Crystal Palace manager

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

If fucking Mike Williamson is suited to the premier league then MYM was too, regardless of what the stats say I saw him improving game on game (when he was actually given a chance)

 

If the HBA rumours are true it was indeed Pardew who kicked off the feud after the Man Utd game.

 

Anita seems shite, but had he been given a proper run and role in the team from the off he might have had a chance to adapt and stake a claim.

[cubaricho]

MYM is not suited to the Premiership.

Anita is no better than Jack Colback.

 

You are just so, so wrong, like always.

[ads]

Santon? Santon started 90% of the matches he was available for until his phantom injury. Even during really poor spells of form.

MYM is not suited to the Premiership. I can't find where they have the stats from but he must lose a significant portion of aerial duals.

Anita is no better than Jack Colback.

That leaves HBA & Marveaux. HBA's a proven difficult character in the dressing room. From what I've gathered the "leaders" of the dressing room wanted him out more than Pardew.

 

Like I say Marveaux and perhaps Cabella are the only genuine gripes.

 

MYM isn't suited to the Premiership? Why? Because to succeed in it you have to be a big, clumsy cunt like Williamson? MYM could have been an incredible player for us if given time to adapt rather than being the scapegoat the majority of the time.

[St1pe]

Pardew failed here primarily because the club were signing talented technical footballers from the continent for him - the type of player he doesn't want, appreciate, trust, or know how to use. The lack of investment in terms of total spend, or the timing of players sold/brought in, has far less to do with Pardew's failings and miserable records and more to do with his inability to adapt to having a different type of player to manager than what he's used to. By the end of his tenure here he had driven out practically all of the talented footballers, having misused them or benched them with no justification, or the few he did well with were held back by his tactics (doing well in spite of the limitations he brought to the team). Every one of these players couldn't wait to get away from Pardew and his horrendous approach to games, make no mistake about that, and we're now suffering for having Pardew here as we have the remains of a decent squad filled which is now filled with mediocre players who shouldn't be anywhere near a Premiership first team.

 

When we finished 5th under Pardew, we did so because at a time when results and performances were starting to dip Pardew stumbled onto a formation and lineup that "clicked" and had our best players playing in their best positions. By the end of that season he switched away from that formation/lineup for no good reason and then never went back to it, not once, out of pure pride/arrogance. His cockiness the following season as the Manager of the Year award got to his head resulted in the team playing "his way", and we ended up with the same team that finished 5th nearly getting relegated by playing some of the most ugly, cowardly, negative hoofball I've ever witnessed an NUFC team play.

 

Pardew is, imo, the person ultimately responsible for Mike Ashley's policy of wanting to be mid table and no higher. I think the original intention was to finish mid table as a minimum - now it's mid table and no higher, and that's a seemingly subtle but actually massive difference. In some ways I can understand not bothering about the cups, as they're firmly second tier competitions and getting into the CL is far more important to the growth of the club than winning the FA Cup (even if a trophy is what most of our fans want). But not wanting to finish as high as possible is insanity (in addition to not bothering with the cups) - and I don't think Mike Ashley ever started out with that intention. When we finished 5th the club seemed to be delighted with both the high finish and the European qualification, even releasing a statement iirc saying so and rewarding Pardew with an 8 year contract - if Ashley had already decided that Europe was bad, we'd have thrown a number of games and rested/benched key players to avoid qualification. We didn't because Mike Ashley, who knows little about football, had no policy about it yet. Fast forward 12 months and the club slowly transitioned from "yay we're in Europe" to "f***ing Europe, it's a curse" - why? Because that's what Pardew sold to anyone and every who would listen, including no doubt an irate Ashley who would not have been happy at the team going from 5th to near relegation in successive seasons. Pardew, being a pretty decent spin doctor and looking to save his own skin, is the one who used the challenges associated with continental football as an excuse for awful form/performances domestically (which were in turn down to his hoofball instructions and stubborn refusal to pick the best team in the best formation with the best players in their best position). He's the one who kept on bemoaning the additional games and the affect it had on domestic form (even if he was lying about players being tired given that we often played the B team in the league format of the games). He's the one who kept referring to stats about teams in Europe don't do well in domestic competitions.

 

As much as I hate Ashley, I hate Pardew more. I feel as though Ashley, as disgusting a human being as he is, would not logically have been dead set against European qualification give the considerable additional income it generates (especially the CL), and the fact that it'd mean more international coverage for Craps Direct. He was at a crossroad, and Pardew made sure Ashley went down a path of misinformation that now ensures we never qualify for Europe as long as he owns the club. That is Pardew's legacy at NUFC.

