Hatem Ben Arfa (now retired?)

[Hanshithispantz]

We saw first hand what his problems at Newcastle were, and it was that his manager refused to play him (by Pardew's own admission) because his stats weren't right, because he 'wasn't a winger', and because he didn't work hard enough in defence. For clarity this is the same manager who decided to persist with Papiss Cisse on the right wing.

 

Whatever happened at Lyon and Marseille seemingly didn't carry over, he was here for 4 year without a hint of bother until he stood up and questioned The King.

 

It's also the same manager who gave him regular starts when he was fit, over 2-3 seasons.  His stats won't have been much different then to when he was 'refused' by the manager.  As if he just suddenly had a 'eureka' moment, saw Ben Arfa's "bad" defence stats and decided to drop him, fall out with him then sell him

 

But whatever, this is getting tedious, so I'm done. You clearly won't accept any criticism aimed at him. I don't expect anything less though.

 

For the record, I'd love him back and playing on form like he did back in the day

Sorry? I will accept criticism, just not criticism based on confused logic.

 

Pardew didn't give him "regular starts when he was fit, over 2-3 seasons" for one, he would usually allow him 4-5 games if he was lucky and then drop him after a poor 45 minutes, in fact I think the start of 2012/2013 is the only time he's ever managed anywhere near double digits until he was dropped or injured. He's never been afforded an actual season in the side. As I've said the reasons Pardew has given for this are his stats, his lack of defensive application, and the fact at one point he didn't even know he was a winger. He's always been viewed as a luxury player in Pardew's eyes.

 

There's absolutely nothing to suggest it was anything other than poor management from Pardew - considering we weren't exactly consistently winning games when he was out the side - that led to him not being played, which is what eventually led to a fallout.

 

[Wullie]

I genuinely don't know how someone can follow NUFC yet at the same time be of the genuine belief that Ben Arfa was given regular starts over 2-3 seasons.

 

He's never started more than 16 league games in a season for us (even Obertan managed more). Last year he started less top flight games than a player now playing in the Turkish second division. How can anyone pay attention to the club and yet be so misinformed?

[Cronky]

I don't think anyone can say that Ben Arfa wasn't given a chance to prove himself. He had several starts, in all sorts of different positions. Pardew did try to find the right team structure to enable him to flourish.

 

The debate is about what conclusion you draw from those performances, and even that is complicated with a disciplinary issue, which was the spark that turned a problem into a crisis, and we don't have full information about that.

 

The issue which his supporters don't always face up to is that there has been a similar pattern at his previous clubs. He's admitted himself that he has a deep-rooted problem with authority, and personally I don't think he finds it easy to handle success. The minute things seem to start going well, he finds a way of screwing up. He needs a psychiatrist, not a coach.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I don't think anyone can say that Ben Arfa wasn't given a chance to prove himself. He had several starts, in all sorts of different positions. Pardew did try to find the right team structure to enable him to flourish.

 

The debate is about what conclusion you draw from those performances, and even that is complicated with a disciplinary issue, which was the spark that turned a problem into a crisis, and we don't have full information about that.

 

The issue which his supporters don't always face up to is that there has been a similar pattern at his previous clubs. He's admitted himself that he has a deep-rooted problem with authority, and personally I don't think he finds it easy to handle success. The minute things seem to start going well, he finds a way of screwing up. He needs a psychiatrist, not a coach.

 

Literally from the very first sentence, that's total rubbish.

[Wullie]

The fucking irony of Pardew's number one fan Cronky accusing people of ignoring what has happened at previous clubs.

[Tooj]

I always felt that Pardew seemed to hold Ben Arfa to different standards in comparison to other players, so because of this he never really gave him a real chance.

[Guest firetotheworks]

The fucking irony of Pardew's number one fan Cronky accusing people of ignoring what has happened at previous clubs.

 

Even dismissing previous clubs for both Pardew and Ben Arfa, it's pretty much asking us to dismiss our eyesight over the past 4 years.

[Hanshithispantz]

"I don't think anyone can say that Ben Arfa wasn't given a chance to prove himself."

 

That is genuinely hilarious, tbf.

[Hanshithispantz]

He was given a chance in the same sense that bloke in Saw was given a chance of freedom when he was handed a rusty hacksaw.

[Wullie]

Come on now Hans, he was given "several starts".

[Wullie]

How many places has MYM caused bother?  When has Mascherano been a problem in the dressing room? Such a shit excuse for a shit manager.

