Hatem Ben Arfa (still a free agent)

[Guest firetotheworks]

You're still not understanding the Ben Arfa one are you? Literally no one has said he was better, what some people are saying is that he was as, if not more, naturally gifted, that's literally it.

[Guest firetotheworks]

some people man Cabaye better than Rob Lee, Ben arfa  better than Beardsley FFS.  Rob Lee is the best midfielder we have had in 30 years bar none

 

Speed.

Nowhere near either.

[tmonkey]

Ben Arfa > Robert and Ginola imo. Robert was a better winger, Ginola a more classy footballer, but Ben Arfa imo was the better playmaker. Greater ability to cut teams open consistently from nothing positions so much so that giving the ball to Ben Arfa and having him beat one, two or three players was at times our only gameplan beyond hoofball. Also, Ben Arfa had:

 

- a serious leg break;

- mediocre teammates compared to the Sir Bobby/Keegan teams, meaning if he didn't have a good game it would stand out like a sore thumb (e.g. Robert had plenty of poor/anonymous/frustrating performances where he'd be selfish and blast the ball into row Z, constantly hit the first man with his crosses, dribble into brick walls etc, but who remembers it if Nobby/Bellamy/Dyer/Shearer/etc are winning you games?);

- a genuinely terrible manager in Pardew (whereas the others had Sir Bobby and Keegan) who scapegoated him at every opportunity, constantly dropping him or moving him around and trying stupid anti-opposition tactics. How often did Ben Arfa play as a front 3? Not often, and the rare time we did we went on a 11+ game unbeaten streak playing decent free flowing football for once. That's about two to three months out of 4+ years where Ben Arfa was played in a position/system that suited him;

- played in a team where the primary tactic was to launch it into the skies, so he'd be watching the ball sail over his head constantly;

- was rarely played in his best position (winger in a front 3).

 

And despite all of this he had a better goals to games ratio than Ginola and a similar goals:games ratio to Robert. Robert had significantly better crossing/free kick technique, and somewhat better shooting, and many of Robert's goals were free kicks. Yet Hatem matches him in goals despite a leg break, despite terrible management, piss poor teammates by comparison, having to do everything solo, etc etc? That should tell you just how dangerous a player Ben Arfa was in open play.

[John P]

The mere suggestion that Cabaye was better than Rob Lee is absolutely mental like.

[tmonkey]

Cabaye's passing and shooting technique was superior to Rob Lee's, but technique is only theoretical in the sense that it doesn't mean it's consistently applied since players can frequently fail to apply the technique they do have due to e.g. pressure, form, etc - it's one of my pet peeves with Matt Ritchie, he has good shooting/crossing technique but frequently flops opportunities. Felt like Cabaye only really hit 3 months worth of genuine top quality form whilst in an NUFC shirt too,.

 

Lee had much better movement, mobility, stamina, dribbling/ball carrying, and significantly greater consistency in applying the good technique he had. In a free flowing passing side Lee is comfortably the better player imo.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Ginola was probably the most in-form player in the world from August til December '95, man.

 

Geordie Dean, I take my earlier post back. This is all nuts.

 

[Crumpy Gunt]

Still waxing lyrical over HBA?

 

After all this time?

 

Really?

[Guest firetotheworks]

Gan wax ye clit, ye fanny.

[SEMTEX]

Yes, now fuck off back to your hole.

[SEMTEX]

I mean,

 

10 lessons please!

 

[/disco]

[Rich]

HBA or Tony Green?

[Crumpy Gunt]

HBA or Tony Green?

 

Obviously with the  average age of folk posting on this thread will be asking Tony who?

 

Massive shame Tony green played in that era where his injury was a career ender. Lejeun will be back on 6/8 months from similar.

[Rich]

HBA or Tony Green?

 

Obviously with the  average age of folk posting on this thread will be asking Tony who?

 

Massive shame Tony green played in that era where his injury was a career ender. Lejeun will be back on 6/8 months from similar.

 

Would your answer be Green then, Crumps? Only saw bits and bobs of him on old footage.

[Crumpy Gunt]

HBA or Tony Green?

 

Obviously with the  average age of folk posting on this thread will be asking Tony who?

 

Massive shame Tony green played in that era where his injury was a career ender. Lejeun will be back on 6/8 months from similar.

 

Would your answer be Green then, Crumps? Only saw bits and bobs of him on old footage.

Green more like gazza but on attitude alone I'd go for green everytime.

[Shearergol]

HBA or Tony Green?

 

Obviously with the  average age of folk posting on this thread will be asking Tony who?

 

Massive shame Tony green played in that era where his injury was a career ender. Lejeun will be back on 6/8 months from similar.

 

Would your answer be Green then, Crumps? Only saw bits and bobs of him on old footage.

Green more like gazza but on attitude alone I'd go for green everytime.

 

Still waxing lyrical over Green?

 

After all this time?

 

Really?

[Away Toon]

Tony Green was an amazing player, I'm not sure I've seen anyone with his skill level playing for us, HBA would be the closest, then Gazza and Beardsley. Jimmy Smith was extremely talented too.

[Sima]

Absolutely ridiculous claiming cabaye was better than rob lee

 

[Pons Alias]

Are we talking effectiveness or talent?

 

For me, Ginola was the most naturally talented player I've seen play for us. Followed by Asprilla and Robert, probably.

 

The most effective and consistent Midfielder we've had was probably Rob Lee.

[loki679]

Rob Lee was a great player in his prime, I'd easily have him over cabaye.

[geordiedean]

some people man Cabaye better than Rob Lee, Ben arfa  better than Beardsley FFS.  Rob Lee is the best midfielder we have had in 30 years bar none

 

Speed.

 

Gary Speed God bless his soul was good but no where near as good as Rob Lee was

[Newcastle Fan]

Is he not planning to play football anymore?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Cabaye when at his best, was better than Rob Lee at his best IMO. I know people don't hold Cabaye in high regard but at times he was absolutely phenomenal.

 

Ridiculous, Viana was a better player than Cabaye man, although didn’t have the better time here. Lee was a great player, vastly underrated.

[Incognito]

Rob Lee should have got so many more caps. He was awesome, whether on the right flank or through the middle, he had the lot.

[triggs]

Never saw Rob Lee so don’t have an opinion on that but the Premier League as a whole is of a much higher quality now than it was in the mid 90’s so comparing players from the two eras is hard

[Guest firetotheworks]

I get the whole eras are different thing, but if you think about it, if you put a player from whenever into a team now they'd just adapt to the increased pace, better diet etc, and I think the same goes for players now playing back then. Imo aside from the players who were/are a product of their era, e.g. Billy Bremner, or, I dunno, Joe Allen then it probably evens itself out.

 

Rob Lee's definitely in that category for me, purely because he was good at just about every side of the game. Fairly quick, a good passer, good finisher, good from distance, fairly two-footed, decent tackler, very good in the air, strong, good control, good dribbler, intelligent. If he was on PES he'd have almost a perfect hexagon.