 

Deserves to be quoted again.

 

I find this particularly comforting when so many people seem to now be claiming we were wrong to sack him.

[The College Dropout]

I would hesitate to say that without Pardew we would be an ambitious club (far from it), but it was during his reign that we transitioned into a worthless husk, and it's pretty likely he had more to do with it than what was plainly visible.

Agreed on the first part. But I believe that's why he was brought in.  To be a puppet.  If he had his way we would've signed a target man and a bullish CB. His influence was minimal but I guess we'll never know for sure. 

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Anita could be ticking over nicely in a functioning team who know how to pass and move.

 

MYM is quality and definitely should be playing. He was never given a fair chance so any stats about aerial duels etc are completely meaningless. Colo was appalling in the air when he first arrived, I remember Alan Smith having to stand in front of him and head the ball away.

 

Anyway, we've done these arguments to death, I love technical and intelligent players so I will admit I'm a bit biased towards those two.

 

I'm not saying our squad was perfect but the talent we have wasted is absolutely criminal.

[The College Dropout]

Colo's still awful in the air and we continue to suffer as a result. I would've preferred MYM replaced Colo but i've shed no tears to see him leave. Janmaat looks more suited to that position in the PL than MYM.

 

MYM won 43% of his aerial duels which is somehow less than Colo last season. You won't find a genuinely quality CB losing the majority of his aerial duels.

[Cronky]

Pardew failed here primarily because the club were signing talented technical footballers from the continent for him - the type of player he doesn't want, appreciate, trust, or know how to use. The lack of investment in terms of total spend, or the timing of players sold/brought in, has far less to do with Pardew's failings and miserable records and more to do with his inability to adapt to having a different type of player to manager than what he's used to. By the end of his tenure here he had driven out practically all of the talented footballers, having misused them or benched them with no justification, or the few he did well with were held back by his tactics (doing well in spite of the limitations he brought to the team). Every one of these players couldn't wait to get away from Pardew and his horrendous approach to games, make no mistake about that, and we're now suffering for having Pardew here as we have the remains of a decent squad filled which is now filled with mediocre players who shouldn't be anywhere near a Premiership first team.

 

When we finished 5th under Pardew, we did so because at a time when results and performances were starting to dip Pardew stumbled onto a formation and lineup that "clicked" and had our best players playing in their best positions. By the end of that season he switched away from that formation/lineup for no good reason and then never went back to it, not once, out of pure pride/arrogance. His cockiness the following season as the Manager of the Year award got to his head resulted in the team playing "his way", and we ended up with the same team that finished 5th nearly getting relegated by playing some of the most ugly, cowardly, negative hoofball I've ever witnessed an NUFC team play.

 

Pardew is, imo, the person ultimately responsible for Mike Ashley's policy of wanting to be mid table and no higher. I think the original intention was to finish mid table as a minimum - now it's mid table and no higher, and that's a seemingly subtle but actually massive difference. In some ways I can understand not bothering about the cups, as they're firmly second tier competitions and getting into the CL is far more important to the growth of the club than winning the FA Cup (even if a trophy is what most of our fans want). But not wanting to finish as high as possible is insanity (in addition to not bothering with the cups) - and I don't think Mike Ashley ever started out with that intention. When we finished 5th the club seemed to be delighted with both the high finish and the European qualification, even releasing a statement iirc saying so and rewarding Pardew with an 8 year contract - if Ashley had already decided that Europe was bad, we'd have thrown a number of games and rested/benched key players to avoid qualification. We didn't because Mike Ashley, who knows little about football, had no policy about it yet. Fast forward 12 months and the club slowly transitioned from "yay we're in Europe" to "f***ing Europe, it's a curse" - why? Because that's what Pardew sold to anyone and every who would listen, including no doubt an irate Ashley who would not have been happy at the team going from 5th to near relegation in successive seasons. Pardew, being a pretty decent spin doctor and looking to save his own skin, is the one who used the challenges associated with continental football as an excuse for awful form/performances domestically (which were in turn down to his hoofball instructions and stubborn refusal to pick the best team in the best formation with the best players in their best position). He's the one who kept on bemoaning the additional games and the affect it had on domestic form (even if he was lying about players being tired given that we often played the B team in the league format of the games). He's the one who kept referring to stats about teams in Europe don't do well in domestic competitions.

 

As much as I hate Ashley, I hate Pardew more. I feel as though Ashley, as disgusting a human being as he is, would not logically have been dead set against European qualification give the considerable additional income it generates (especially the CL), and the fact that it'd mean more international coverage for Craps Direct. He was at a crossroad, and Pardew made sure Ashley went down a path of misinformation that now ensures we never qualify for Europe as long as he owns the club. That is Pardew's legacy at NUFC.

