Ronaldo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Should Carver take us from 9th to 17th in 5 months there's no way he'd get the job. And yet AP took us from 5th to 16th and was never in danger apparently. He didn't, though. We were 12th when he took over, finished 12th that season, 5th the next, then 16th, then 10th. That obviously constituted enough of a track record (to them) to consolidate his position as someone cheap who'd solidly maintain PL status. Carver can't emulate that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Should Carver take us from 9th to 17th in 5 months there's no way he'd get the job. And yet AP took us from 5th to 16th and was never in danger apparently. Hughton won something like 1 in 13 as caretaker and got the job permanently the next season. Is it 'let's talk rubbish' day or something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varadi Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Should Carver take us from 9th to 17th in 5 months there's no way he'd get the job. And yet AP took us from 5th to 16th and was never in danger apparently. Hughton won something like 1 in 13 as caretaker and got the job permanently the next season. Is it 'let's talk rubbish' day or something? Is it? Sorry, didn't realise Good job on getting it started though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Should Carver take us from 9th to 17th in 5 months there's no way he'd get the job. And yet AP took us from 5th to 16th and was never in danger apparently. Hughton won something like 1 in 13 as caretaker and got the job permanently the next season. Is it 'let's talk rubbish' day or something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Should Carver take us from 9th to 17th in 5 months there's no way he'd get the job. And yet AP took us from 5th to 16th and was never in danger apparently. He didn't, though. We were 12th when he took over, finished 12th that season, 5th the next, then 16th, then 10th. That obviously constituted enough of a track record to consolidate his position as someone to solidly maintain PL status. Carver can't emulate that. Carver would argue that he'd managed in a time of upheaval without having the ability to confirm his permanent position to the playing squad etc. We also got bashed by Liverpool, Sunderland etc during that drop to 16th and they'd never had a replacement lined up for the bloke so it's not unlike them to do ridiculous things. Depends which side of bed Ashley gets out of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Of course that's before you even factor in that Carver's PR sense makes Pardew look like Bill Clinton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Of course that's before you even factor in that Carver's PR sense makes Pardew look like Bill Clinton. Fair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingcrofty Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So the 25, let's name them: Krul - Crisp packet hands Elliott - Not good enough Alnwick - Not good enough Haidara - Questionable Santon - Questionable Dummett - Not good enough Janmaat - Radge Raylor - Not good enough Saylor - Not good enough Colo - Questionable Williamson - Not good enough Gouffran - Not good enough Obertan - Not good enough Siem de Jong - Unknown Abeid - Promising youngster Tiote - Questionable Sissoko - Likely to be January 2015 key sale Cabella - Questionable Anita - Questionable Colback - Questionable Ayoze - Likely to be January 2016 key sale Cisse - Dodgy knee Riviere - Not good enough Armstrong - Likely to be January 2018 key sale Ferrera - unknown I'll let you all do the squad analysis (i.e. fit / good enough / likely to be sold) for February 1st... Also include Aarons who will be January 2017 key sale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't agree that you can't believe a word of that. I don't see anything in there that is a stretch the imagination. The long term focus, the structure, the opting out of buying in January are all evident in their actions. I'm not sure he says anything that I don't think that's an outright lie there, I'll reread it again later, but I can't think of anything at first glance. I suggest you direct your attention to this section: ARE YOU GOING TO END UP WITH A YES MAN? I’m confident at the end of this process the individual will be best suited for what we’re looking for and can work within the structure we have. I don’t think anything works and you’re never going to move forward if you have ‘yes’ people in key positions. I know people label me as someone who says yes all the time but believe me, if I said yes to everything suggested I wouldn’t last very long. It doesn’t work that way. They have to challenge me, I have to challenge Mike over things – that is how management works. That’s what I expect from all of my heads of department. But do I want someone in who will continually try to change our strategy or put obstacles in our way? Clearly not. They will have to aligned with what we are doing. Outright lies. Enormous stretching of the imagination. Charnley says he doesn't want a yes man, but that the right person will be one who says "yes" to the Ashley doctrine, who says "yes" to his proscribed media role and who says "yes" to Carr's signings. You could argue that it's all true in manager-speak, but history says that the upper echelons will say whatever it takes to appease the fans and that they have admitted openly that public statements are no more than PR exercises. Being a Newastle United fan these days requires critical literacy and a sound understanding of the language of persuasion. I'm not sure. he says he wants someone to buy into their philosophy and show a united front not question the club policy in public.there is nothing wrong with that. We don't know how Pardew was behind the scenes we presume he was a yes man but we don't truly know if he questioned club policy or process