Guest firetotheworks Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Whether MYM, Anita or Marveaux or Ben Arfa are this that or the other - not suited to the premier league, weak, lazy, trouble etc - the point will always stand that the alternatives were the likes of Mike Williamson, Jonas Gutierrez, Dan Gosling, Shola Ameobi, Ryan Taylor and Gabriel Obertan and way more often than not, they were picked ahead of those being criticised. All teams need balance, but again, more often than not our balance was grossly weighted in favour of Pardew's cloggy, route one, defensive, hold-on-for-dear-life 'tactics'. All players have weaknesses, not least ones that play for a team with the player signing policy that we do. But there's no way anyone can sit there and post about why the likes of MYM, Anita, Marveaux, Ben Arfa, Cabella etc aren't the best thing around, when the alternatives were some of the worst around. As for Anita being no better than Jack Colback, that's just laughable tbh. One is a player who went through the Ajax ranks and plays generally average or badly in a two, but well in a three. The other was a continuous starter for a team constantly battling relegation and plays generally average or badly in a two or a three. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The arguments against these players are mind boggling when you think of how weak the stand ins are/have been. People are living in cloud cuckoo land. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Die Pardew... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm not sure Pardew could be responsible for the whole ambition of the club, although I agree his inability to get the most out of his players might have led Ashley (who already didn't really care) to accept lower finishes even more easily. Did Pardew have some amazing mind control over Ashley? If Ashley really wanted to finish as high as possible he could just have fired Pardew and got a decent manager. Don't doubt for one second that Ashley listened to Pardew. He listened to Kinnear. Pardew kept everything in order for him, the four years he was at the club are probably Ashley's favourite period of owning us. Pardew managed to single-handedly convince our entire fanbase he wasn't completely shite for years ffs. I'm sure he could convince a know nothing like Ashley that we should cut our cloth and were not able to compete unless we spend more. That'll be it in a nutshell, he'll have been at Ashley time and again saying mid table is all I can do without investment and it'll have become truth over time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 You'll not be able to compete consistently while playing in Europe unless you have a squad like Spurs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 It was strange yesterday as Palace were really aggressive second half. They played direct with two widemen and then Murray and Bolasie up top in a fairly simple big man-little man combo. We played a slightly more sophisticated version of it under Bobby but it can be really effective when done right. Unfortunately Pardew never attempted to play anything like that with us. To be honest, Ashley could easily have given Pardew the players he wanted to create a direct football team similar to Palace, but those sort of teams tend to run out of steam once the adrenaline fades. The likes of Stoke, West Ham and Palace could be as high as 4th in the league if they are having a decent season, but then battling relegation the next. Plus you won't have good teams looking to buy your better players if you fill the side with cloggers. Despite our shit results, we've continued to make massive profits on our players due to buying technically gifted ones for the most part. When Janmaat goes it will probably be for £10m. I doubt anyone will be offering us that for Dummett no matter how hard he tackles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 You'll not be able to compete consistently while playing in Europe unless you have a squad like Spurs. We couldn't even do it once under Pardiola man, it was a wrecking ball to the entire season. One Jose Bosingwa from going down (sort of). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Anyone who tries to argue with me about this c*** in the future, is getting that first paragraph of tmonkeys post slapped in their face. Brilliant. But the first paragraph as I read it is saying is that the club brought in a certain type of limited manager, then gave him the wrong tools to work with. That's not really much of an argument against Pardew (beyond highlighting some of his failings that the board continued to ignore), it's an attack on the people that hired him. As for the rest, the idea that Pardew is the mastermind behind the mantra of mediocrity just seems bonkers to me. He served up no end of shit but I presume like any other egotistical manager he want's to have a fairly decent legacy have some success to look back on rather than sit on a pundits sofa and trot out tails of balance sheets. In interviews since he left, it is his records in the cups that he brings up and says hurt the most. Whatever excuses he gives for those records, it seems fairly telling. Sure you can dismiss anything he says as rubber lipped bollocks, and he may have put up with the penny pinching, player sales, and suggested priorities to keep himself in a job he was lucky to get in the first place... but he was quick enough to jump ship for the chance of personal glory at his struggling home town club as soon as his reputation was on a downward spiral here. Not only because of his own clear failings and the protests and anger that he rightly suffered towards the end, but because of his association with an unambitious and toxic regime that was increasingly the focus of the national media. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Anyone who tries to argue with me about this c*** in the future, is getting that first paragraph of tmonkeys post slapped in their face. Brilliant. But the first paragraph as I read it is saying is that the club brought in a certain type of limited manager, then gave him the wrong tools to work with. That's not really much of an argument against Pardew (beyond highlighting some of his failings that the board continued to ignore), it's an attack on the people that hired him. As for the rest, the idea that Pardew is the mastermind behind the mantra of mediocrity just seems bonkers to me. He served up no end of shit but I presume like any other egotistical manager he want's to have a fairly decent legacy have some success to look back on rather than sit on a pundits sofa and trot out tails of balance sheets. In interviews since he left, it is his records in the cups that he brings up and says hurt the most. Whatever excuses he gives for those records, it seems fairly telling. Sure you can dismiss anything he says as rubber lipped bollocks, and he may have put up with the penny pinching and suggested priorities to keep himself in a job he was lucky to get in the first place, but he was quick enough to jump ship for the chance of personal glory at his struggling home town club as soon as his reputation was on a downward spiral here. Not only because of his own clear failings, but because of his association with an unambitious and toxic regime that was increasingly the focus of the national media. . Almost every word that came out of his mouth was either a pre-emptive excuse in case of defeat or an excuse to absolve him of blame for an actual defeat. Unless we won of course, in which case he did it all. Seems commonly accepted wisdom that Ashley and co know sweet fuck all about football, so if they're listening to the paid professional tell them we can't compete that mantra will catch on, and it obviously did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 https://vine.co/v/MJ5UtrF1J7Q Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Anyone who tries to argue with me about this c*** in the future, is getting that first paragraph of tmonkeys post slapped in their face. Brilliant. But the first paragraph as I read it is saying is that the club brought in a certain type of limited manager, then gave him the wrong tools to work with. That's not really much of an argument against Pardew (beyond highlighting some of his failings that the board continued to ignore), it's an attack on the people that hired him. As for the rest, the idea that Pardew is the mastermind behind the mantra of mediocrity just seems bonkers to me. He served up no end of s*** but I presume like any other egotistical manager he want's to have a fairly decent legacy have some success to look back on rather than sit on a pundits sofa and trot out tails of balance sheets. In interviews since he left, it is his records in the cups that he brings up and says hurt the most. Whatever excuses he gives for those records, it seems fairly telling. Sure you can dismiss anything he says as rubber lipped bollocks, and he may have put up with the penny pinching, player sales, and suggested priorities to keep himself in a job he was lucky to get in the first place... but he was quick enough to jump ship for the chance of personal glory at his struggling home town club as soon as his reputation was on a downward spiral here. Not only because of his own clear failings and the protests and anger that he rightly suffered towards the end, but because of his association with an unambitious and toxic regime that was increasingly the focus of the national media. This is it. He's a poor manager but it's not in his own interst for us to be mediocre when he was in charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlito Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 https://vine.co/v/MJ5UtrF1J7Q Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Anyone who tries to argue with me about this c*** in the future, is getting that first paragraph of tmonkeys post slapped in their face. Brilliant. But the first paragraph as I read it is saying is that the club brought in a certain type of limited manager, then gave him the wrong tools to work with. That's not really much of an argument against Pardew (beyond highlighting some of his failings that the board continued to ignore), it's an attack on the people that hired him. As for the rest, the idea that Pardew is the mastermind behind the mantra of mediocrity just seems bonkers to me. He served up no end of s*** but I presume like any other egotistical manager he want's to have a fairly decent legacy have some success to look back on rather than sit on a pundits sofa and trot out tails of balance sheets. In interviews since he left, it is his records in the cups that he brings up and says hurt the most. Whatever excuses he gives for those records, it seems fairly telling. Sure you can dismiss anything he says as rubber lipped bollocks, and he may have put up with the penny pinching, player sales, and suggested priorities to keep himself in a job he was lucky to get in the first place... but he was quick enough to jump ship for the chance of personal glory at his struggling home town club as soon as his reputation was on a downward spiral here. Not only because of his own clear failings and the protests and anger that he rightly suffered towards the end, but because of his association with an unambitious and toxic regime that was increasingly the focus of the national media. This is it. He's a poor manager but it's not in his own interst for us to be mediocre when he was in charge. What? Who said it was in his interests? He got 5th then managed us so badly thew following season he should have been sacked, no doubt about it. Instead he used the extra games as an excuse to hide his own absolute mismanagement and people let him away with being shite. It then became a thing for him until he left, can't compete with INSERT BULLSHIT HERE and so on. He didn't have the players he wanted and as a result was utterly terrible, his bullshit saved his hide, there's nothing else to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Anyone who tries to argue with me about this c*** in the future, is getting that first paragraph of tmonkeys post slapped in their face. Brilliant. But the first paragraph as I read it is saying is that the club brought in a certain type of limited manager, then gave him the wrong tools to work with. That's not really much of an argument against Pardew (beyond highlighting some of his failings that the board continued to ignore), it's an attack on the people that hired him. As for the rest, the idea that Pardew is the mastermind behind the mantra of mediocrity just seems bonkers to me. He