 

Sorry for quoting this lads but it deserves to be on every page of an al pards thread.

 

Excellent post tmonkey man :clap:

 

Brilliant post indeed - can this not be the last comment on the subject and just lock it?

 

Free speech, yay!

[Guest firetotheworks]

Whether MYM, Anita or Marveaux or Ben Arfa are this that or the other - not suited to the premier league, weak, lazy, trouble etc - the point will always stand that the alternatives were the likes of Mike Williamson, Jonas Gutierrez, Dan Gosling, Shola Ameobi, Ryan Taylor and Gabriel Obertan and way more often than not, they were picked ahead of those being criticised. All teams need balance, but again, more often than not our balance was grossly weighted in favour of Pardew's cloggy, route one, defensive, hold-on-for-dear-life 'tactics'.

 

All players have weaknesses, not least ones that play for a team with the player signing policy that we do. But there's no way anyone can sit there and post about why the likes of MYM, Anita, Marveaux, Ben Arfa, Cabella etc aren't the best thing around, when the alternatives were some of the worst around.

 

As for Anita being no better than Jack Colback, that's just laughable tbh. One is a player who went through the Ajax ranks and plays generally average or badly in a two, but well in a three. The other was a continuous starter for a team constantly battling relegation and plays generally average or badly in a two or a three.

[Darth Crooks]

The arguments against these players are mind boggling when you think of how weak the stand ins are/have been. People are living in cloud cuckoo land.

[Ikon]

Die Pardew...

[mrmojorisin75]

I'm not sure Pardew could be responsible for the whole ambition of the club, although I agree his inability to get the most out of his players might have led Ashley (who already didn't really care) to accept lower finishes even more easily.

 

Did Pardew have some amazing mind control over Ashley? If Ashley really wanted to finish as high as possible he could just have fired Pardew and got a decent manager.

 

Don't doubt for one second that Ashley listened to Pardew. He listened to Kinnear. Pardew kept everything in order for him, the four years he was at the club are probably Ashley's favourite period of owning us.

Pardew managed to single-handedly convince our entire  fanbase he wasn't completely shite for years ffs. I'm sure he could convince a know nothing like Ashley that we should cut our cloth and were not able to compete unless we spend more.  That'll be it in a nutshell, he'll have been at Ashley time and again saying mid table is all I can do without investment and it'll have become truth over time.

[The College Dropout]

You'll not be able to compete consistently while playing in Europe unless you have a squad like Spurs.

[TRon]

It was strange yesterday as Palace were really aggressive second half. They played direct with two widemen and then Murray and Bolasie up top in a fairly simple big man-little man combo. We played a slightly more sophisticated version of it under Bobby but it can be really effective when done right.

 

Unfortunately Pardew never attempted to play anything like that with us.

 

To be honest, Ashley could easily have given Pardew the players he wanted to create a direct football team similar to Palace, but those sort of teams tend to run out of steam once the adrenaline fades. The likes of Stoke, West Ham and Palace could be as high as 4th in the league if they are having a decent season, but then battling relegation the next. Plus you won't have good teams looking to buy your better players if you fill the side with cloggers. Despite our shit results, we've continued to make massive profits on our players due to buying technically gifted ones for the most part. When Janmaat goes it will probably be for £10m. I doubt anyone will be offering us that for Dummett no matter how hard he tackles.

[mrmojorisin75]

You'll not be able to compete consistently while playing in Europe unless you have a squad like Spurs.

 

We couldn't even do it once under Pardiola man, it was a wrecking ball to the entire season. One Jose Bosingwa from going down (sort of).

[BottledDog]

Anyone who tries to argue with me about this c*** in the future, is getting that first paragraph of tmonkeys post slapped in their face.

 

 

Brilliant.

 

 

But the first paragraph as I read it is saying is that the club brought in a certain type of limited manager, then gave him the wrong tools to work with. That's not really much of an argument against Pardew (beyond highlighting some of his failings that the board continued to ignore), it's an attack on the people that hired him.

 

As for the rest, the idea that Pardew is the mastermind behind the mantra of mediocrity just seems bonkers to me. He served up no end of shit but I presume like any other egotistical manager he want's to have a fairly decent legacy have some success to look back on rather than sit on a pundits sofa and trot out tails of balance sheets. In interviews since he left, it is his records in the cups that he brings up and says hurt the most. Whatever excuses he gives for those records, it seems fairly telling.

