Manchester United

[Shearergol]

Why did he wear a tie?

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Because he was smarter than the average bear.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

On 21/08/2024 at 10:17, AyeDubbleYoo said:

You’d have thought paying people enough to want to be productive and enough to go the shops would help growth. 

 

7 minutes ago, Abacus said:

 

I feel the best cartoon bear isn't even being discussed in amongst all this other nonsense.

 

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

6 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

 

 

Hes here, hes there, hes shagging Dani Behr, 

[SweMag]

Spot on this:

 

”The comprehensive 3-0 defeat Manchester United suffered against Liverpool highlighted deep-rooted tactical issues that have plagued Erik Ten Hag’s side. While individual errors played a role, the underlying problem was an incoherent structure that left United vulnerable and disjointed throughout the match.  Arne Slotpointed out how easy it was to cut throughUnited and score the 3 goals which says a lot of about both the Liverpool manager and his counterpart at Manchester United. Here are three key tactical blunders that contributed to United’s downfall.
 

One of the most glaring issues was the positioning of United’s full-backs. Both Diogo Dalot and Noussair Mazraoui were consistently caught high up the pitch, leaving vast spaces behind them. This was particularly evident in the lead-up to Liverpool’s first goal. As Casemiro received the ball deep in United’s half, both full-backs were already advancing forward, limiting his passing options. Casemiro’s ill-advised attempt to play out wide was intercepted, leading to a devastating Liverpool counterattack. The overcommitting of the full-backs left United’s defense exposed, and Liverpool took full advantage.

In an era where the likes of Pep Guardiola and Slot himself are redefining the full-back role by asking them to step in midfield to provide extra passing options, Ten Hag’s approach to his full backs seems from an era bygone.
 

The second goal epitomized United’s midfield struggles. Casemiro, once a stalwart in defensive midfield, found himself isolated and under constant pressure. When Mazraoui played a weak pass towards him, neither Kobbie Mainoo nor Bruno Fernandes were in a position to offer support. This left Casemiro with few options and resulted in him losing possession to Luis Díaz, who easily capitalized on the mistake. The lack of a coherent midfield structure meant that when United lost the ball, there was no cover, leaving the defense exposed time and again.
 

Another critical issue was United’s inability to press effectively as a unit. Ten Hag’s pressing strategy seemed disjointed, with the forwards and midfielders often pressing in isolation rather than as a cohesive group. This allowed Liverpool to easily bypass the press and exploit the gaps in United’s midfield. The disorganization in pressing not only failed to disrupt Liverpool’s buildup but also left United’s defense exposed to quick transitions. Liverpool’s third goal was a direct consequence of United’s ineffective pressing, as the team was unable to regain possession in dangerous areas and allowed Liverpool to dominate the tempo of the game.

Erik Ten Hag’s tactical approach against Liverpool exposed significant weaknesses in Manchester United’s setup. The overcommitting of full-backs, lack of midfield support, and ineffective pressing strategy were all key factors in the 3-0 defeat. A lot of blame can be attributed to Casemiro’s mistake but the system in which the Brazilian operates is the root cause. At Real Madrid, he had Toni Kroos and Luka Modric as his partners and his main responsibility was to protect the defense and recycle the possession. At United, he is expected to protect the defense and also carry out the ball and make progressive passes without adequate support from his teammates. This is something, Manuel Ugarte will also struggle with.”

[simonsays]

24 minutes ago, SweMag said:

Spot on this:

 

”The comprehensive 3-0 defeat Manchester United suffered against Liverpool highlighted deep-rooted tactical issues that have plagued Erik Ten Hag’s side. While individual errors played a role, the underlying problem was an incoherent structure that left United vulnerable and disjointed throughout the match.  Arne Slotpointed out how easy it was to cut throughUnited and score the 3 goals which says a lot of about both the Liverpool manager and his counterpart at Manchester United. Here are three key tactical blunders that contributed to United’s downfall.
 

One of the most glaring issues was the positioning of United’s full-backs. Both Diogo Dalot and Noussair Mazraoui were consistently caught high up the pitch, leaving vast spaces behind them. This was particularly evident in the lead-up to Liverpool’s first goal. As Casemiro received the ball deep in United’s half, both full-backs were already advancing forward, limiting his passing options. Casemiro’s ill-advised attempt to play out wide was intercepted, leading to a devastating Liverpool counterattack. The overcommitting of the full-backs left United’s defense exposed, and Liverpool took full advantage.

In an era where the likes of Pep Guardiola and Slot himself are redefining the full-back role by asking them to step in midfield to provide extra passing options, Ten Hag’s approach to his full backs seems from an era bygone.
 