served up no end of shit but I presume like any other egotistical manager he want's to have a fairly decent legacy have some success to look back on rather than sit on a pundits sofa and trot out tails of balance sheets. In interviews since he left, it is his records in the cups that he brings up and says hurt the most. Whatever excuses he gives for those records, it seems fairly telling. Sure you can dismiss anything he says as rubber lipped bollocks, and he may have put up with the penny pinching, player sales, and suggested priorities to keep himself in a job he was lucky to get in the first place... but he was quick enough to jump ship for the chance of personal glory at his struggling home town club as soon as his reputation was on a downward spiral here. Not only because of his own clear failings and the protests and anger that he rightly suffered towards the end, but because of his association with an unambitious and toxic regime that was increasingly the focus of the national media. Almost every word that came out of his mouth was either a pre-emptive excuse in case of defeat or an excuse to absolve him of blame for an actual defeat. Unless we won of course, in which case he did it all. Seems commonly accepted wisdom that Ashley and co know sweet fuck all about football, so if they're listening to the paid professional tell them we can't compete that mantra will catch on, and it obviously did. Nah, I accept that. Couldn't stand his little team against the world bullshit that became a creeping feature over his tenure (something that should suit him at Palace, though he seems to have a new found bluster about him at the minute). Absolute vile attitude to have at Newcastle, but difficult to avoid with this lot and the risky threadbare squads they provide. Carver comes across in much the same way. Keegan said we'd get nowhere near the top when he was in charge, and nowhere full stop after he left. The board and Charnley, Wise, and every other bugger were all about managing expectations and keeping the heat off Ashley. Pardew has admitted he defended the club wrongly at times. As I said, he was lucky to get the job at the time, and for me there was no doubt that taking the heat, accepting sales and playing down the clubs fighting chances was an obligation/condition pushed on him from above. The negativity just naturally increased whenever he found himself in trouble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 If Fat Mike was willing to sign a £10m purple every time we qualified for Europe and we tried to keep our existing players' I reckon Pardew's attitude would be different. But he knew if we qualified for Europe we wouldn't reinforce in the summer - we wouldn't have the squad depth for Europe. Given his lack of ability we would be heading for another relegation battle. In the following 2 seasons by Christmas we where decently placed for a European push. We decided to sell our best player the first time. Then decided to hire John Carver as manager the second time and try and sell Moussa Sissoko. The club is a joke because of Mike Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 If Fat Mike was willing to sign a £10m purple every time we qualified for Europe and we tried to keep our existing players' I reckon Pardew's attitude would be different. But he knew if we qualified for Europe we wouldn't reinforce in the summer - we wouldn't have the squad depth for Europe. Given his lack of ability we would be heading for another relegation battle. In the following 2 seasons by Christmas we where decently placed for a European push. We decided to sell our best player the first time. Then decided to hire John Carver as manager the second time and try and sell Moussa Sissoko. The club is a joke because of Mike Ashley. If that was the case, then a professional with pride in his work would've walked away, and would have been well within his rights to do so. Pardew actually did the opposite and waxed lyrically about how happy he was with the squad,at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 It's quite clear the man has no self-respect. That's not up for debate. It speaks volumes for his situation that he left to join a team 1 point above/below the relegation zone with 7 or 8 of the players that got them promoted still in the first team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ando says the difference is he has players that run around. Marco reckons it's because he has more Brits :groan: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ando says the difference is he has players that run around. Marco reckons it's because he has more Brits :groan: Quality analysis from a quality station Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I wonder which media outlet will be the first to employ a person as a pundit that actually knows about football rather than some washed up ex player that clearly knows nothing of players or formations Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 http://metro.co.uk/2015/04/13/ignore-crystal-palace-why-newcastle-united-still-better-off-without-alan-pardew-5147084/ At least someone is out there writing the stuff along the right lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 http://metro.co.uk/2015/04/13/ignore-crystal-palace-why-newcastle-united-still-better-off-without-alan-pardew-5147084/ At least someone is out there writing the stuff along the right lines. "In indomitable Pardew style, which some would call arrogance, he recently claimed that he would do a better job than the likes of Jose Mourinho, Arsène Wenger, Brendan Rodgers, Louis van Gaal, as well as City manager Manuel Pellegrini at the Barclay’s Premier League’s top sides." Missed this. What exactly did he say? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Don't have exact words, but something along the lines of he could do a better job at a top 4 club than any of the current ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Who cares? I don't get why a lot of this place is so obsessed with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Don't have exact words, but something along the lines of he could do a better job at a top 4 club than any of the current ones. aye, got that much thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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