 

The irony is that Ba also had a history of it, and when he tried it here, Pardew bent over backwards and mangled the whole team, including the front three that HBA was bossing, to try and keep him happy. Both Ba and Cabaye behaved far worse than Ben Arfa ever has here but never found themselves out of the team for it. Tooj is right - always double standards.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I'm convinced that it's because of the type of player that he is and that he's 'mercurial' (ugh)

[The College Dropout]

After any slump in form or even a half - HBA would be benched. Pardew has his blue-chip brigade and HBA was never in that bracket.

 

A blue chip Pardew player runs a lot, "works hard", probably a "lad", helps if they are tall, strong or very fast. He tends to decide pretty early on too. Some players he never truly trusts. HBA, Marv, Anita & MYM for sure. Sissoko's form is up and down like a yo-yo. He's a big strong fast lad, he starts every game he's fit for.

 

Lads like Haidara, Anita & Marveaux will need to play out of their skin to do anything worthwhile here. At least he seems to have faith in Cabella.

[Wullie]

So much faith in Cabella that he was favouring both Obertan and Gouffran as recently as last month.

[The College Dropout]

So much faith in Cabella that he was favouring both Obertan and Gouffran as recently as last month.

HBA had to win a few games by himself before he got a run of games. Marveaux only ever started when we had many injuries otherwise he was the obligatory "wild card" from the bench.

 

No way HBA plays like Cabella and gets as much game time.

[KaKa]

Will be fascinating to see where he moves on a free in the summer. Will probably be Lyon, as they were talking about having him back if the deal was right last summer.

[Darth Crooks]

You can't make any solid conclusions on any player under the tenure of Alan pardew. His man management is that abysmal as has been at every club he's been at to the extreme of shagging a players wife. When other players are sent out en mass with him for similar reasons you can't simply label it as bad apple behaviour. Quite frankly the cabaye going on strike thing was disgusting yet both HBA's critics and pardew would have him on the team sheet with the first stroke of the pen. Hypocrites all.

[Robster]

The fucking irony of Pardew's number one fan Cronky accusing people of ignoring what has happened at previous clubs.

:lol:

[AlanSkÃrare]

You can't make any solid conclusions on any player under the tenure of Alan pardew.

 

This is basically what makes many things with regards to NUFC uninteresting. It all starts and ends with him.

[Interpolic]

The fucking irony of Pardew's number one fan Cronky accusing people of ignoring what has happened at previous clubs.

 

[Mattoon]

I think it's always been obvious that Ben Arfa was the one who stood up to Pardew and questioned his shit football when the cloggers kept their heads down. How anyone could question the Kings authority is a mystery to him, so he was frozen out and lied about (we know they do this, they've admitted as much).

To say he was given a decent crack? Joke! In different positions? Hoiked out on the left and vilified for not being able to play in the wrong position. He'd never flourish in a Pardew team, too much of a "luxury" player for a defensive outfit. Bruce will never get the best out of him either.

If he'd have had the chance to work for someone like Keegan or Sir Bobby all you doubters would be drooling over him.

[Kanj]

FWIW Ben Arfa would have worked his bollocks off doing whatever Keegan and Sir Bobby told him. They'd equally get him believing to do what it takes wherever on the pitch b/c they'd have put an arm around him and joked with him at how easy it is for him to round players and cause havoc.

 

IMO, Ben Arfa seems exactly the player who will run through a wall for you if you just treated him the right way and believed in him. Know that he has his "bad" and "good" days

[Hanshithispantz]

The fucking irony of Pardew's number one fan Cronky accusing people of ignoring what has happened at previous clubs.

 

This point cannot be emphasised enough like. It's get completely ignored like, but aye.

[The College Dropout]

FWIW Ben Arfa would have worked his bollocks off doing whatever Keegan and Sir Bobby told him. They'd equally get him believing to do what it takes wherever on the pitch b/c they'd have put an arm around him and joked with him at how easy it is for him to round players and cause havoc.

 

IMO, Ben Arfa seems exactly the player who will run through a wall for you if you just treated him the right way and believed in him. Know that he has his "bad" and "good" days

I don't think he would be a work horse for them but his work-ethic wasn't tremendously poor in any case. Those managers would've dealt with a bit of defensive slacking and accepted a few under-performing games which is more important.

[Hughesy]

I actually think the supposed lack of work rate from HBA was one of those myths that built up without any real evidence.  I always thought he worked pretty hard for the team to be honest.  I genuinely can't think of many matches where he neglected his defensive duties to the extent people claim he did.