Manchester United

[Erikse]

Also worth noting that there is a lot of good talents there. Similar to Artetas first few years with Arsenal. He has got some man management to do, but if he can get the best out of them as they grow, they can become a real force.

 

 

Edited January 20 by Erikse

[Newcastle Fan]

If you join a company as a manager because you had success at a previous job, then you start trying to implement the same formula on different staff and a different set-up, but you can see clearly it doesn't work, its on you to adapt to the new environment, you can't just go back to your boss and say i will not change who i am and i have to force them to follow my method even though they are not equipped to do so, and then say they are all terrible and the situation is awful.

 

Even Ruud managed to get something out of them, when you look at their squad these are all players bought for 50m+, it's not like Howe having to do it with Sean Longstaff and Jacob Murphy, yet Amorim is being stubborn and INEOS hired him with no plan to back him up.

 

Its clear that the main problem are the owners but he is doing little to help himself.

[Cronky]

Whatever he's trying to do in terms of a new system, I don't see the point of telling the world that this is possibly the worst Man United side ever. It's not going to inspire the players at all, and it also isn't true. They have a good squad that should be challenging for the European places.

 

There's a reckless aspect to his statements that make me wonder whether, deep down, he's in two minds about whether he wants to stay. 

[54]

The thing I find most interesting about Amorims comments yesterday was that it was so downtrodden, and negative, even if it is brutally honest (Which I admire him for tbh). They'd just come of a three game unbeaten streak, having put in positive performances at Anfield and the Emirates, and even if I think they where lucky against Southampton, they still showed the resolve at the end to turn it around, so there where positives in all three. This Brighton game was a set back, and was poor, but if I was the manager, i'd try and be at-least slightly uplifting, say something along the lines of "We've just had three games in which we made progress, this is a bit of a setback, but we're slowly getting better." Not come out with "This is the worst Man United team in its history, everyone is underperforming", it just feels needlessly negative when your job as a manager is to make the players confident.

[Ben]

I think Amorim will get it right if he's allowed to but getting players out and getting new ones in will cost a shit load of money, I just don't think that sort of cash is at Man Utd just now.

[Froggy]

Worth noting he didn't say it's the worst Man United side ever, he said we're being the worst Man United side ever, i.e. performing as bad as the worst Man United side ever. 

 

 

[ExiledGeordie]

The difficulty for any manager coming in for them at the moment is this mish mash of players that are left over from previous reigns. Some of ETH’s signings have been awful and just simply not worked and cost a fortune. This combined with the fact Amorim has come in halfway through the season makes it even harder for him certainly in the short term whereas getting a pre-season makes all the difference. Maybe they couldn’t get him in the summer but it seems mad looking back now giving ETH a new contract then sacking him and paying him off.

 

The Ashworth situation was an odd one too. 

 

 

Edited January 20 by ExiledGeordie

[STM]

Eddie Howe showed that you can get results in the interim before implementing your style on the side.

 

In fact, it makes much more sense to implement your style after a good run of results, when the players have some confidence.

 

I do agree that Amorim should be given time but I dont agree that he couldn't have shown flexibility. Its arrogance on his part that he'd rather the side loses but played his way, rather than got results and slowly drip fed his style.

 

He suffering from the same pigheadedness that will get Ange sacked.

 

Even though I like Amorim as a bloke, I've seen enough to suggest that this won't work out long term. 

[Troll]

This is starting to feel like the Potter/Chelsea appointment to me.  Promising but inexperienced young manager taking a job where every single thing he does is overanalysed.  I think he'd do well at a team like Brighton, but is a bit out of his depth here.

[STM]

Feels like he's trying to show a computer to a load of cavemen.

 

Give them a rock and a stick Ruben and they will be a dab hand.

 

Play 433, players in the correct position, use the pace of Amad and the skill of Fernandes on the counter, they will pick up results quickly.

[Cf]

46 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Worth noting he didn't say it's the worst Man United side ever, he said we're being the worst Man United side ever, i.e. performing as bad as the worst Man United side ever. 

 

 

 

If we're getting to the point of analysing the sentence structure to work out what he meant then it's probably best to have not said it

[Cf]

Do we think this is why Ashworth left then?

 

Just thought this appointment was a bad idea and not what the club needed and it basically made his position untenable if he didn't agree with the choice of manager?

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Cf said:

Do we think this is why Ashworth left then?

 

Just thought this appointment was a bad idea and not what the club needed and it basically made his position untenable if he didn't agree with the choice of manager?

One of the reasons from what I read yeah. The other was the data not being fit for purpose. 

[Sibierski]

6 minutes ago, Cf said:

Do we think this is why Ashworth left then?

 

Just thought this appointment was a bad idea and not what the club needed and it basically made his position untenable if he didn't agree with the choice of manager?

 

Said in the press releases, that he was moved on because he questioned Amorim approach, wanted a consistent approach across the club to help with long term recruitment (i.e. not 3 at the back just for first team) and Ratcliffe was not impressed all he could come up with as ideas were Prem based managers. Small bust up and Ratcliffe got rid.

