buzza Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I just can't believe anyone is even disputing the fact that he IS A CONVICTED RAPIST, it actually sickens me that society has such low moral standards that people can even bring doubt into this argument. The facts sicken me: Bloke picks up extremely drunk girl, boasts about it on whassup or whatever to his mates Asks one of them to come over and take advantage with him (because it wouldn't happen if she wasn't in that state) Other mate comes along and shags her whilst she is completely senseless. I would even have the other guy in prison for colluding , or instigating the sick incident. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm of two minds as to whether he should be allowed to play again. On the one hand I'd find it very hard to support my team if it had a convicted rapist on it. On the other, the whole point of jailing people is to have them rehabilitate and rejoin society. How do we achieve that if we decide that certain offenders should never be allowed to do anything of import even after serving their time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Surely he has every right to call it infidelity though? Just because he was convicted in a court of law doesn't mean he has to accept it and I don't think there's enough evidence out there for us to say without any trepidation that "it was rape." The jury decided it was but that's hardly water tight. If it is true though and she was in a state, although what he did would have been rape by the very definition of the word, there's a completely different mentality behind what he would have done and what we would usually classify as rape. I just don't think this is the monstrous crime it's been painted as in the media, it's been seen as rape (which again by the very definition of the word it would be) and that's that, Ched Evans is a RAPIST. Ched Evans is a monster etc. Again I'm not trying to play down what he's done (if it's true), I just think for what he's been accused of he's served a sentence which more than covers for the crime and should be allowed to get on with his life. RAPIST though, it'll always stick, rightly or wrongly. We have to rely on the legal system, though. He has been through the legal process, tried, found guilty and convicted. He even had the right to an appeal turned down. Evans and another bloke had sex with a woman too drunk to consent whilst two other men watched. That is the top and bottom of it. Calling it infidelity just makes it sound like what it would be if you or I started shagging someone behind our partner's back. Evans can call it what he likes, but that doesn't mean that is what it is. Somewhere there is the victim listening to this, or maybe there are other women who have been raped and scared to go to the police about it, being put off by Evans's brushing it off as infidelity. CCTV footage of the evening apparently showed she could barely stand, she was so off her face. He might not think he's raped anyone, but the law thinks otherwise. I can't help but think that, if he came to terms with what had happened and stopped trying to minimise it, people might be more understanding in allowing him to rebuild his life. Why do we have to rely upon the legal system in this instance? I mean obviously yes, in the grand scheme of things our society has to, but when it's still questionable there's no reason to... How is it questionable? It isn't. By the definition of what our legal system defines as rape, there's no question here. Whether or not he plays again is a different argument, and I can see both sides of that, but have no doubt about it, Ched Evans is a convicted rapist, no matter what spin he wants to put on it. I can't see any situation in which there is no reason to rely on the legal system in cases like these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyn davies Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Regardless of the whether or not, alot of high profile people are potentially leaving themselves open to being sued by preventng the guy from working for a living. If he was Joe Bloggs down the street would there be as much grief and the answer is no, if he was done for drunk driving would he be in this situation,no he would'nt be as has been proven in the past.The guy has done his time therefore let him get back to work.Employment law states there is no reason why he shouldn't return back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Regardless of the whether or not, alot of high profile people are potentially leaving themselves open to being sued by preventng the guy from working for a living. If he was Joe Bloggs down the street would there be as much grief and the answer is no, if he was done for drunk driving would he be in this situation,no he would'nt be as has been proven in the past.The guy has done his time therefore let him get back to work.Employment law states there is no reason why he shouldn't return back. He's welcome to work again. Why does it have to be football? If no club wants him, tough, get down the job centre. Nobody's preventing him from working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Regardless of the whether or not, alot of high profile people are potentially leaving themselves open to being sued by preventng the guy from working for a living. If he was Joe Bloggs down the street would there be as much grief and the answer is no, if he was done for drunk driving would he be in this situation,no he would'nt be as has been proven in the past.The guy has done his time therefore let him get back to work.Employment law states there is no reason why he shouldn't return back. He's on the sex offender's register. I think Joe Bloggs Sex Offender Register would probably not be guaranteed to walk back into the same role he was in before, particularly if that role was as an entertainer - which is basically what footballers are. You don't just play on the field, you do signings, publicity events, community stuff, you're the face of the sponsors of the kit. Is Rolf Harris going to walk out in 5 years and start suing people because he's not welcome on Animal Hospital any more? If you're a drunk driver and you're a barman or a footballer, you can probably go back into your own profession. If you're a taxi driver or an MP you might not find it so easy. That's life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 The prick should be locked up for life for what he did, he is lower than scum, how anyone drunk or otherwise could get enjoyment from fucking basically a sleeping person is betond me. I hope the cunt breaks both his legs and neck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 He hasn't actually finished his sentence, and his family and girlfriend are still harassing the victim through social media, YouTube videos etc. that alone makes it impossible for me to give him any support. