really do think the cup defeat has been one too many for most people. We know we aren't going to win the league, and most of us would be surprised if we qualified for Europe, so a decent cup run is all we really have to keep us interested, because the football certainly won't. I can't remeber a manger who was so consistently shite in cup games. How this twat ever got to a cup final is beyond me, although that was about 20 years ago, and his football philosophy still seems from the same era. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 See the other thread, the cups are to give the squad players games and anything more than the minimum number of matches jeopardises our Premier League status. This comes from the very top and is the policy of the club. How anyone can deny Pardew is complicit in this and deny how it would undoubtedly affect the mentality of the players is beyond me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 See the other thread, the cups are to give the squad players games and anything more than the minimum number of matches jeopardises our Premier League status. This comes from the very top and is the policy of the club. How anyone can deny Pardew is complicit in this and deny how it would undoubtedly affect the mentality of the players is beyond me. But the squad players didn't get a game, and our premier league status isn't under threat this year, so I don't really see how the blame for this one can go anywhere other than the manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 You rarely on here after defeat see posters say, 'well the players need to take a long hard look at themselves after that'. The immiediete backlash goes straight to Pardew, the players have to be taken into account as well. When a defeat arises, Pardew gets the blunt of it which isn't always fair imo. Eh, did you not see the stick Debuchy got for the sending off, or the stick Shola got for the Southampton and other games. Trying to change the truth wont make Pardew any better, you are deluded by your insistance that Pardew isn't crap. It was me saying that had Debuchy not got sent off, Pardew would have got at least a point if not the win? I thought it was going well until that red but people were saying we were a mess? Just like i thought Eliot was shocking and had us more knocked out than Pardew did against Cardiff, fair enough his tactics weren't steamrolling Cardiff but he got the first goal and was let down by his keeper and done off a late set piece. All the while Pardew is being painted an awful picture for having 3 L's now beside the form column when things haven't been as bad as some make out. He's got things wrong yes but he's also been let down by some of his players as well. He'll turn it around though and the players will step up the mark again, i'm sure of that. I'm not going overboard just because we've had a few iffy games in which we got beat. We were stuffed off Fulham and Spurs around these times in the 5th season but he bounced back, no reason to why the players won't respond to this. Brett you are doing the exact same thing. How the fuck would it have been Pardew getting the point or the win? You are banging on about people blaming Pardew when we get beat, and then in the same breath, mentioning if it wasn't for players, Pardew would have got a point or a win? Fucking hell lad, you are doolaly tap and so clearly Pardew's number one fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 There's still a strong implication from some that if you believe Pardew could be doing better then you must also believe the investment in the squad is adequate and the way Ashley runs the club is acceptable. That's absolute rubbish. When apparently sane people believe we have built a squad capable of challenging the top six (or top 4 with a Robson or Keegan), then surely 'adequate' (able to barely fulfil a need or requirement without being outstanding) is conservative if anything. Hard pushed to argue it being 'absolute rubbish' that Ashley has done an adequate job in that respect, though it would certainly be a stretch to say much positive about the direction he is taking the club. I don't believe the squad is particularly capable of challenging the top six over a season so give Pardew considerably more leeway in the table than most seem to as it stands. Apparently sane? We achieved 5th with Pardew. And you think KK or SBR couldn't do better consistently? I'd say that's a fairly big slight on them tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 We never stuff anyone, we only beat Stoke like we did because they had 9 men. How many more game do you need to see for it to sink in that Pardew is a do enough manager. And he likes to get it done by being defensive and contain teams, nicking a goal and holding it. It's right there for you to see, we may have a go at teams now and again but the majority of our games are do enough boring s***. We deserve better than that. I just want to see a more attacking team, more attacking intent, more creativity. Him and the team may bounce back but it'll still be stale narrow wins, sorry but like i say we deserve better, we deserve more. Our style of play, our lack of attacking momement, our lack of ruthlessness (Stoke apart), our lack of cohesion are all down to Pardew. He's the manager, he set the tactics and he is the person who is overall to blame. Deny it all you like but it's the truth. I'd love that just as much as you Bimpy, who doesn't want their team playing with more attacking intent and scoring more goals. You make it sound like it’s the only the section of fans who want Pardew sacked want this type of football. Attacking is what football should be all about, sadly it's become far too much of a tactical affair and analysis of it all taking to the extremes. The days of each side playing 4-4-2 and just going hammer and tong are long gone. Now it's this formation against that formation, 10 men behind the ball and all this nonsense which is spoiling football. Saying this, we have attached ourselves to this kind of tosh but it's producing effective results, and whilst the results on the pitch are positive and things haven't got so boring to the point i can't watch, i'm happy to ride the wave and if that's nicking 1 nil wins, then