Troll Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Of course fans aren't "to blame" but anyone who continues to fund it has <b>zero reason to complain</b>. None. They know what their money is going towards and they give him it anyway. The fan base as a collective can accelerate his departure by not turning up en masse but they have made a choice to do the opposite and keep him here. Everyone has exactly the same rights and reasons to complain if they want to. Just because you don't go to the games (and I have only been to a few this season myself - both through lack of interest, other more important things to do etc) it does not automatically give you more right to complain. Just because you feel like you're doing something to "make a stand". The whole argument is so fucking high and mighty man. It's embarrassing. I didn't want to pack in my season ticket and sacrifice ten years worth of loyalty points, I did it because it was the right thing to do, because funding Mike Ashley is damaging to Newcastle United. How the fuck is it "high and mighty" to believe that people who keep paying top dollar for a shit product (that they know is shit and which admits its ambition is to be shit) can't complain when they receive a shit product? But again thats you're opinion, people have differing opinions, for some people it might not be as easy, they've supported a team since birth, and they want to continue to do that, they want to go to the game and support the team. It's not simply a product to them, it's something people have a connection to, that they hold dear to there heart, so they go to the game with the hope so seeing something memorable, that they can tell there kids one day. That's what a team should be, that's what this club used to be to all of us. But it absolutely is a product now, and that's because Ashley's turned it into one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 This is the reason football fans are so easy to exploit and reluctant to turn against their club, it's not just a product to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Of course fans aren't "to blame" but anyone who continues to fund it has <b>zero reason to complain</b>. None. They know what their money is going towards and they give him it anyway. The fan base as a collective can accelerate his departure by not turning up en masse but they have made a choice to do the opposite and keep him here. Everyone has exactly the same rights and reasons to complain if they want to. Just because you don't go to the games (and I have only been to a few this season myself - both through lack of interest, other more important things to do etc) it does not automatically give you more right to complain. Just because you feel like you're doing something to "make a stand". The whole argument is so fucking high and mighty man. It's embarrassing. I didn't want to pack in my season ticket and sacrifice ten years worth of loyalty points, I did it because it was the right thing to do, because funding Mike Ashley is damaging to Newcastle United. How the fuck is it "high and mighty" to believe that people who keep paying top dollar for a shit product (that they know is shit and which admits its ambition is to be shit) can't complain when they receive a shit product? But again thats you're opinion, people have differing opinions, for some people it might not be as easy, they've supported a team since birth, and they want to continue to do that, they want to go to the game and support the team. It's not simply a product to them, it's something people have a connection to, that they hold dear to there heart, so they go to the game with the hope so seeing something memorable, that they can tell there kids one day. Yeah, cheers. I was unsure of the concept of being a football supporter before now. Thats it instead of having a discussion, go ahead and make shitty little digs How am I supposed to respond to that? I know what it means to support a club funnily enough - that's why I don't give money to Mike Ashley to fund him running the fucker into the ground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 At least he hasn't tarnished the city & it's populace as a whole greatly and repeatedly by virtue of his shit-show running of the club time and time again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 If the stadium was empty every week, he would soon do one. There's no advertising opportunities to be had from an empty Championship ground, and that's all he's here for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Of course fans aren't "to blame" but anyone who continues to fund it has <b>zero reason to complain</b>. None. They know what their money is going towards and they give him it anyway. The fan base as a collective can accelerate his departure by not turning up en masse but they have made a choice to do the opposite and keep him here. Everyone has exactly the same rights and reasons to complain if they want to. Just because you don't go to the games (and I have only been to a few this season myself - both through lack of interest, other more important things to do etc) it does not automatically give you more right to complain. Just because you feel like you're doing something to "make a stand". The whole argument is so fucking high and mighty man. It's embarrassing. I didn't want to pack in my season ticket and sacrifice ten years worth of loyalty points, I did it because it was the right thing to do, because funding Mike Ashley is damaging to Newcastle United. How the fuck is it "high and mighty" to believe that people who keep paying top dollar for a shit product (that they know is shit and which admits its ambition is to be shit) can't complain when they receive a shit product? But again thats you're opinion, people have differing opinions, for some people it might not be as easy, they've supported a team since birth, and they want to continue to do that, they want to go to the game and support the team. It's not simply a product to them, it's something people have a connection to, that they hold dear to there heart, so they go to the game with the hope so seeing something memorable, that they can tell there kids one day. Oh, right. So that's why you were happy with our football under McClaren and our transfer business in January? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 It's a priorities issue which each individual decides IMO. I personally value the club being successful and true to the values which I believe it ought to represent more than a day out (if I can use that as my nasty pejorative 'catch all'), or the potential of a 6-2 drubbing of an awful Norwich side once a season etc. If you value a day out more than the club being successful, then your priorities have helped to contribute to the perpetuation of the club being unsuccessful, so in my view it's a bit cheeky to then complain, when you either: a) didn't prioritise the club being successful over your day out or b) didn't know/refuse to accept that there is a correlation between your day out and the club continuing to be run as it is. I've got little sympathy for either category, and frankly, it doesn't sound like they want or need my sympathy. They will continue to have the fantastic days out they've been enjoying for the past 8 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Always enjoy discussions about what a football fan 'deserves'. Do Spurs fans DESERVE to watch a quality team? Do Crewe fans DESERVE to watch an awful one? No football fan deserves anything when they buy a ticket to watch their local club. Load of fucking nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Always enjoy discussions about what a football fan 'deserves'. Do Spurs fans DESERVE to watch a quality team? Do Crewe fans DESERVE to watch an awful one? No football fan deserves anything when they buy a ticket to watch their local club. Load of fucking nonsense. I strongly disagree with that. At the very least football fans deserve those running the club, on their behalf, to be doing the best they can for their club. Not for personal gain. Nobody deserves winning football more than anyone else but winning football is usually a by product of my first point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 It's a priorities issue which each individual decides IMO. I personally value the club being successful and true to the values which I believe it ought to represent more than a day out (if I can use that as my nasty pejorative 'catch all'), or the potential of a 6-2 drubbing of an awful Norwich side once a season etc. If you value a day out more than the club being successful, then your priorities have helped to contribute to the perpetuation of the club being unsuccessful, so in my view it's a bit cheeky to then complain, when you either: a) didn't prioritise the club being successful over your day out or b) didn't know/refuse to accept that there is a correlation between your day out and the club continuing to be run as it is. I've got little sympathy for either category, and frankly, it doesn't sound like they want or need my sympathy. They will continue to have the fantastic days out they've been enjoying for the past 8 years. Look, I have been to 4 games this year (previously had a season ticket for 16 years). The reasoning I gave myself at that time, other than the fact that I had a baby and my priorities changed somewhat, was that maybe just maybe if enough people stopped going something might change. But then the realisation set in... No one has yet given me a reasonable explanation of how not showing up is going to change anything? If the stadium was empty every week, <b>he would soon do one</b>. There's no advertising opportunities to be had from an empty Championship ground, and that's all he's here for. He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it. If you're talking about emptying the stadium every week, seeing us relegated further divisions, in the hope of eventually reclaiming our club and rising back up like some kind of metaphorical phoenix, is that REALLY worth the risk? Genuine question. He will never sell the club in the Premier League, the rewards for mediocrity are now too great. Worth the risk to me as I certainly won't be back while Ashley's there. Number one priority to me is to be able to go back, and feel proud to support them, instead of guilty. Whether that's in the Premier League or the Conference, I honestly don't care a jot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 It's a priorities issue which each individual decides IMO. I personally value the club being successful and true to the values which I believe it ought to represent more than a day out (if I can use that as my nasty pejorative 'catch all'), or the potential of a 6-2 drubbing of an awful Norwich side once a season etc. If you value a day out more than the club being successful, then your priorities have helped to contribute to the perpetuation of the club being unsuccessful, so in my view it's a bit cheeky to then complain, when you either: a) didn't prioritise the club being successful over your day out or b) didn't know/refuse to accept that there is a correlation between your day out and the club continuing