 

I mean, Ashworth is a total knob and funny how it ended, but he's looking to be on the right side of things again, bit similar to his time here.

 

Be a bit blinkered to not think the same situation couldn't happen to Amorim. If league form doesn't take an upturn, it'll depend on how much weight Ratcliffe puts on the cups to paper over things.

[54]

I know it sounds stupid, and I'm not sure I quite believe it, but the more I think about it, in the short term Southgate may have actually not been that bad of an appointment.

 

Tactically, he's not got a whole lot, which is his biggest limiting factor, but what he has proven over multiple roles is that he can sort out the culture and psyche of a squad, and get a hell of a lot of buy in from them. So even if it was a year or two stop gap, before getting someone tactically much better, like Amorim, for him to sort out the culture and attitude of the place, it may have not been a horrible idea.

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, 54 said:

I know it sounds stupid, and I'm not sure I quite believe it, but the more I think about it, in the short term Southgate may have actually not been that bad of an appointment.

 

Tactically, he's not got a whole lot, which is his biggest limiting factor, but what he has proven over multiple roles is that he can sort out the culture and psyche of a squad, and get a hell of a lot of buy in from them. So even if it was a year or two stop gap, before getting someone tactically much better, like Amorim, for him to sort out the culture and attitude of the place, it may have not been a horrible idea.

They've basically picked the Portuguese version of ETH. highly rated manager from a second tier league with some flashes in Europe which has convinced the world he's the second coming. 

 

The appointment is a massive risk for them. 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Ashworth was binned though wasn't he? Has to be on Ratcliffe that, sacking your advisers because you don't like their advice is not a sensible strategy. 

[r0cafella]

Just now, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

Ashworth was binned though wasn't he? Has to be on Ratcliffe that, sacking your advisers because you don't like their advice is not a sensible strategy. 

Yes unofficially though. And unfortunately when you give people a lot of money this kind of behaviour is to expected. 

[AngelofTheFourth]

This is how a know their fans are dumb as rocks. You could very much get a manager who can go in and do a quick fix but it's never sustainable. They Oli did that and continuesly played an unsustainable type of football and won nothing. Ten Hags mistake was coming in with a style that was also unsustainable to be able to get quickly get the results he needed then when he tried to play his style it just didn't work. Amorim is doing the correct approach especially if they are wanting a rebuild.

[Froggy]

Just now, AngelofTheFourth said:

This is how a know their fans are dumb as rocks. You could very much get a manager who can go in and do a quick fix but it's never sustainable. They Oli did that and continuesly played an unsustainable type of football and won nothing. Ten Hags mistake was coming in with a style that was also unsustainable to be able to get quickly get the results he needed then when he tried to play his style it just didn't work. Amorim is doing the correct approach especially if they are wanting a rebuild.

 

Our fans are the ones who want Amorim to continue with his style. It's your fans who think he should change.

[Erikse]

I truly believe he was just talking about the results being terrible, and that he acknowledges that, while also saying they have to improve short term. It was a clumsy way of saying it in that case, might be due to not being his native language.

[Geogaddi]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they still won a cup this season, no matter how bad they are it could still happen, it's what they do.

[Sibierski]

11 minutes ago, Geogaddi said:

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they still won a cup this season, no matter how bad they are it could still happen, it's what they do.

 

They regularly spend like the 2nd highest amount on average across seasons, with one of the top 3 wages. Doesn't matter who is in charge, by virtue of throwing enough shit (money) at things, they will pick up cups. It's why the cup competitions are dominated by the select top clubs, despite how shit they can be.

 

Like if we got to spend another £400m, wages increased to matched top 4, we'd be winning cups regardless who is manager.

[The Fountain]

12 hours ago, Cf said:

I just don't get how a manager can come out and say "we're shit" and it not basically be a stackable offence. 

 

He's the manager. If they're shit then it's on him.

 

If it's not him then what is it? The players? That's a great way to get them on your side. The board? Always a good idea to call your boss shit. Trying to undo the effects of the previous manager? Ok maybe, but good lord there's better ways to get your point across. 

 

Can only see this ending in tears at this point. 

Howe and Emery have took over clubs in worse positions and turned them round. 

[The Fountain]

4 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

I think it makes perfect sense that Amorim doesn't get any blame. Yet. He's doing things we've been begging for for ages as well, i.e. binning the likes of Antony and Rashford and making players like Amad the focus.

 

I find his honesty refreshing, even if opposition fans find it jarring. Ten Hag was full of excuses whereas Amorim just says it how it is. If the players can't handle that, then they're not up to it. 

 

I would expect a lot of movement around transfers in the summer, and he'll get another season to improve significantly. 

 

Not going to lie and say I expected it to be this bad when he came in though.  It's worse than I expected, and we wouldn't put up with this next season after he gets a summer window to get some of his own players in.

How long do you think he should have a free pass?