The second goal epitomized United’s midfield struggles. Casemiro, once a stalwart in defensive midfield, found himself isolated and under constant pressure. When Mazraoui played a weak pass towards him, neither Kobbie Mainoo nor Bruno Fernandes were in a position to offer support. This left Casemiro with few options and resulted in him losing possession to Luis Díaz, who easily capitalized on the mistake. The lack of a coherent midfield structure meant that when United lost the ball, there was no cover, leaving the defense exposed time and again.
 

Another critical issue was United’s inability to press effectively as a unit. Ten Hag’s pressing strategy seemed disjointed, with the forwards and midfielders often pressing in isolation rather than as a cohesive group. This allowed Liverpool to easily bypass the press and exploit the gaps in United’s midfield. The disorganization in pressing not only failed to disrupt Liverpool’s buildup but also left United’s defense exposed to quick transitions. Liverpool’s third goal was a direct consequence of United’s ineffective pressing, as the team was unable to regain possession in dangerous areas and allowed Liverpool to dominate the tempo of the game.

Erik Ten Hag’s tactical approach against Liverpool exposed significant weaknesses in Manchester United’s setup. The overcommitting of full-backs, lack of midfield support, and ineffective pressing strategy were all key factors in the 3-0 defeat. A lot of blame can be attributed to Casemiro’s mistake but the system in which the Brazilian operates is the root cause. At Real Madrid, he had Toni Kroos and Luka Modric as his partners and his main responsibility was to protect the defense and recycle the possession. At United, he is expected to protect the defense and also carry out the ball and make progressive passes without adequate support from his teammates. This is something, Manuel Ugarte will also struggle with.”

Perversely it's the sort of game ETH would have used WanBissaka in previously - he was limited but good defensively.  It seemed odd to me that they wanted him gone

[JUICE690]

2 hours ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

No wonder you have a lot of disgruntled fans given how many probably started supporting a club who won the league 13 times in that period. 

 

 

 

"So, what first attracted you to multi-trophy-winning, Manchester United?"

 

 

 

Edited September 3 by JUICE690

[Unlucky Luque]

I’m over the moon that we’re actually getting tactical analysis ripping apart Ten Hag’s approach instead of xG twitter bro-analytics and «third-most X in Y since 2007»-type stat nonsense, so hats off to Man Utd for enabling the shift in narrative 👍👍

 

 

Edited September 3 by Unlucky Luque

[Froggy]

1 hour ago, simonsays said:

Perversely it's the sort of game ETH would have used WanBissaka in previously - he was limited but good defensively.  It seemed odd to me that they wanted him gone

 

Because Ten Hag wants versatile, attacking full backs. AWB wasn't versatile and he couldn't attack. 

 

Still really liked him mind.

[Rod]

6 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

Was it easy for them? They didn't have a shot until Casemiro gifted them a goal. Maybe a bit easier for them once we're chasing the game.

You were beaten 3-0 at home.  Was it easy for them?  ffs.

[Froggy]

11 minutes ago, Rod said:

You were beaten 3-0 at home.  Was it easy for them?  ffs.

 

If I gave you my car keys Rod, would it be easy for you to take my car?

[KaKa]

8 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Once again posting to remind everyone that spending x on a relegation threatened team that hasn't been invested in for the best part of 14 years isn't remotely the same as spending x on an already European/Title chasing team that had over a billion net spent on it in the same time period.

 

 

 

 

The shamelessness of the man is astonishing.

 

What a disgrace.

[Abacus]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

The shamelessness of the man is astonishing.

 

What a disgrace.

 

Ace posts thread here we come.

[simonsays]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

 

Because Ten Hag wants versatile, attacking full backs. AWB wasn't versatile and he couldn't attack. 

 

Still really liked him mind.

The two you are using currently seemingly can't defend

[Froggy]

46 minutes ago, Abacus said:

 

Ace posts thread here we come.

 

Please don't encourage him.

[Pixelphish]

I genuinely love Kaka. The forum would be lesser without him.

[Abacus]

3 hours ago, Pixelphish said:

I genuinely love Kaka. The forum would be lesser without him.

 

Agreed. Adds so much.

 

Edit - so many players I know nothing about that he's prepared to champion, never afraid to express an opinion either. 

 

 

Edited September 3 by Abacus

[Froggy]

A lot of you probably won't care, but I'm going to do a serious post this morning. This is the Manchester United thread and I want to vomit some words on the game because I'm still annoyed about it.