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 The prick should be locked up for life for what he did, he is lower than scum, how anyone drunk or otherwise could get enjoyment from fucking basically a sleeping person is betond me. I hope the cunt breaks both his legs and neck! Thought I was on the Daily Mail comments for a minute there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Just as a comparison in sport: When Oscar Pistorius got his sentence, the Paralympics body said he won't be allowed to compete for his whole sentence, even though he gets out of jail in a year or so. Sport should take the same approach for all offenders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henke Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Difficult situation. I criminal having served his sentence should be given a break, but this despicable cunt shows absolutely no remorse and if I were a Sheffield United fan I'd want nothing to do with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I don't think he should legally be prevented from working again, but on the other hand I don't think any club should go near him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 The prick should be locked up for life for what he did, he is lower than scum, how anyone drunk or otherwise could get enjoyment from fucking basically a sleeping person is betond me. I hope the cunt breaks both his legs and neck! Can I just point out that there is absolutely no evidence that either bloke had sex with her while she was sleeping or unconscious, in fact there is evidence that this was not the case (from the night porter who was listening outside the room). Nor is there any suggestion that the sex was actively against her will. The only question was whether or not she was so pissed that she was incapable of giving consent. An expert witness at the trial estimated from the amount that she drank throughout the night, that at the time of the incident she would have been about 2½ times over the drink drive limit, (which I believe for the average woman would be the equivalent to the state they'd be in after drinking around 3 large wines). Apparently she was capable of texting her mates, capable of buying a pizza with the correct change, capable of picking up the bloke and inviting herself to his hotel, capable of remembering she'd left her pizza outside and nipping out for it (while being supposedly barely capable of standing), but subsequently - without having anything more to drink - incapable of offering consent. I can only hope that noone on here has ever had casual sex with a woman who has had any more than a couple of glasses of wine, otherwise I guess they too should be considered rapists if the woman subsequently can't remember what happened. I also hope the police are actively pursuing any other men this woman may have slept with on other occasions where she would "normally and regularly drink well in excess of what she had consumed on this particular night out." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozy Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Hypothetically speaking, if his impending appeal is successful, I wonder what the reaction of all the Sheffield United patrons and associates will be. Would they apologise to Evans, the club and whoever? I doubt it, because in their eyes he would still be guilty, regardless of the outcome of the appeal. It's silly to blindly trust the justice system and then label people based on the outcome of a 12 man jury, especially where the convicted continues to profess and fight against it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 The prick should be locked up for life for what he did, he is lower than scum, how anyone drunk or otherwise could get enjoyment from f***ing basically a sleeping person is betond me. I hope the c*** breaks both his legs and neck! Can I just point out that there is absolutely no evidence that either bloke had sex with her while she was sleeping or unconscious, in fact there is evidence that this was not the case (from the night porter who was listening outside the room). Nor is there any suggestion that the sex was actively against her will. The only question was whether or not she was so p*ssed that she was incapable of giving consent. An expert witness at the trial estimated from the amount that she drank throughout the night, that at the time of the incident she would have been about 2½ times over the drink drive limit, (which I believe for the average woman would be the equivalent to the state they'd be in after drinking around 3 large wines). Apparently she was capable of texting her mates, capable of buying a pizza with the correct change, capable of picking up the bloke and inviting herself to his hotel, capable of remembering she'd left her pizza outside and nipping out for it (while being supposedly barely capable of standing), but subsequently - without having anything more to drink - incapable of offering consent. I can only hope that noone on here has ever had casual sex with a woman who has had any more than a couple of glasses of wine, otherwise I guess they too should be considered rapists if the woman subsequently can't remember what happened. I also hope the police are actively pursuing any other men this woman may have slept with on other occasions where she would "normally and regularly drink well in excess of what she had consumed on this particular night out." You've seemed to hit the nail on the head more then Evans' defence team Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 UV is God. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Toony™® Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 He hasn't actually finished his sentence, and his family and girlfriend are still harassing the victim through social media, YouTube videos etc. that alone makes it impossible for me to give him any support. Technically speaking according to todays justice system a day/night counts as 2 days applies to all fellons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I just can't believe anyone is even disputing the fact that he IS A CONVICTED RAPIST, it actually sickens me that society has such low moral standards that people can even bring doubt into this argument. The facts sicken me: Bloke picks up extremely drunk girl, boasts about it on whassup or whatever to his mates Asks one of them to come over and take advantage with him (because it wouldn't happen if she wasn't in that state) Other mate comes along and shags her whilst she is completely senseless. I would even have the other guy in prison for colluding , or instigating the sick incident. Not a single person is disputing the fact that he is a convicted rapist at all, to do so would be utterly moronic, what with him actually being a convicted rapist and that. The point is wether or not he should be alliwed to continue on with his proffession after serving his time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Needs to be allowed to get on with his life. He's made a mistake and he's paid for it and will for the rest of his time in the public arena. That is punishment enough. The rest is all media film flam and the narrative will move on in a few months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 In the OP Dave asked "Should football take him back?" In black and white, the answer has to be yes - the whole "done his time" bullshit principle has to stand. However, the poll question "Should Sheffield United (or any other club) take him back?" is a different question altogether. He's contracted to Sheffield United, so they have to make a decision - and like we did with Nile Ranger, Joey Barton and Lee Bowyer (amongst others), the question isn't a moral one anymore. These days it's a financial decision, the result of a cost-benefit analysis. Is having Ched Evans scoring goals for the Blades worth the negative impact on the brand, the potential alienation of female fans, potential dressing-room issues? It brings into question wyn davies' post about denying the right to work. If Sheffield United cancelled his contract but held onto his registration (to prevent him from being signed by a rival) then Evans might have grounds to sue, but I'd back a lawyer to successfully argue that Sheffield United's action was legal. If he was free to sign for someone else, then those clubs would have to make the same cost benefit analysis - except Evans would be in a weaker negotiating position, which would mean more clubs could afford him, and the lower down the pyramid he goes then the more chance he would be worth the negative impact on the brand, the potential alienation of female fans, potential dressing-room issues. So (for example) while NUFC would be in the luxurious position of saying "no" without much thought, Darlington or Gateshead might have a tougher decision to make... Morally, a whole different question again - and it seems that many here are discussing the moral principles as opposed to the two questions posed by the OP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemagpie Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 This idea that other professions would welcome back a convicted rapist is bollocks. If he wants a job let him sweep the streets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Vaguely remember seeing a poster on the metro that said something along the lines of 'if you have sex with someone who is drunk then they cannot give consent' I'd have to look back at it but that concept is terrifying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 The prick should be locked up for life for what he did, he is lower than scum, how anyone drunk or otherwise could get enjoyment from fucking basically a sleeping person is betond me. I hope the cunt breaks both his legs and neck! Can I just point out that there is absolutely no evidence that either bloke had sex with her while she was sleeping or unconscious, in fact there is evidence that this was not the case (from the night porter who was listening outside the room). Nor is there any suggestion that the sex was actively against her will. The only question was whether or not she was so pissed that she was incapable of giving consent. An expert witness at the trial estimated from the amount that she drank throughout the night, that at the time of the incident she would have been about 2½ times over the drink drive limit, (which I believe for the average woman would be the equivalent to the state they'd be in after drinking around 3 large wines). Apparently she was capable of texting her mates, capable of buying a pizza with the correct change, capable of picking up the bloke and inviting herself to his hotel, capable of remembering she'd left her pizza outside and nipping out for it (while being supposedly barely capable of standing), but subsequently - without having anything more to drink - incapable of offering consent. I can only hope that noone on here has ever had casual sex with a woman who has had any more than a couple of glasses of wine, otherwise I guess they too should be considered rapists if the woman subsequently can't remember what happened. I also hope the police are actively pursuing any other men this woman may have slept with on other occasions where she would "normally and regularly drink well in excess of what she had consumed on this particular night out." Having researched it this is my take too. I said something similar on Facebook and soon abandoned ship as women went mad saying "rape is rape" but I think it's clearly different between a man who attacks someone in a dark alley vs drunk "consent" The appeal will be interesting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 in fact there is evidence that this was not the case (from the night porter who was listening outside the room). It's a very sound argument UV but I would definitely like to know more about how the porter just happened to have his ear to a door trying to listen to people having sex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Brought up what was mentioned in UV's post to a female friend. "So you think it's okay to rape someone?" " What the fuck man! No, I'm questioning whether it was actually rape. That's the whole point" "So you're defending rape?" "Am gan home" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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