so be it. If Ashley finally seen sense and binned Pardew for a top European coach, I’ll be just as happy as the next fan, but I won’t be holding my breath for it. And if Ashley sacked Pardew and brought in another side stepper, well...i don't even want to think of that scenario happening again tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 You rarely on here after defeat see posters say, 'well the players need to take a long hard look at themselves after that'. The immiediete backlash goes straight to Pardew, the players have to be taken into account as well. When a defeat arises, Pardew gets the blunt of it which isn't always fair imo. Eh, did you not see the stick Debuchy got for the sending off, or the stick Shola got for the Southampton and other games. Trying to change the truth wont make Pardew any better, you are deluded by your insistance that Pardew isn't crap. It was me saying that had Debuchy not got sent off, Pardew would have got at least a point if not the win? I thought it was going well until that red but people were saying we were a mess? Just like i thought Eliot was shocking and had us more knocked out than Pardew did against Cardiff, fair enough his tactics weren't steamrolling Cardiff but he got the first goal and was let down by his keeper and done off a late set piece. All the while Pardew is being painted an awful picture for having 3 L's now beside the form column when things haven't been as bad as some make out. He's got things wrong yes but he's also been let down by some of his players as well. He'll turn it around though and the players will step up the mark again, i'm sure of that. I'm not going overboard just because we've had a few iffy games in which we got beat. We were stuffed off Fulham and Spurs around these times in the 5th season but he bounced back, no reason to why the players won't respond to this. Brett you are doing the exact same thing. How the f*** would it have been Pardew getting the point or the win? You are banging on about people blaming Pardew when we get beat, and then in the same breath, mentioning if it wasn't for players, Pardew would have got a point or a win? f***ing hell lad, you are doolaly tap and so clearly Pardew's number one fan. Well we, we would have got the point at the very least, didn't mean to say he tactically got us those or takes all the credit. I thought we were showing a lot of commitment down there and both teams were fighting each other and it was a tightly fought game, intro of Ben Arfa i felt would swing things in our favour but before we could get him on the ball enough, we were down to 10 which changed things completely and then obviously 1 nil down. One rash moment and the context of the game gave them the upper hand and they took advantage, fair play. Take it on the chin. Plenty more points throughout the season to pick up. I can't see us given Man City a free ride come Sunday, we will be up for another fight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 We were rubbish before the sending off at West Brom, I'll never accept any of this 'hard done by' stuff when the team isn't attacking the opposition in a meaningful way. You play like that and you deserve what you get, whether you're undone by a sending off, an "unlucky" bounce, a bad refereeing decision or whatever. In games like that where you've a much better set of players than the opposition and are in far better form then the only way you can bemoan your "approach" not working is if you go out there to show your dominance but it still doesn't work out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 See there's one blame Pardew for West Brom and not Debuchy. Plenty more of them as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 See there's one blame Pardew for West Brom and not Debuchy. Plenty more of them as well. Clearly they both take some of the blame man. Can't remember who it was, but someone on here said that it's Pardew's fault we didn't win and Debuchy's fault that we lost, which is fair enough IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 See there's one blame Pardew for West Brom and not Debuchy. Plenty more of them as well. Do you not see the blind irony in your own posts? As opposed to your view, when we win its Pardew in all his glory and when we lose its those pesky gutless players!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 See there's one blame Pardew for West Brom and not Debuchy. Plenty more of them as well. Clearly they both take some of the blame man. Can't remember who it was, but someone on here said that it's Pardew's fault we didn't win and Debuchy's fault that we lost, which is fair enough IMO. That's a decent assessment of it Well said whoever you are Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 It was a game we should have won btw, but we were woeful without any intent, so any critique coming Pardew's way is justified. Think it was mojorising who said it btw, not sure though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 See there's one blame Pardew for West Brom and not Debuchy. Plenty more of them as well. Do you not see the blind irony in your own posts? As opposed to your view, when we win its Pardew in all his glory and when we lose its those pesky gutless players!? I think even when we win the players aren't covered in enough glory? I think they've been excellent thus far in the season hence why we are only 6 points off the champions league spot. There's more criticism than there is praise on here that's for sure. I haven't criticised either party too much this season as i've been happy with how things are going really. Yes we got beat off Man City in extra time but it was vallaint effort straight after the mackems then backed it up against Chelsea. Then we got outdone in last 20 minutes against Cardiff and i'm hoping the players bounce back on Sunday with a much better showing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 It was a game we should have won btw, but we were woeful without any intent, so any critique coming Pardew's way is justified. Think it was mojorising who said it btw, not sure though. Kid Icarus iirc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 It was a game we should have won btw, but we were woeful without any intent, so