 

Sure you can dismiss anything he says as rubber lipped bollocks, and he may have put up with the penny pinching, player sales, and suggested priorities to keep himself in a job he was lucky to get in the first place... but he was quick enough to jump ship for the chance of personal glory at his struggling home town club as soon as his reputation was on a downward spiral here. Not only because of his own clear failings and the protests and anger that he rightly suffered towards the end, but because of his association with an unambitious and toxic regime that was increasingly the focus of the national media.

[mrmojorisin75]

Anyone who tries to argue with me about this c*** in the future, is getting that first paragraph of tmonkeys post slapped in their face.

 

 

Brilliant.

 

 

But the first paragraph as I read it is saying is that the club brought in a certain type of limited manager, then gave him the wrong tools to work with. That's not really much of an argument against Pardew (beyond highlighting some of his failings that the board continued to ignore), it's an attack on the people that hired him.

 

As for the rest, the idea that Pardew is the mastermind behind the mantra of mediocrity just seems bonkers to me. He served up no end of shit but I presume like any other egotistical manager he want's to have a fairly decent legacy have some success to look back on rather than sit on a pundits sofa and trot out tails of balance sheets. In interviews since he left, it is his records in the cups that he brings up and says hurt the most. Whatever excuses he gives for those records, it seems fairly telling.

 

Sure you can dismiss anything he says as rubber lipped bollocks, and he may have put up with the penny pinching and suggested priorities to keep himself in a job he was lucky to get in the first place, but he was quick enough to jump ship for the chance of personal glory at his struggling home town club as soon as his reputation was on a downward spiral here. Not only because of his own clear failings, but because of his association with an unambitious and toxic regime that was increasingly the focus of the national media.

.

 

Almost every word that came out of his mouth was either a pre-emptive excuse in case of defeat or an excuse to absolve him of blame for an actual defeat. Unless we won of course, in which case he did it all.

 

Seems commonly accepted wisdom that Ashley and co know sweet fuck all about football, so if they're listening to the paid professional tell them we can't compete that mantra will catch on, and it obviously did.

[Dave]

https://vine.co/v/MJ5UtrF1J7Q

[The College Dropout]

Anyone who tries to argue with me about this c*** in the future, is getting that first paragraph of tmonkeys post slapped in their face.

 

 

Brilliant.

 

 

But the first paragraph as I read it is saying is that the club brought in a certain type of limited manager, then gave him the wrong tools to work with. That's not really much of an argument against Pardew (beyond highlighting some of his failings that the board continued to ignore), it's an attack on the people that hired him.

 

As for the rest, the idea that Pardew is the mastermind behind the mantra of mediocrity just seems bonkers to me. He served up no end of s*** but I presume like any other egotistical manager he want's to have a fairly decent legacy have some success to look back on rather than sit on a pundits sofa and trot out tails of balance sheets. In interviews since he left, it is his records in the cups that he brings up and says hurt the most. Whatever excuses he gives for those records, it seems fairly telling.

 

Sure you can dismiss anything he says as rubber lipped bollocks, and he may have put up with the penny pinching, player sales, and suggested priorities to keep himself in a job he was lucky to get in the first place... but he was quick enough to jump ship for the chance of personal glory at his struggling home town club as soon as his reputation was on a downward spiral here. Not only because of his own clear failings and the protests and anger that he rightly suffered towards the end, but because of his association with an unambitious and toxic regime that was increasingly the focus of the national media.

 

This is it. He's a poor manager but it's not in his own interst for us to be mediocre when he was in charge.

[Carlito]

https://vine.co/v/MJ5UtrF1J7Q

 

[mrmojorisin75]

Anyone who tries to argue with me about this c*** in the future, is getting that first paragraph of tmonkeys post slapped in their face.

 

 

Brilliant.

 

 

But the first paragraph as I read it is saying is that the club brought in a certain type of limited manager, then gave him the wrong tools to work with. That's not really much of an argument against Pardew (beyond highlighting some of his failings that the board continued to ignore), it's an attack on the people that hired him.

 

As for the rest, the idea that Pardew is the mastermind behind the mantra of mediocrity just seems bonkers to me. He served up no end of s*** but I presume like any other egotistical manager he want's to have a fairly decent legacy have some success to look back on rather than sit on a pundits sofa and trot out tails of balance sheets. In interviews since he left, it is his records in the cups that he brings up and says hurt the most. Whatever excuses he gives for those records, it seems fairly telling.

 

Sure you can dismiss anything he says as rubber lipped bollocks, and he may have put up with the penny pinching, player sales, and suggested priorities to keep himself in a job he was lucky to get in the first place... but he was quick enough to jump ship for the chance of personal glory at his struggling home town club as soon as his reputation was on a downward spiral here. Not only because of his own clear failings and the protests and anger that he rightly suffered towards the end, but because of his association with an unambitious and toxic regime that was increasingly the focus of the national media.

