Manchester United

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

 

Nope I agree with the manager. He's been brought in to play his way, so play it. No point adapting like Ten Hag did and gaining a false position and then trying to retrain players in pre-season. 

 

He can't bring in 11 new players. I think if he went back to Ole ball for the rest of the season it would leave him far too much to do in the summer.

 

He's playing his way, and he's giving everyone a chance. Even Antony despite having one foot out the door has had multiple chances. He's just confirming who will be here next season and who won't be IMO.

Fair enough

 

Your owner doesn't seem like the patient type so this seems like a gamble on his part. 

 

 

Edited Monday at 07:06 by r0cafella

[Sibierski]

Pre Amorim era

 

Spoiler

Current Amorim era

 

Spoiler

Current stance

 

Aka, please sack me Ratcliffe.

[Groundhog63]

1 hour ago, Ben said:

 

How is he watching the game live ? I hope it's not a firestick.

 

20 minutes ago, ExiledGeordie said:

Yeah I wondered that too 

 

Cleary watching snide because of the delay. People telling him "it's a penalty" on his live chat and him waiting for it to come on his feed 😂

 

 

[Groundhog63]

58 minutes ago, SteV said:

 

https://x.com/joshuapsjones/status/1881104792698933347?s=46&t=OQLMckSuatbpqWF13Al4mQ

 

Need an "unlike" option. 

[Froggy]

11 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Fair enough

 

Your owner doesn't seem like the patient type so this seems like a gamble on his part. 

 

That's on Ratcliffe if he wants to go that route. You can't bring in an exciting new manager who has a specific style then sack him after 10 weeks because it's not clicked immediately. 

[r0cafella]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

That's on Ratcliffe if he wants to go that route. You can't bring in an exciting new manager who has a specific style then sack him after 10 weeks because it's not clicked immediately. 

Your a generous soul. Radcliffe would obviously have his share of blame but the way Manchester United fans are bending over backwards to absolve the manager of any responsibility is fascinating. 

[Stifler]

Going to say it now, if that’s true then it’s very poor, however if his grandad has dementia and isn’t able to do basic things like scan in etc, then the club should be saying that he needs carer to go with him.

Not a chance that I would want someone I know being in that position.

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

Your a generous soul. Radcliffe would obviously have his share of blame but the way Manchester United fans are bending over backwards to absolve the manager of any responsibility is fascinating. 

 

I think it makes perfect sense that Amorim doesn't get any blame. Yet. He's doing things we've been begging for for ages as well, i.e. binning the likes of Antony and Rashford and making players like Amad the focus.

 

I find his honesty refreshing, even if opposition fans find it jarring. Ten Hag was full of excuses whereas Amorim just says it how it is. If the players can't handle that, then they're not up to it. 

 

I would expect a lot of movement around transfers in the summer, and he'll get another season to improve significantly. 

 

Not going to lie and say I expected it to be this bad when he came in though.  It's worse than I expected, and we wouldn't put up with this next season after he gets a summer window to get some of his own players in.

[Groundhog63]

7 minutes ago, Stifler said:

Going to say it now, if that’s true then it’s very poor, however if his grandad has dementia and isn’t able to do basic things like scan in etc, then the club should be saying that he needs carer to go with him.

Not a chance that I would want someone I know being in that position.

 

I don't think, from reading the tweet, that the old fella's dementia is off a cliff. He may even go with others, it's not defined. My take on it is his paper ticket doesn't graft, regardless of his mental capacity. That's the issue. 

The dementia bit is probably thrown in for extra empathy. 

As you say, if he was that bad with it he would need support anyway. 

 

As a basic, customer support issue, it's poor. Maybees it's a thing now with box office mandarin 😔

[r0cafella]

8 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I think it makes perfect sense that Amorim doesn't get any blame. Yet. He's doing things we've been begging for for ages as well, i.e. binning the likes of Antony and Rashford and making players like Amad the focus.

 

I find his honesty refreshing, even if opposition fans find it jarring. Ten Hag was full of excuses whereas Amorim just says it how it is. If the players can't handle that, then they're not up to it. 

 

I would expect a lot of movement around transfers in the summer, and he'll get another season to improve significantly. 

 

Not going to lie and say I expected it to be this bad when he came in though.  It's worse than I expected, and we wouldn't put up with this next season after he gets a summer window to get some of his own players in.

Yeah I get your point it's not one I can agree with but I understand your reasoning. If a manager wishes to pick and choose which players he's managing and be totally dogmatic it's fine as long as your winning. When you aren't it's hugely problematic. I think Ange at Spurs is a perfect example of this. 

 

To add on, one of the reasons Howe is very highly rated by most of our fans is his ability to get more from players than what people thought they were capable of, it's the mark of a good manager. On the face of it, we aren't seeing anything like this at your lot just people saying how terrible every player is. 

 

 

Edited Monday at 07:48 by r0cafella

[Sibierski]

Honesty is one thing, but saying this is shit that is shit, and doing little about it isn’t some master manager because he says how it is. 

 

He’s a good coach because he produced at Sporting and you don’t get the heights he did by being average, but then certain coaches need the perfect environment and when it’s not that, they’re clueless and flap. That’s something fans can’t grasp.

 

Narrative is ‘he’s finding out who’s staying here next season etc’. The XI he keeps putting out, have to all stay because there’s big money tied up in them. And we all know the manager is easier to replace than players which makesMan Utd are no different to any other club. The days of SAF are way in the distant past.