in private. One of the reasons they gave for sacking Hughton was that he was too much of a push over and just accepted things. I think the picture he paints could entirely true it could also be a complete lie, but we don't know for sure, nor will we likely ever know. He is absolutely right though that surounding yourselves with yes men will get you nowhere in business, Ashley is a multi billionaire he could never have gotten that successful in business by recruiting yes men all the time, maybe NUFC is his exemption who knows. I'm quite baffled by your failure to see through the bullshit here afar, taking everything at face value without looking at the facts. Quite clearly from that statement Lee Charnley is as much a yes man as you could imagine. I know LLambias suggested that Hughton was sacked because he was too soft ("you don't know how horrible we can be"), but in reality he DID challenge their view that some of the more important players in the dressing room, the ones that made that relegation/promotion team what it was (such as Kevin Nolan and to a lesser extent Joey Barton and Andy Carroll) were expendable and held too much power. Hughton challenged them much more than Pardew ever did, they didn't like it, and he got the boot. I'm not going to disagree with you at all on that, and it would appear that I'm being a bit naive to take what they say as fact. But I'm not really saying that. I'm saying I think this communication is a step in the right direction even if the content is not everything we want it to be. I also firmly feel that they fully believe most of what they say here. Is there spin of course there is, are the words carefully chosen, considering they rarely talk to the media then of course they are. But the general gist of it is what they believe in and a lot of it makes sense; The long term planning, making sure we make the right appointment rather than a quick or fast one, supporting the manager you have and believe in (despite what we feel about the man), being prepared to make unpopular calls to preserve that long term vision and portraying a united front in public with the head coach buying into the overall vision (again even if this vision is not one we support). However there is a lot in there also that I don't agree with, the lack of succession planning, the lack of flexibility to admit you may need short term fixes like getting a better caretaker in than carver or buying/loaning a CB to get us to the end of the season still in the Prem and I'm struggling to see where our progress has been on the field in the last 4 years of Pardew. I also want to see that mission statement, and see if we are aligned to it, because we are a very profitable business or they have done a lousy job of planning and the direction needs to change because we have not progressed on the field in the time that Ashley has been at the club. In terms of yes man and Hughton: Charnley comes over to us as just a puppet for Ashley, for sure, but we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. What they clearly want is for the process and direction not to be questioned in the public arena, and Charnley knows how to stay on message. Where they came from for Hughton was perhaps that he didn't push hard enough to retain the likes of Nolan, and just accepted that situation despite believing in retaining their services and hinting in public that he did, I don't know that's pure speculation. In any organisation you can't have splits in what is shown to the public otherwise you are doomed, I don't have a problem with them looking like yes men in public as long as that's not what's going on behind the scenes and he's clearly saying that that is the case, obviously we have to trust that he's telling the truth here but as you imply we have no evidence or reason to believe him at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So the 25, let's name them: Krul - Crisp packet hands Elliott - Not good enough Alnwick - Not good enough Haidara - Questionable Santon - Questionable Dummett - Not good enough Janmaat - Radge Raylor - Not good enough Saylor - Not good enough Colo - Questionable Williamson - Not good enough Gouffran - Not good enough Obertan - Not good enough Siem de Jong - Unknown Abeid - Promising youngster Tiote - Questionable Sissoko - Likely to be January 2015 key sale Cabella - Questionable Anita - Questionable Colback - Questionable Ayoze - Likely to be January 2016 key sale Cisse - Dodgy knee Riviere - Not good enough Armstrong - Likely to be January 2018 key sale Ferrera - unknown I'll let you all do the squad analysis (i.e. fit / good enough / likely to be sold) for February 1st... Also include Aarons who will be January 2017 key sale. pretty negative overall assessment that heza, then again it depends on what they're supposed to be "good enough" for Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So the 25, let's name them: Krul - Crisp packet hands Elliott - Not good enough Alnwick - Not good enough Haidara - Questionable Santon - Questionable Dummett - Not good enough Janmaat - Radge Raylor - Not good enough Saylor - Not good enough Colo - Questionable Williamson - Not good enough Gouffran - Not good enough Obertan - Not good enough Siem de Jong - Unknown Abeid - Promising youngster Tiote - Questionable Sissoko - Likely to be January 2015 key sale Cabella - Questionable Anita - Questionable Colback - Questionable Ayoze - Likely to be January 2016 key sale Cisse - Dodgy knee Riviere - Not good enough Armstrong - Likely to be January 2018 key sale Ferrera - unknown I'll let you all do the squad analysis (i.e. fit / good enough / likely to be sold) for February 1st... Also include Aarons who will be January 2017 key sale. pretty negative overall assessment that heza, then again it depends on what they're supposed to be "good enough" for I just put the players in not the descriptions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'm