Wallsendmag Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 I never take all that much interest in the financial side of football but does this mean the club debt has now reduced by £33m or has it remained the same because in the past when he's taken money out of the club the debt seems to have either remained stable or even increased? Either way we're being bled dry and there's nowt we can do about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Due to admin fees we're now in even more debt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 I never take all that much interest in the financial side of football but does this mean the club debt has now reduced by £33m or has it remained the same because in the past when he's taken money out of the club the debt seems to have either remained stable or even increased? Either way we're being bled dry and there's nowt we can do about it. We've been in debt to Ashley ever since he bought the club (£111m). We became £33m further in debt to him when he injected that amount to aid running costs during the most recent Championship season. That's what has been paid back to him recently, but the original debt from when he first arrived still remains and will do until the club sells. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Or so he says. As pointed out, he also said Rafa could have every penny generated by the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Due to admin fees we're now in even more debt. We’re not in debt. He owns the club, it’s his debt not the clubs. A club can’t be in debt to it’s owner, that’s just bullshit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Zaius Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Due to admin fees we're now in even more debt. We’re not in debt. He owns the club, it’s his debt not the clubs. A club can’t be in debt to it’s owner, that’s just bullshit How cant it? St James holdings and Mike Ashley are two different entities? If the club owes Mike Ashley x amount and it is sold, it will still have to pay back whatever it owes to Mike Ashley with the agreed interest and payment structure. EDIT: I mean thats probably not how it works at all like, just the way I understood it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Due to admin fees we're now in even more debt. We’re not in debt. He owns the club, it’s his debt not the clubs. A club can’t be in debt to it’s owner, that’s just bullshit I don't know about you, but I learned everything I need to know about finance from the internet. I'm a bit of an expert. Due to booking fees, and your cheek, we're now in even more debt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Due to admin fees we're now in even more debt. We’re not in debt. He owns the club, it’s his debt not the clubs. A club can’t be in debt to it’s owner, that’s just bullshit Wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 was it ever 100% clarified that the £300m fantasy asking price included the debt he's owed btw? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon25 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Does this cunt just invent the figures to make the media think we ought to be grateful for keeping us going? I’m no expert, but it’s fucking dodgy. Sure there must be some sort if book cooking going on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Due to admin fees we're now in even more debt. We’re not in debt. He owns the club, it’s his debt not the clubs. A club can’t be in debt to it’s owner, that’s just bullshit Wrong. How so? Nobody owns the club other than Mike Ashley. On a balance sheet it can be shown as debt but when the debt is to the owner it’s just accounting bollocks. If I spend £10k putting a new kitchen in, my house isn’t in debt to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Due to admin fees we're now in even more debt. We’re not in debt. He owns the club, it’s his debt not the clubs. A club can’t be in debt to it’s owner, that’s just bullshit Wrong. How so? Nobody owns the club other than Mike Ashley. On a balance sheet it can be shown as debt but when the debt is to the owner it’s just accounting bollocks. If I spend £10k putting a new kitchen in, my house isn’t in debt to me. Well of course not. What a ridiculous analogy. That would just be you buying something for your house out of your personal funds. If Ashley had done similar to that when NUFC had to pay off the existing loans then there would be no debt. He didn't and I don't think anyone would have expected him to do so. However, had he simply refinanced the debt with a bank we would have likely paid it all off by now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Due to admin fees we're now in even more debt. We’re not in debt. He owns the club, it’s his debt not the clubs. A club can’t be in debt to it’s owner, that’s just bullshit Wrong. How so? Nobody owns the club other than Mike Ashley. On a balance sheet it can be shown as debt but when the debt is to the owner it’s just accounting bollocks. If I spend £10k putting a new kitchen in, my house isn’t in debt to me. Well of course not. What a ridiculous analogy. That would just be you buying something for your house out of your personal funds. If Ashley had done similar to that when NUFC had to pay off the existing loans then there would be no debt. He didn't and I don't think anyone would have expected him to do so. However, had he simply refinanced the debt with a bank we would have likely paid it all off by now. Right, so you buy a business, for example a coffee shop. You work out the coffee machine needs replacing for £4K so you buy one. Is the coffee shop then gonna be in debt to you, or just worth £4K more? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Btw, I understand the technicalities of our debt. I just think it’s bullshit that our owner sees it that way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Due to admin fees we're now in even more debt. We’re not in debt. He owns the club, it’s his debt not the clubs. A club can’t be in debt to it’s owner, that’s just bullshit Wrong. How so? Nobody owns the club other than Mike Ashley. On a balance sheet it can be shown as debt but when the debt is to the owner it’s just accounting bollocks. If I spend £10k putting a new kitchen in, my house isn’t in debt to me. Well of course not. What a ridiculous analogy. That would just be you buying something for your house out of your personal funds. If Ashley had done similar to that when NUFC had to pay off the existing loans then there would be no debt. He didn't and I don't think anyone would have expected him to do so. However, had he simply refinanced the debt with a bank we would have likely paid it all off by now. Right, so you buy a business, for example a coffee shop. You work out the coffee machine needs replacing for £4K so you buy one. Is the coffee shop then gonna be in debt to you, or just worth £4K more? Again, this is utterly stupid because this isn't what has happened here. That would be the case if Ashley had just given the money to club to pay off the bank debt as a gift. He didn't. If you loan the coffee shop £4k from either yourself or one of your other businesses and expect that money to be paid back, then yes it is a debt. If you gift the coffee shop the £4k then no it isn't a debt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Due to admin fees we're now in even more debt. We’re not in debt. He owns the club, it’s his debt not the clubs. A club can’t be in debt to it’s owner, that’s just bullshit Wrong. How so? Nobody owns the club other than Mike Ashley. On a balance sheet it can be shown as debt but when the debt is to the owner it’s just accounting bollocks. If I spend £10k putting a new kitchen in, my house isn’t in debt to me. Well of course not. What a ridiculous analogy. That would just be you buying something for your house out of your personal funds. If Ashley had done similar to that when NUFC had to pay off the existing loans then there would be no debt. He didn't and I don't think anyone would have expected him to do so. However, had he simply refinanced the debt with a bank we would have likely paid it all off by now. Right, so you buy a business, for example a coffee shop. You work out the coffee machine needs replacing for £4K so you buy one. Is the coffee shop then gonna be in debt to you, or just worth £4K more? Again, this is utterly stupid because this isn't what has happened here. That would be the case if Ashley had just given the money to club to pay off the bank debt as a gift. He didn't. If you loan the coffee shop £4k from either yourself or one of your other businesses and expect that money to be paid back, then yes it is a debt. If you gift the coffee shop the £4k then no it isn't a debt. But you own the coffee shop, so you own the debt? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 They are different entities. Just like you can't (shouldn't) just use the coffee shop funds to buy holidays and booze (unless a legitimate business expense) - you pay yourself a wage or a dividend from the coffee shop business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 If your business needs a new coffee machine there is no debt involved as its replacing a now defunct coffee machine. Its an investment if anything, or just factored into the 'wear and tear' upkeep cycle of any business. But to break things down into their simplest terms. Ashley is a cunt. Which nicely explains everything I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Of all the things to criticise Ashley for, providing the club with an interest free loan isn't one of them. What he's done isn't shady accounting or anything like that, it's one of the few (only?) things he's done that's beneficial to the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Of all the things to criticise Ashley for, providing the club with an interest free loan isn't one of them. What he's done isn't shady accounting or anything like that, it's one of the few (only?) things he's done that's beneficial to the club. Well, actually it really is. It is like a noose around the neck of the club. If he refinanced on the same terms as the existing loan it would have entirely been paid off by now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 The whole debate's entirely inconsequential mind; the agreed selling price will be for Ashley's equity & debt stakes in the club. The £111m debt would be cleared, with the remaining consideration being for his shareholdings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hhtoon Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Due to admin fees we're now in even more debt. We’re not in debt. He owns the club, it’s his debt not the clubs. A club can’t be in debt to it’s owner, that’s just bullshit Wrong. How so? Nobody owns the club other than Mike Ashley. On a balance sheet it can be shown as debt but when the debt is to the owner it’s just accounting bollocks. If I spend £10k putting a new kitchen in, my house isn’t in debt to me. Well of course not. What a ridiculous analogy. That would just be you buying something for your house out of your personal funds. If Ashley had done similar to that when NUFC had to pay off the existing loans then there would be no debt. He didn't and I don't think anyone would have expected him to do so. However, had he simply refinanced the debt with a bank we would have likely paid it all off by now. Right, so you buy a business, for example a coffee shop. You work out the coffee machine needs replacing for £4K so you buy one. Is the coffee shop then gonna be in debt to you, or just worth £4K more? Again, this is utterly stupid because this isn't what has happened here. That would be the case if Ashley had just given the money to club to pay off the bank debt as a gift. He didn't. If you loan the coffee shop £4k from either yourself or one of your other businesses and expect that money to be paid back, then yes it is a debt. If you gift the coffee shop the £4k then no it isn't a debt. But you own the coffee shop, so you own the debt? Dude, just Google the difference between a limited company and a sole trader. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Of all the things to criticise Ashley for, providing the club with an interest free loan isn't one of them. What he's done isn't shady accounting or anything like that, it's one of the few (only?) things he's done that's beneficial to the club. Well, actually it really is. It is like a noose around the neck of the club. If he refinanced on the same terms as the existing loan it would have entirely been paid off by now. Disagree. Can't remember when the loan was taken, but with interest that's about £12m of cash outflows annually over 10 years, at time's when we've hardly been flush with cash. Perfectly happy for it to sit on the balance sheet and be factored into any selling price tbh. Ultimately though it barely matters how we're financed, with owners so devoid of ambition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Of all the things to criticise Ashley for, providing the club with an interest free loan isn't one of them. What he's done isn't shady accounting or anything like that, it's one of the few (only?) things he's done that's beneficial to the club. Well, actually it really is. It is like a noose around the neck of the club. If he refinanced on the same terms as the existing loan it would have entirely been paid off by now. Disagree. Can't remember when the loan was taken, but with interest that's about £12m of cash outflows annually over 10 years, at time's when we've hardly been flush with cash. Perfectly happy for it to sit on the balance sheet and be factored into any selling price tbh. Ultimately though it barely matters how we're financed, with owners so devoid of ambition. The original debt was considerably lower than what it is now, caused due to his own incompetence leading to relegation. Even with his £33m taken back. It makes no difference in the day to day running of the club I agree, but it certainly has an impact on any sale price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Of all the things to criticise Ashley for, providing the club with an interest free loan isn't one of them. What he's done isn't shady accounting or anything like that, it's one of the few (only?) things he's done that's beneficial to the club. Well, actually it really is. It is like a noose around the neck of the club. If he refinanced on the same terms as the existing loan it would have entirely been paid off by now. Disagree. Can't remember when the loan was taken, but with interest that's about £12m of cash outflows annually over 10 years, at time's when we've hardly been flush with cash. Perfectly happy for it to sit on the balance sheet and be factored into any selling price tbh. Ultimately though it barely matters how we're financed, with owners so devoid of ambition. The original debt was considerably lower than what it is now, caused due to his own incompetence leading to relegation. It makes no difference in the day to day running of the club I agree, but it certainly has an impact on any sale price. Oh aye, agree totally on the first point. Just think the actual terms of the loan are surprisingly decent, especially by his standards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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