 

I see a lot of people claiming that Casemiro's play is a result of the system, and that the defeat is down to the manager. I know some of these comments are just banter and people are enjoying when we lose, but a lot of people genuinely believe that, and I'm a bit shocked by it. They also don't believe that Ugarte will solve this problem despite Ugarte being a midfield destroyer who plays the simple pass, i.e. exactly what we need.

 

Before Liverpool had scored, Casemiro had already given the ball away more than any player on the pitch. Just not acceptable for your defensive midfielder. At that point we had more possession, more shots, more shots on target, more passes, more tackles won etc. Casemiro was continuing to give the ball away and Liverpool were growing more and more into the game.

 

I've watched this game back quite a bit. A lot of will find this funny, but I genuinely don't think we played that bad, despite a horrific result. We've played much, much worse in the last 12 months and come away with victories. We created a lot of good chances, and our mistakes were punished badly by some ridiculously clinical finishing. Not the biggest fan of xG, and I use it tongue in cheek most days, but the game xG was: Man Utd (1.52) 0-3 (1.50) Liverpool. A more eye opening xG was Joshua Zirkzee (1.08) 0-2 (0.31) Luis Diaz.

 

Anyway, on to Casemiro. I've seen opposition fans make excuses for him. But there were no excuses. He was under little to no pressure for the vast majority of his errors, and 9 times out of 10 he passed it directly to them. 

 

Took some screenshots from a replay I watched. See below:

 

Under slight pressure here, but passes it directly to directly to Robertson, and Liverpool counter.

 

Under zero pressure here, passes it directly to Van Dijk when Martinez, Dalot, Rashford and even Bruno are in acres of space. I've seen criticism aimed at Ten Hag because of how attacking the full backs are and that they're not available for the pass. That's not true. They step inside and are almost always available, especially Dalot

 

Under some pressure here, but nothing he shouldn't be able to deal with. He lets the ball get away from him, and clatters into Mac Allister, giving away a free kick.

 

Under a bit of pressure here, but passes straight to Van Dijk and Liverpool counter. 

 

Under no real pressure and instead of going long here or looking for a pass, he inexplicably holds on to the ball allowed the opposition to close, and he tries to turn the Liverpool player and inevitably loses it. Liverpool counter.

 

It's still 0-0 at this point by the way.

 

Receives the ball in this position under a bit of pressure, and isn't aware of the Liverpool player behind him. Loses the ball, but De Ligt recovers it

 

Under no pressure whatsoever, passes to directly to Gravenberch, Liverpool counter and score.

 

Receives the ball here under pressure, Zirkzee has his hands out calling for it but Casemiro hangs on to it, loses it, Liverpool counter and score.

 

And his last action of the half, is to receive a throw in and pass it directly out of play instead of back to Mazraouri who is completely free.

/spoiler]

 

Casemiro second half highlights:

[Froggy]

Also guys, I'm happy at this point to admit that Isak was a better signing than Casemiro.

[Guest]

Ah the daily Froggy aneurysm

[RodneyCisse]

It’s only Wednesday Froggy and you’ve got Southampton next to put it all right.

[Cronky]

Man U still seem stuck in a pattern of impatience, where they make signings who aren't significantly better than the players they've already got. Our club has been criticised, from inside and outside our ranks, for not bringing in more players, but the more I think about it, the more I feel Eddie is right to hold his nerve.

 

Having said that, I think Ugarte will prove to be a good signing. He'll be a round peg in a round hole.

[Zero]

You really shouldn’t have that much expectation on Ugarte. I know you want to illustrate the system is fine and it’s just Casemiro who made it look problematic. But then if one of the best DM in the world still unable to perform well in such a system, questions should be asked.

 

I also find it funny that people tried to make Casemiro / ETH as the scrap goat, intentionally left Mainoo out of the conversation. To me Mainoo was equally bad. 

[Bimpy474]

 

8 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Also guys, I'm happy at this point to admit that Isak was a better signing than Casemiro.

 

At this point 

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Zero said:

You really shouldn’t have that much expectation on Ugarte. I know you want to illustrate the system is fine and it’s just Casemiro who made it look problematic. But then if one of the best DM in the world still unable to perform well in such a system, questions should be asked.

 

I also find it funny that people tried to make Casemiro / ETH as the scrap goat, intentionally left Mainoo out of the conversation. To me Mainoo was equally bad. 

 

Oh the system has issues, it requires everything to be perfect. I'm not in any way saying the system doesn't carry blame for the play over the last 12 months, but it's looked a lot more compact early this season, and it's been individual mistakes that have cost us the games.

 

Mainoo was fully at fault for the third goal as well, but I'm not going to start tearing apart a 19 year old in his first full season. He's clearly an excellent player, but he shouldn't be starting every week and being relied on as much as he is.