England: Burn and Gordon named in latest squad (Official)

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, JumpersForGoalposts said:

I'd be devastated about that. There's a massive gulf between club and international currently and Southgate is a proven failure at club level.

 

Yes, he'd wear a nice suit and say nice things, but I wouldn't want to see a harmonious squad of shite players relegated whilst playing heartless, boring, naive football. 

He had a pretty average squad at Boro and managed two comfortable mid-table finishes before relegation. That’s been his only job so seems a bit harsh saying he’s a proven failure? Could easily see him in a few years at someone like Palace.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Optimistic Nut

[Kid Icarus]

3 minutes ago, Flip said:

 

I'd agree here in many ways. We discussed Martinez wasting talents yesterday, but I feel like Southgate should receive far more criticism than Martinez in regards to that. England had the golden chance to reach a World Cup final and then lost to a rather average Croatia side (evident by the French demolishing them). I doubt many top nations has had an easier way to a World Cup final than England had in 2018. 

 

That being said, England have a good enough squad to win it all this year and national team managers aren't as important as in club football.

 

Finding it a lot harder to detect the sarcasm in this post than in mine

[Flip]

3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Finding it a lot harder to detect the sarcasm in this post than in mine

 

  Having re-read your post I'm not even sure if I'm quoting the right post. Don't think I read it properly.  I read we beat the easy teams and then posted without reading it all. That's what happens when you post KI, I can't bother reading through the whole post  

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Flip

[Hanshithispantz]

Southgate looks like the kind of bloke who tries to keep up with modern methods - he just prefers the more cautious side of the game. He's not a dinosaur and is probably a much more knowledgeable manager than he was at Boro. He's obviously been heavily involved with Ashworth, so he sort of has to be. I wouldn't want him here but I wouldn't be surprised if he did well in the Premiership like.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Hanshithispantz

[PeepShow4life]

People are saying Southgate must be good because of how far we got in the last two tournaments.

 

In both we had favourable fixtures, in the world cup we got easily beaten twice by Belgium, barely scrapped past Colombia and lost to an inferior Croatian team. Most of our goals came from set pieces and the football wasn't very good.

 

In the Euros, the Germany game aside which was very impressive, we had favourable fixtures again and couldn't beat a weak Italy side in the final.

 

I think I remember Bruce having a good cup run one year but we had the easiest draws ever and then once we came up against a good team, lost immediately. Does that make him a good manager then?

 

Southgate seems like a great guy but I don't rate him as a manager at all.

 

 

[Guest]

We’ve had easy runs and lucks of the draw in the past and fucked it up, without getting within Extra-Time of a World Cup Final and a couple of penalty-kicks from winning the Euros.

 

One is luck, getting within a whisker twice in a row suggests he has something about him at that level.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Optimistic Nut

[Hanshithispantz]

We looked very strong in qualifying too. Three qualification runs without a hiccup now.

[Ste]

Both the Croatia and Italy games, we suffered from not taking our chances. I thought both games we started well and had a good first 45, then seemed to shrink in stature. To be expected with all the pressure, particularly that Italy game where you could feel the nervous energy from the stands. 

 

The entire Euros up to that point, aside from a spell in the Germany game where Pickford appeared to lose his nerve, we controlled most games and conceded 2 goals, 1 from open play. We played the tournament perfectly for me. 

 

It's far easier to get your team solid defensively and maintain a shape in the little time you have than to get them to play open and expansive attacking football.

 

Individual moments let us down more than anything Southgate does. The comparison to Bruce is ridiculous. Sacking Southgate couldn't be further from my mind currently, him and his team had me enjoying football while Bruce was capping off an utterly dreadful 14 years of Mike Ashley.

[WillingtonMag]

10 minutes ago, Ste said:

Both the Croatia and Italy games, we suffered from not taking our chances. I thought both games we started well and had a good first 45, then seemed to shrink in stature. To be expected with all the pressure, particularly that Italy game where you could feel the nervous energy from the stands. 

 

The entire Euros up to that point, aside from a spell in the Germany game where Pickford appeared to lose his nerve, we controlled most games and conceded 2 goals, 1 from open play. We played the tournament perfectly for me. 

 

It's far easier to get your team solid defensively and maintain a shape in the little time you have than to get them to play open and expansive attacking football.

 

Individual moments let us down more than anything Southgate does. The comparison to Bruce is ridiculous. Sacking Southgate couldn't be further from my mind currently, him and his team had me enjoying football while Bruce was capping off an utterly dreadful 14 years of Mike Ashley.

We didn't have a single shot on target against Italy in 90 minutes after scoring in the first 2 minutes...wasn't down to not taking chances at all it was down to how the manager set us up.

[Unbelievable]

1 hour ago, Flip said:

 

I mean we could argue for ages, and I here you, but I don't agree. In a way you are right, the Conference League etc is very good for smaller clubs, the same way the Nations League is good for smaller nations. However, your example forgets the fact that Liverpool, Real etc aren't playing the CL, Europa League and Conference League. If they were, no one would care about the Europa League or Conference League. 

 

This is evident by the fact that many teams are treating it like friendlies with their line-ups. Trying new formations and new players as preparation for the World Cup. I mean, it's like saying Messi winning the Finalissima is a major international trophy for him. It's not. I promise you, ask any European country if they'd switch qualifying for a major international tournament for winning the Nations League.