not half as pessimistic about this as most on here. We already knew all the things he has said, they are the reasons we feel the club has very little ambition. He's not lying at all, he's just stating things we already knew and basically hate about how our club is run. In a way, I prefer it. I'm fairly happy with what he has said about their ideas for a new manager, not particularly happy about his time-scales or stance on player recruitment. Basically, get a decent manager in and I'll start enjoying football matches again. That's mostly what this is about for me; the quality of the football. I want to enjoy watching us play again. You've summed this up way better than I have managed, agree here. I'm coming from basically the same place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Can't help but feel it would be useful if you could believe a single word the club said about anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I've got his home address if anyone wants to send him a heads up re: the new manager Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'll have that, if you please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I've got his home address if anyone wants to send him a heads up re: the new manager Has he moved recently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmymag Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Of course that's before you even factor in that Carver's PR sense makes Pardew look like Bill Clinton. What, with his dick in some tart's mouth? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I've got his home address if anyone wants to send him a heads up re: the new manager I am guessing it is somewhere near Mike's ringpiece. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Should Carver take us from 9th to 17th in 5 months there's no way he'd get the job. Pardew wasn't even close to getting sacked despite winning 5 games in in the calendar year until October, as well as conducting himself horribly on the touch line which apparently is important to Charnley as well. Never ever rule out us going for the cheap option, even if it might just be because we're waiting another season for someone to become slightly cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Should Carver take us from 9th to 17th in 5 months there's no way he'd get the job. Pardew wasn't even close to getting sacked despite winning 5 games in in the calendar year until October, as well as conducting himself horribly on the touch line which apparently is important to Charnley as well. Never ever rule out us going for the cheap option, even if it might just be because we're waiting another season for someone to become slightly cheaper. I agree with this sentiment. Let's not forget the classic line, once we get the person we think is right we stick by them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Should Carver take us from 9th to 17th in 5 months there's no way he'd get the job. Pardew wasn't even close to getting sacked despite winning 5 games in in the calendar year until October, as well as conducting himself horribly on the touch line which apparently is important to Charnley as well. Never ever rule out us going for the cheap option, even if it might just be because we're waiting another season for someone to become slightly cheaper. I agree with this sentiment. Let's not forget the classic line, once we get the person we think is right we stick by them Also, the "promote from within" statement from one of the fans forums IIRC. The good thing about Carver is that he wouldn't get the same protection from the media that Pardew got and he'd be an even bigger train wreck so I can't see how he could possibly last an entire season. However, that'd probably mean fast tracking Beardsley's UEFA badges until the rest of next season meaning yet another write off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Should Carver take us from 9th to 17th in 5 months there's no way he'd get the job. Pardew wasn't even close to getting sacked despite winning 5 games in in the calendar year until October, as well as conducting himself horribly on the touch line which apparently is important to Charnley as well. Never ever rule out us going for the cheap option, even if it might just be because we're waiting another season for someone to become slightly cheaper. I agree with this sentiment. Let's not forget the classic line, once we get the person we think is right we stick by them Also, the "promote from within" statement from one of the fans forums IIRC. The good thing about Carver is that he wouldn't get the same protection from the media that Pardew got and he'd be an even bigger train wreck so I can't see how he could possibly last an entire season. However, that'd probably mean fast tracking Beardsley's UEFA badges until the rest of next season meaning yet another write off. If Charnley is to be believed they don't really care about media opinion. I hope you and Ronaldo are right though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Should Carver take us from 9th to 17th in 5 months there's no way he'd get the job. Pardew wasn't even close to getting sacked despite winning 5 games in in the calendar year until October, as well as conducting himself horribly on the touch line which apparently is important to Charnley as well. Never ever rule out us going for the cheap option Exactly my point. Sacking Pardew wasn't the cheap option. It's totally different with Carver. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Cant imagine for a second Carver and co would be on much money and thats presuming they dont have release clauses allowing us to make the chop cheaply. Knowing us we are probably trying to flog our coaching staff to Palace or elsewhere, to make a quick buck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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