Chancel Mbemba

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

It's covered extensively in another thread. Why not consider it before you say things like 'A clear pen.'

 

Shit haiku by the way.

[Guest chopey]

It always looked a bit dodgy when none of the Man U players even appealed it, Gini got fouled loads in the box on the night and it wasn't even brought up for conversation

[madras]

He knew exactly where Fellaini was, that's why the exaggerated use of the arm and yes it was a pen .

[healthyaddiction]

Bring up the law then.

There's stuff on it to do with position of arm. 

Having your arm horizontal in the air when challenging for a ball is suicide imo

 

To be fair, the stuff it says in relation to the position of the arm is that "the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement". Along with the other stuff it is implying you shouldn't take the position of the hand into consideration.

 

You could argue his hand is moving towards the ball I think.

[Kanji]

Don't bite man, don't. Waste of time.

[Altamullan]

Personally I thought, still think, he was just reaching to locate the man he was meant to be marking. That is why his arm was there, not to aid his jump, nor to deliberately block the ball. If position makes a difference -- natural unnatural, high-low-a bit too camp -- (I don't know, and frankly can't be arsed to find out) then he was foolish to risk it. If the ref has to guess intent, based on the players movement/behaviour, then I think he's got it wrong, as he did for the Janmmat scything.

[nemtizz]

Personally I thought, still think, he was just reaching to locate the man he was meant to be marking. That is why his arm was there, not to aid his jump, nor to deliberately block the ball. If position makes a difference -- natural unnatural, high-low-a bit too camp -- (I don't know, and frankly can't be arsed to find out) then he was foolish to risk it. If the ref has to guess intent, based on the players movement/behaviour, then I think he's got it wrong, as he did for the Janmmat scything.

 

[Dave]

It always looked a bit dodgy when none of the Man U players even appealed it, Gini got fouled loads in the box on the night and it wasn't even brought up for conversation

 

Yeah they did.

[madras]

Personally I thought, still think, he was just reaching to locate the man he was meant to be marking. That is why his arm was there, not to aid his jump, nor to deliberately block the ball. If position makes a difference -- natural unnatural, high-low-a bit too camp -- (I don't know, and frankly can't be arsed to find out) then he was foolish to risk it. If the ref has to guess intent, based on the players movement/behaviour, then I think he's got it wrong, as he did for the Janmmat scything.

Kind of, I saw it that he was thinking of stopping their progress, man or ball, whichever. I still think penalty was the correct call after watching slo-mo's and numerous angles. How the ref came to that conclusion in real time is different though, tbf same goes for our given penalty. The challenge on Janmaat and Fellaini still being on the pitch at the end were still disgraceful though.

[Cronky]

It looked like Mbemba knew he was in trouble and was trying to make himself big. His sole intention may not have been to handle the ball, but there was a clear risk of that happening. On another day, he might have got away with it, but a pen was a fair decision.

 

The worse call was Colback being denied a pen. It was the sort of challenge that would be a free kick anywhere but in the area. The defender took hold of him and that affected his balance when he was trying to shoot.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

It looked like Mbemba knew he was in trouble and was trying to make himself big. His sole intention may not have been to handle the ball, but there was a clear risk of that happening. On another day, he might have got away with it, but a pen was a fair decision.

 

The worse call was Colback being denied a pen. It was the sort of challenge that would be a free kick anywhere but in the area. The defender took hold of him and that affected his balance when he was trying to shoot on the pitch.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It looked like Mbemba knew he was in trouble and was trying to make himself big. His sole intention may not have been to handle the ball, but there was a clear risk of that happening. On another day, he might have got away with it, but a pen was a fair decision.

 

I don't think players have a responsibility to avoid handball at all costs though.

[Cronky]

It looked like Mbemba knew he was in trouble and was trying to make himself big. His sole intention may not have been to handle the ball, but there was a clear risk of that happening. On another day, he might have got away with it, but a pen was a fair decision.

 

I don't think players have a responsibility to avoid handball at all costs though.

 

Well yeah, this is a grey area, and generally speaking defenders tend to get judged too harshly on this. Too many pens get given in this kind of situation.

 

But Mbemba was deliberately spreading himself, and that tips the scales IMO.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I just think handball should be reserved for when players blatantly get a deliberate advantage by moving the ball with their hands. When there's so much doubt about it I think that tells you it's a very questionable decision. It's one of my football pet hates, the handball debate.

[madras]

I just think handball should be reserved for when players blatantly get a deliberate advantage by moving the ball with their hands. When there's so much doubt about it I think that tells you it's a very questionable decision. It's one of my football pet hates, the handball debate.

wouldn't players then make themselves big so to speak and claim their arms were out before the ball was played. I get your point though, it is a gray area.

[themanupstairs]

This handball/pen issue is so convoluted and confusing. In my mind, anytime the ball touches a hand/arm in the penalty area which changes the direction of the ball, it should be a penalty. Deliberate or not. This is the reason it shouldn't be a penalty if a ball strikes an arm that is in front of the head/chest/down by the leg, as long as the ball's direction doesn't change had the arm not been there.

 

In this case, I don't believe Mbemba deliberately handballed it, but his outstretched arm changed the direction of the ball, and should therefore be a penalty.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

So you'd have forwards shooting the ball for people's hands?

[madras]

So you'd have forwards shooting the ball for people's hands?

don't be silly.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

So you'd have forwards shooting the ball for people's hands?

don't be silly.

 

If any redirection of the ball by a hand is a penalty, you think it wouldn't enter into players' minds to flick the ball up onto someone's arm if they were in a tight spot?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

In this case, I don't believe Mbemba deliberately handballed it, but his outstretched arm changed the direction of the ball, and should therefore be a penalty.

 

If you believe it wasn't deliberate, then you believe it's not a penalty. By definition.

[madras]

So you'd have forwards shooting the ball for people's hands?

don't be silly.

 

If any redirection of the ball by a hand is a penalty, you think it wouldn't enter into players' minds to flick the ball up onto someone's arm if they were in a tight spot?

thought you were replying to me. Sorry.

[Minhosa]

Big fan of this lad but probably had his worst game for us against Man Utd.

[themanupstairs]

In this case, I don't believe Mbemba deliberately handballed it, but his outstretched arm changed the direction of the ball, and should therefore be a penalty.

 

If you believe it wasn't deliberate, then you believe it's not a penalty. By definition.

 

Oh yes by the current rules. I just meant that if they adjusted it the way I've explained, it would eliminate a lot of the guessing and controversy.

[madras]

Big fan of this lad but probably had his worst game for us against Man Utd.

wasn't his worst game. Played very well actually despite being to blame for two goals.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

In this case, I don't believe Mbemba deliberately handballed it, but his outstretched arm changed the direction of the ball, and should therefore be a penalty.

 

If you believe it wasn't deliberate, then you believe it's not a penalty. By definition.

 

Oh yes by the current rules. I just meant that if they adjusted it the way I've explained, it would eliminate a lot of the guessing and controversy.

 

Oh right, got you. Sometimes people misunderstand the 'guidance on deciding if it's deliberate' to be 'factors that can make it a penalty', where in fact they're slightly different.