any critique coming Pardew's way is justified. Think it was mojorising who said it btw, not sure though. Kid Icarus iirc. Ahh fuck off then if it was him who said it, take back what i said, he's wrong, all Debuchy's fault Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 See there's one blame Pardew for West Brom and not Debuchy. Plenty more of them as well. I said that if you go out hoping to bore the opposition to death then you have no right to bemoan your luck when it doesn't work out. Debuchy being a moron made our task much harder, but equally we could have lost anyway as we weren't attacking the opposition in a way worth discussing. It was 60 minutes of nothing up to that point, which I would blame the manager for going by his post-match comments which seemed to suggest that was the plan, as it often is. Your over-simplification of people's arguments to make yourself look sensible is massively grating at times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 See there's one blame Pardew for West Brom and not Debuchy. Plenty more of them as well. I said that if you go out hoping to bore the opposition to death then you have no right to bemoan your luck when it doesn't work out. Debuchy being a moron made our task much harder, but equally we could have lost anyway as we weren't attacking the opposition in a way worth discussing. It was 60 minutes of nothing up to that point, which I would blame the manager for going by his post-match comments which seemed to suggest that was the plan, as it often is. Your over-simplification of people's arguments to make yourself look sensible is massively grating at times. It was clearly his plan to keep it tight then strike, introduction of Ben Arfa early suggested we would be trying to attack them more but we couldn't get him on the ball enough. Though i still bemused to why when through he stopped and let two defenders get back with him then try and take them on, the strange football brain of Hatem This is not me agreeing with his tactics, no reason why we couldn't control this match like we did with Palace. Pardew seems to over complicate things himself by chopping and changing when to control or not, sometimes it's worked, sometimes it's failed. Frustrating nonetheless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 See there's one blame Pardew for West Brom and not Debuchy. Plenty more of them as well. I said that if you go out hoping to bore the opposition to death then you have no right to bemoan your luck when it doesn't work out. Debuchy being a moron made our task much harder, but equally we could have lost anyway as we weren't attacking the opposition in a way worth discussing. It was 60 minutes of nothing up to that point, which I would blame the manager for going by his post-match comments which seemed to suggest that was the plan, as it often is. Your over-simplification of people's arguments to make yourself look sensible is massively grating at times. It was clearly his plan to keep it tight then strike, introduction of Ben Arfa early suggested we would be trying to attack them more but we couldn't get him on the ball enough. Though i still bemused to why when through he stopped and let two defenders get back with him then try and take them on, the strange football brain of Hatem This is not me agreeing with his tactics, no reason why we couldn't control this match like we did with Palace. Pardew seems to over complicate things himself by chopping and changing when to control or not, sometimes it's worked, sometimes it's failed. Frustrating nonetheless. There's 2 blaming Pardew rather than Debuchy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 No because i felt his tactics for that match were succeeding to getting a point at least until Debuchy f***ed him over. Its just i would have approached the game differently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 West Brom had missed two pretty clear cut chances (Anelka and Ridgewell) before Debuchy was sent off, so not sure the "contain and then attack them" plan was working too well anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Why would we want to go to West Brom to get a point? Your argument is all over the shop man, seriously it's changing like the wind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 No because i felt his tactics for that match were succeeding to getting a point at least until Debuchy f***ed him over. Its just i would have approached the game differently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Why would we want to go to West Brom to get a point? Your argument is all over the shop man, seriously it's changing like the wind. I don't know ask Pardew why he decided to try and contain them from scoring then looking to nick one. I've said i didn't agree with that tactic but if Debuchy hadn't of got sent and Ebn Arfa nicks the goal, it's 3 points, didn't work this time for him though due to the sending off giving WB the advantage and reducing the chances of us nicking it big style like he would have planned. We should have approached it like Palace, weather we would have won like that or not we'll never know but that's how i would have set up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Why would we want to go to West Brom to get a point? Your argument is all over the shop man, seriously it's changing like the wind. I don't know ask Pardew why he decided to try and contain them from scoring then looking to nick one. I've said i didn't agree with that tactic but if Debuchy hadn't of got sent and Ebn Arfa nicks the goal, it's 3 points, didn't work this time for him though due to the sending off giving WB the advantage and reducing the chances of us nicking it big style like he would have planned. We should have approached it like Palace, weather we would have won like that or not we'll never know but that's how i would have set up. That approach (let's call it the West Brom approach) is far less effective than the Crystal Palace approach against lesser opposition, besides being less pleasing on the eye. That's why people have a problem with it, it's more likely to go wrong and is unnecessary, boring and tedious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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