But that’s a bit of a false equivalence I would say. It’s like pointing out that top clubs in England would rather qualify for CL than win the FA Cup, which has been treated by many managers as a nice opportunity to give the stiffs and youngsters a run out since at least Wenger 20 odd years ago. Does that make the FA Cup irrelevant, or the cup final game insignificant? I wouldn’t say so at all. Going back to the Nations League, I think the timing here at the end of a long season is unfortunate, because at least some international managers definitely seem to place more value on it then they did meaningless friendlies. Because that would be and was for a long  time the alternative. Now at least teams play teams of similar strength and there is a promotion/relegation structure that adds interest and importance.

 

in any case, it’s fine if you don’t like it. I do happen to take an interest in the competitive element of it, and I doubt I am alone in that.

[Mike]

3 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Southgate can be frustrating as fuck on a matchday but he (and obviously the other staff) have pulled together the most harmonious England squad we've probably ever had 

 

There's a massive risk that we sack him and the whole thing falls apart. Unless it was like Graham Potter I cannot think of any definite imrovements who could carry on what Southgate has done?

 

Heard good things about this guy Steve Bruce. Seems pretty well liked. 1000 games in management as well!

[Hanshithispantz]

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

Heard good things about this guy Steve Bruce. Seems pretty well liked. 1000 games in management as well!

Half a decade ago this would probably have been nailed on tbh

 

McLaren and fucking Allardyce man

[Mike]

Just now, Hanshithispantz said:

Half a decade ago this would probably have been nailed on tbh

 

McLaren and fucking Allardyce man

 

The good old days, man.

[WillingtonMag]

Pardew is a better comparison got us to 5th and Palace to an FA Cup final. Does that make him a good manager? More credentials then Southgate anyways.

[wormy]

 These debates are about the only thing I find interesting when international breaks roll around. 

[Lazarus]

3 hours ago, The Prophet said:

I think he likes the Phillips-Rice partnership because it protects a really suspect Maguire. 

 

FYP.

[astraguy]

Us being 3rd favorites is laughable to me ,Hardly bothered with England since Southgate got the job and when i have i've been bored.The fa screwed up binning Capello imo or would of prefered Harry over Southgate

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, astraguy said:

Us being 3rd favorites is laughable to me ,Hardly bothered with England since Southgate got the job and when i have i've been bored.The fa screwed up binning Capello imo or would of prefered Harry over Southgate

So you had no interest in the last World Cup or Euros just because of Southgate? Boggles my mind even if people don’t rate him that like.

[astraguy]

14 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

So you had no interest in the last World Cup or Euros just because of Southgate? Boggles my mind even if people don’t rate him that like.

Watched a few when out in places but is was basically background noise to me,Sounds sad as if u go back 10 years or so back i wouldn't miss a England game 

[ilikenewcastle]

Just reading through the last few pages, there are a couple of things that some people class as facts that I'd like to dispute. This current England team is objectively one of the best in the world right now. Also our run to the Euro final was not especially easy (Croatia, Germany, Denmark are not bad sides and I'd say Italy's run was barely harder).

 

My feelings on Southgate are so mixed, I feel if we have an underwhelming World Cup he should definitely go. But people need to remember how terrible we were before Southgate. We constantly froze in pretty much every tournament game against even the worst opposition. You cannot deny things have changed dramatically at the last 2 tournaments - the frustration is that things could, and should have been even better.

[Guest]

I think Southgate has bought himself one average tournament. Unless it’s horrendous like going out bottom of the group, or losing in the Second Round to a relative minnow (like we did with Iceland) then he should get the next Euros.

[brummie]

Southgate has done alright.

 

England have never had problems putting together long unbeaten runs outside tournament finals, though, there's nothing new in that. The problems have always been when we come up against decent sides in the actual tournaments, we always fall slightly short.

 

My problem with Southgate is that although if you look scientifically at the results, he is doing well, he manages to make it so fucking boring in doing so.

 

Grealish is an example of his mindset. With us he had license to roam, to create, to run at people. With Man City he's a different player playing in a different way, where his main focus is not to lose the ball and his job is tightly defined.

All this is fine and understandable, but it is telling that Southgate was never really convinced by 'our' incarnation of Grealish, but he loves the somewhat sterile, bland Man City version (and I know he played more his natural game when he came on yesterday, but even so). 

[WillingtonMag]

21 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

I think Southgate has bought himself one average tournament. Unless it’s horrendous like going out bottom of the group, or losing in the Second Round to a relative minnow (like we did with Iceland) then he should get the next Euros.

So that's 4 tournaments on a manager who isn't good enough, just seems like massive missed opportunities to me. Don't see why we should celebrate semi finals and being runners up, should try and push on now and get a manager in who can turn a game not surrender it.

[Keggy_Keagal]

Never been 100% convinced by Saint Gareth. What's Southgate good at ? He picks his favourites, tries to maintain this Club England theme, cracks on like we're still a developing team rather than having a side with some of the best players in the World and Europe. and get's an easy ride from the press because he's re-established media privileges. His sides aren't set up for great attacking play and despite the conservative system are still sloppy at the back. We were a goal up against a side of Italian pensioners in a final and we conceded from a set play. Then he was lost as to how to change it. Croatia in the World Cup we're a goal up after 5 mins and again he doesn't know how to see it out or to build on it. We'll always be nearly men at best with him when I don't see a team with a better pool of players to pick from.

[geordie_b]

Dunno why but i never really see Southgate as a manger, more like a captain of a cricket team who doesnt play and is just another opinion within a group making the key decisions. Im not even sure he has a massive input of squads, the majority of time they are just the same players who have been involved at the different levels all playing a similar style and coached in the same way (See Dan Ashworths England DNA). Southgate is just a motivator and massive lacking when it comes to in game decisions.