to be run as it is. I've got little sympathy for either category, and frankly, it doesn't sound like they want or need my sympathy. They will continue to have the fantastic days out they've been enjoying for the past 8 years. Look, I have been to 4 games this year (previously had a season ticket for 16 years). The reasoning I gave myself at that time, other than the fact that I had a baby and my priorities changed somewhat, was that maybe just maybe if enough people stopped going something might change. But then the realisation set in... No one has yet given me a reasonable explanation of how not showing up is going to change anything? If the stadium was empty every week, <b>he would soon do one</b>. There's no advertising opportunities to be had from an empty Championship ground, and that's all he's here for. He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it. If you're talking about emptying the stadium every week, seeing us relegated further divisions, in the hope of eventually reclaiming our club and rising back up like some kind of metaphorical phoenix, is that REALLY worth the risk? Genuine question. There 's an industry dedicated to turning around failed businesses, departments etc. Why would football be any different? I would argue that is how business can work. Vendors selling something for a value which is good for them (ie. above the minimal advertising revenue receivable in the Championship, reduced turnstile coffers and reduced wonga t-shirt money) to purchasers who have the savvy, resource or will to extract more value from that something than in its present state (ie. an owner who wants to see the club succeed, and knows that financial success will follow footballing success). (eg. http://startups.co.uk/buying-failed-businesses/ ) In answer to your genuine question: yes To me the club serves no purpose and represents little to nothing of what I believe it should in its current guise. My stake is an empty husk of something valuable so I can't lose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it. If people had left in their droves by now then I doubt he'd still own the club personally. "How businessmen work" is cutting their losses before the shit really hits the fan and their asset is essentially worthless. The fact that half a billion people won't see his advertising every week anymore will be more significant to him than anything else right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Because, quite frankly Wullie, putting money into Mike Ashley's pocket is NOT a guarantee that you will or should get a shit product Hindu, you can't actually be serious about this. There are almost too many points to list but 2 relegations during his tenure pretty much confirms that a shit product is guaranteed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it. If people had left in their droves by now then I doubt he'd still own the club personally. "How businessmen work" is cutting their losses before the s*** really hits the fan and their asset is essentially worthless. The fact that half a billion people won't see his advertising every week anymore will be more significant to him than anything else right now. But it wasn't significant to him last time we went down (although I can't remember if the stadium was plastered with all that stuff last time). Of course it was, we spent one season down there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I think for people who are determined to support Newcastle no matter what, the whole point is it doesn't matter what the product is like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it. If people had left in their droves by now then I doubt he'd still own the club personally. "How businessmen work" is cutting their losses before the s*** really hits the fan and their asset is essentially worthless. The fact that half a billion people won't see his advertising every week anymore will be more significant to him than anything else right now. But it wasn't significant to him last time we went down (although I can't remember if the stadium was plastered with all that stuff last time). Of course it was, we spent one season down there. But it wasn't significant enough for him to consider selling, is what I mean. He said that he'd put the club on the market. Months into the season it was clear that we had a very good chance of getting promoted and all talk of that went quiet. The free advertising he gets to project to such a huge audience is his main reason for owning the club, no question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 It's a priorities issue which each individual decides IMO. I personally value the club being successful and true to the values which I believe it ought to represent more than a day out (if I can use that as my nasty pejorative 'catch all'), or the potential of a 6-2 drubbing of an awful Norwich side once a season etc. If you value a day out more than the club being successful, then your priorities have helped to contribute to the perpetuation of the club being unsuccessful, so in my view it's a bit cheeky to then complain, when you either: a) didn't prioritise the club being successful over your day out or b) didn't know/refuse to accept that there is a correlation between your day out and the club continuing to be run as it is. I've got little sympathy for either category, and frankly, it doesn't sound like they want or need my sympathy. They will continue to have the fantastic days out they've been enjoying for the past 8 years. Look, I have been to 4 games this year (previously had a season ticket for 16 years). The reasoning