 

This is it. He's a poor manager but it's not in his own interst for us to be mediocre when he was in charge.

 

What? Who said it was in his interests?

 

He got 5th then managed us so badly thew following season he should have been sacked, no doubt about it. Instead he used the extra games as an excuse to hide his own absolute mismanagement and people let him away with being shite. It then became a thing for him until he left, can't compete with INSERT BULLSHIT HERE and so on.

 

He didn't have the players he wanted and as a result was utterly terrible, his bullshit saved his hide, there's nothing else to it.

[BottledDog]

Anyone who tries to argue with me about this c*** in the future, is getting that first paragraph of tmonkeys post slapped in their face.

 

 

Brilliant.

 

 

But the first paragraph as I read it is saying is that the club brought in a certain type of limited manager, then gave him the wrong tools to work with. That's not really much of an argument against Pardew (beyond highlighting some of his failings that the board continued to ignore), it's an attack on the people that hired him.

 

As for the rest, the idea that Pardew is the mastermind behind the mantra of mediocrity just seems bonkers to me. He served up no end of shit but I presume like any other egotistical manager he want's to have a fairly decent legacy have some success to look back on rather than sit on a pundits sofa and trot out tails of balance sheets. In interviews since he left, it is his records in the cups that he brings up and says hurt the most. Whatever excuses he gives for those records, it seems fairly telling.

 

Sure you can dismiss anything he says as rubber lipped bollocks, and he may have put up with the penny pinching, player sales, and suggested priorities to keep himself in a job he was lucky to get in the first place... but he was quick enough to jump ship for the chance of personal glory at his struggling home town club as soon as his reputation was on a downward spiral here. Not only because of his own clear failings and the protests and anger that he rightly suffered towards the end, but because of his association with an unambitious and toxic regime that was increasingly the focus of the national media.

 

Almost every word that came out of his mouth was either a pre-emptive excuse in case of defeat or an excuse to absolve him of blame for an actual defeat. Unless we won of course, in which case he did it all.

 

Seems commonly accepted wisdom that Ashley and co know sweet fuck all about football, so if they're listening to the paid professional tell them we can't compete that mantra will catch on, and it obviously did.

 

Nah, I accept that. Couldn't stand his little team against the world bullshit that became a creeping feature over his tenure (something that should suit him at Palace, though he seems to have a new found bluster about him at the minute). Absolute vile attitude to have at Newcastle, but difficult to avoid with this lot and the risky threadbare squads they provide. Carver comes across in much the same way. Keegan said we'd get nowhere near the top when he was in charge, and nowhere full stop after he left.

 

The board and Charnley, Wise, and every other bugger were all about managing expectations and keeping the heat off Ashley. Pardew has admitted he defended the club wrongly at times. As I said, he was lucky to get the job at the time, and for me there was no doubt that taking the heat, accepting sales and playing down the clubs fighting chances was an obligation/condition pushed on him from above. The negativity just naturally increased whenever he found himself in trouble.

[The College Dropout]

If Fat Mike was willing to sign a £10m purple every time we qualified for Europe and we tried to keep our existing players' I reckon Pardew's attitude would be different. But he knew if we qualified for Europe we wouldn't reinforce in the summer - we wouldn't have the squad depth for Europe. Given his lack of ability we would be heading for another relegation battle.

 

In the following 2 seasons by Christmas we where decently placed for a European push. We decided to sell our best player the first time. Then decided to hire John Carver as manager the second time and try and sell Moussa Sissoko. The club is a joke because of Mike Ashley.

[Incognito]

If Fat Mike was willing to sign a £10m purple every time we qualified for Europe and we tried to keep our existing players' I reckon Pardew's attitude would be different. But he knew if we qualified for Europe we wouldn't reinforce in the summer - we wouldn't have the squad depth for Europe. Given his lack of ability we would be heading for another relegation battle.

 

In the following 2 seasons by Christmas we where decently placed for a European push. We decided to sell our best player the first time. Then decided to hire John Carver as manager the second time and try and sell Moussa Sissoko. The club is a joke because of Mike Ashley.

 

If that was the case, then a professional with pride in his work would've walked away, and would  have been well within his rights to do so. Pardew actually did the opposite and waxed lyrically about how happy he was with the squad,at the time.

[The College Dropout]

It's quite clear the man has no self-respect. That's not up for debate. It speaks volumes for his situation that he left to join a team 1 point above/below the relegation zone with 7 or 8 of the players that got them promoted still in the first team.