He’s long way from being the first coach that’s been superb elsewhere and crash and burned in a different league because the environment hasn’t been right, and neither will he be the last.

 

His blessing is the Europa is weak so should get something going if they avoid Bilbao till the final. 

 

 

Edited Monday at 08:21 by Sibierski

[Erikse]

55 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

That's on Ratcliffe if he wants to go that route. You can't bring in an exciting new manager who has a specific style then sack him after 10 weeks because it's not clicked immediately. 

 

I agree, as he says the fans will have to live through all the memes for this season. It hurts, but it might be necessary. Next season will be the real test. No point in trying to fix this one, might aswell use it to implement the new style over time.

 

 

Edited Monday at 08:25 by Erikse

[Stifler]

In all fairness, I do think it’s right Amorim gets given time to rebuild the club. I also think that the fact he hasn’t had a new manager bounce effect, just shows the fact that the majority of players have checked out.

In saying that I think saying he’s not going to change and he’s only got 1 plan, makes him sound like Ange who is unwilling to change to fit games and is very limited.

I understand his true meaning was he’s got a plan, and it’s going to take time to get everyone on board with it and for it to take effect, but he’s worded it badly.

 

In saying this, I hope he is actually like Ange and will relentlessly make the same mistakes over and over again.

[Erikse]

Also worth noting that there is a lot of good talents there. Similar to Artetas first few years with Arsenal. He has got some man management to do, but if he can get the best out of them as they grow, they can become a real force.

 

 

Edited Monday at 08:31 by Erikse

[Newcastle Fan]

If you join a company as a manager because you had success at a previous job, then you start trying to implement the same formula on different staff and a different set-up, but you can see clearly it doesn't work, its on you to adapt to the new environment, you can't just go back to your boss and say i will not change who i am and i have to force them to follow my method even though they are not equipped to do so, and then say they are all terrible and the situation is awful.

 

Even Ruud managed to get something out of them, when you look at their squad these are all players bought for 50m+, it's not like Howe having to do it with Sean Longstaff and Jacob Murphy, yet Amorim is being stubborn and INEOS hired him with no plan to back him up.

 

Its clear that the main problem are the owners but he is doing little to help himself.

[Cronky]

Whatever he's trying to do in terms of a new system, I don't see the point of telling the world that this is possibly the worst Man United side ever. It's not going to inspire the players at all, and it also isn't true. They have a good squad that should be challenging for the European places.

 

There's a reckless aspect to his statements that make me wonder whether, deep down, he's in two minds about whether he wants to stay. 

[54]

The thing I find most interesting about Amorims comments yesterday was that it was so downtrodden, and negative, even if it is brutally honest (Which I admire him for tbh). They'd just come of a three game unbeaten streak, having put in positive performances at Anfield and the Emirates, and even if I think they where lucky against Southampton, they still showed the resolve at the end to turn it around, so there where positives in all three. This Brighton game was a set back, and was poor, but if I was the manager, i'd try and be at-least slightly uplifting, say something along the lines of "We've just had three games in which we made progress, this is a bit of a setback, but we're slowly getting better." Not come out with "This is the worst Man United team in its history, everyone is underperforming", it just feels needlessly negative when your job as a manager is to make the players confident.

[Ben]

I think Amorim will get it right if he's allowed to but getting players out and getting new ones in will cost a shit load of money, I just don't think that sort of cash is at Man Utd just now.

[Froggy]

Worth noting he didn't say it's the worst Man United side ever, he said we're being the worst Man United side ever, i.e. performing as bad as the worst Man United side ever. 

 

 

[ExiledGeordie]

The difficulty for any manager coming in for them at the moment is this mish mash of players that are left over from previous reigns. Some of ETH’s signings have been awful and just simply not worked and cost a fortune. This combined with the fact Amorim has come in halfway through the season makes it even harder for him certainly in the short term whereas getting a pre-season makes all the difference. Maybe they couldn’t get him in the summer but it seems mad looking back now giving ETH a new contract then sacking him and paying him off.

 

The Ashworth situation was an odd one too. 

 

 

Edited Monday at 09:09 by ExiledGeordie

[STM]

Eddie Howe showed that you can get results in the interim before implementing your style on the side.

 

In fact, it makes much more sense to implement your style after a good run of results, when the players have some confidence.

 

I do agree that Amorim should be given time but I dont agree that he couldn't have shown flexibility. Its arrogance on his part that he'd rather the side loses but played his way, rather than got results and slowly drip fed his style.

 

He suffering from the same pigheadedness that will get Ange sacked.

 

Even though I like Amorim as a bloke, I've seen enough to suggest that this won't work out long term. 

[Troll]

This is starting to feel like the Potter/Chelsea appointment to me.  Promising but inexperienced young manager taking a job where every single thing he does is overanalysed.  I think he'd do well at a team like Brighton, but is a bit out of his depth here.

[STM]

Feels like he's trying to show a computer to a load of cavemen.

 

Give them a rock and a stick Ruben and they will be a dab hand.

 

Play 433, players in the correct position, use the pace of Amad and the skill of Fernandes on the counter, they will pick up results quickly.

[Cf]

46 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Worth noting he didn't say it's the worst Man United side ever, he said we're being the worst Man United side ever, i.e. performing as bad as the worst Man United side ever. 

 

 

 

If we're getting to the point of analysing the sentence structure to work out what he meant then it's probably best to have not said it

[Cf]

Do we think this is why Ashworth left then?

 

Just thought this appointment was a bad idea and not what the club needed and it basically made his position untenable if he didn't agree with the choice of manager?