I gave myself at that time, other than the fact that I had a baby and my priorities changed somewhat, was that maybe just maybe if enough people stopped going something might change. But then the realisation set in... No one has yet given me a reasonable explanation of how not showing up is going to change anything? If the stadium was empty every week, <b>he would soon do one</b>. There's no advertising opportunities to be had from an empty Championship ground, and that's all he's here for. He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it. If you're talking about emptying the stadium every week, seeing us relegated further divisions, in the hope of eventually reclaiming our club and rising back up like some kind of metaphorical phoenix, is that REALLY worth the risk? Genuine question. He will never sell the club in the Premier League, the rewards for mediocrity are now too great. Worth the risk to me as I certainly won't be back while Ashley's there. Number one priority to me is to be able to go back, and feel proud to support them, instead of guilty. Whether that's in the Premier League or the Conference, I honestly don't care a jot. This is the bottom line. I don't care that we're relegated because I took no enjoyment from being a Premier League team and I take no pride in supporting the imitation of Newcastle United that was just demoted. He needs to go before that can change, and that looks more likely to happen away from the tv deals and commercial exposure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 No, it does not guarantee anything. And you are not culpable or partly to blame if you buy a season ticket believing that maybe this year this will change. When you buy a ticket for ANY club, you are never guaranteed anything. Ashley's record suggests that, yes, we've been shit, but the idea that you can't buy a ticket in the hope / expectation of us being better is bullshit. I have to say I think that's naive Hindu. If you look at any club, at who runs it, who the manager is and who the playing staff are, you have a pretty good idea of what you are buying into. We know for a fact that Ashley doesn't want us to get better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figures 1-0 Football Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Great to think along those lines but Ashley has had countless opportunties before to change. I have no doubt Rafa will beg to stay, Ashley will boot him out and we'll be singing 'Steve Evans' Black n White Army' next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dabe Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it. If people had left in their droves by now then I doubt he'd still own the club personally. "How businessmen work" is cutting their losses before the s*** really hits the fan and their asset is essentially worthless. The fact that half a billion people won't see his advertising every week anymore will be more significant to him than anything else right now. But it wasn't significant to him last time we went down (although I can't remember if the stadium was plastered with all that stuff last time). Of course it was, we spent one season down there. But it wasn't significant enough for him to consider selling, is what I mean. He said that he'd put the club on the market. Months into the season it was clear that we had a very good chance of getting promoted and all talk of that went quiet. The free advertising he gets to project to such a huge audience is his main reason for owning the club, no question. And he has already said this time that we're stuck with him even if we get relegated. It's easy to remain when there's only apathy from large portions of the fan base. Prolonged protests work; see History. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 He spent money and hired Rafa because he didn't want us to get relegated and lose a fortune. That's the only time he ever acts. I don't understand why this needs spelling out. "He's changed" ffs. Are you on the wind up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Touche. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it. If people had left in their droves by now then I doubt he'd still own the club personally. "How businessmen work" is cutting their losses before the s*** really hits the fan and their asset is essentially worthless. The fact that half a billion people won't see his advertising every week anymore will be more significant to him than anything else right now. But it wasn't significant to him last time we went down (although I can't remember if the stadium was plastered with all that stuff last time). Of course it was, we spent one season down there. But it wasn't significant enough for him to consider selling, is what I mean. He said that he'd put the club on the market. Months into the season it was clear that we had a very good chance of getting promoted and all talk of that went quiet. The free advertising he gets to project to such a huge audience is his main reason for owning the club, no question. And he has already said this time that we're stuck with him even if we get relegated. The guy is a twice proven liar. It means fuck all. They thought we'd get out of this and so that bluster will no doubt change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Little Waster Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 We don't know for a fact that he doesn't want us to get better. However, we know that thus far he doesn't appear to know how to make us better. FFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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