Guest ElCid Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Carver and Ormand were at the same Montagu Boys Club for a few years when Carver was a youngster and Ormand was a coach. Carver used to wear a Wolves top at the time as they were the team he supported as a boy. Your right I know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Title only says he failed to act and he did. Even the Guardian goes with "did not take action on abuse claims right away" instead of "failed to act" man. Although "gives evidence in nonce trial" also works. He's also talking about things that happened 20 year ago, I doubt even he has a decent memory of how it went down. It's not even the title really anyway tbh, I think Carver is a total cunt but I think it needed pointing out that this is actually probably not heinous behaviour and that there's evidence this kind of reaction is pretty common. I think it's canny harsh to demonised him over it. Well I understand where you're coming from but it just seems to underline further to me he's just useless and lacks professionalism or adequate common sense. I think most people will stop short of accusing him of some kind of support for Ormand's actions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 If someone came to me in my job (as a support worker) and made allegations against someone I knew or worked with, it’s your personal duty to report and escalate it up the chain of command. If it transpired that I knew and said nout - I’d be sacked. Carver is a prick. You've probably received better 'training' like. I might not be giving the 90s enough credit but I would hope the entire system around youth players is different now. for once i'm in agreement with hans like, i simply wouldn't have expected anything else of the likes of carver...doesn't make his inaction right or whatever but it's 100% the reaction i'd have expected Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Point out a single straw man. I have no clue how I would react as I've never been in that situation - I can just picture how difficult it would be and how easy it would be to be in denial about it. Without evidence and (I'm just assuming here) without the proper knowledge about how to deal with these situations I imagine it's a lot easier to theorise about what you would do rather than do what you would actually wish you would do. The 'ruse' bit is weird but then we don't really know the full info on any of this, there isn't a great deal in the article. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 carver's also a thick cunt who probably knew he was in a position he had no right to be in, people in those spots will never rock the boat, ever doesn't excuse him but blame the people who put him there just as much imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Call me bitter but if I was a billionaire in a position to buy the club, the first thing I would literally do is write a lengthy club statement about how Pardew and Carver bought the club into disrepute and issue them both with life bans. Then I would invite Jonas to host a fundraising match at SJP. Only then would I talk to Rafa about the current playing side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 If you hear allergations that someone is a nonce you’re not going to immediately run to the police without evidence. Literally no one suggested this? Also you're acting like this his best mate, it's not. He knew him socially. Also I don't think it is that difficult to imagine how you would react. At the literal very very least, you ask the guy. And that's the minimum. There were regulations in the late 90s. it wasn't some wild west free for all nonce-a-thon. If carver was such good mates with him, he obviously felt there was some truth in it as he wanted to get him out of the club. I mean atleast try not to straw man my in a post accusing me of straw manning other people man, howay It being 20 year ago isn't irrelevant like. I don't know what systems were in place at the club back then but I imagine they've improved a lot since - as has working with children in general. I'm assuming Carver wasn't fully trained in how to deal with this kind of thing but I might be wrong. The article says he 'took part' in a ruse I think. It's canny vague what happened, but it reads like a group within the club had been made aware of the allegations and thought that was the best course of action was to get him out. It sounds thick as fuck but again we don't really know the full details - it's all a bit vague. In any case I don't really care, I was mortal when I wrote my initial posts and have no real desire to continue arguing my point now I do think people are being too harsh on him given the little we know though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Don't know about the 90s but when I was a kid in the 80s, we had a well known nonce that we were told to avoid. We used to seek him out and torment him, until he chased us on his motorbike. Times have definitely changed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altamullan Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Part of the reasoning behind the mass implementation of safeguarding policies and procedures was to acknowledge how often suspicions or allegations were being made and not co-ordinated, largely based on findings from health and social care services. A significant part of this is how hard it can be for colleagues/friends/family to believe that someone known to them was harming children. Whilst I am not excusing Carver’s presumed lack of action, it was unfortunately a common occurrence. Therefore the era it happened in does provide context. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 As an aside, I've never known anything like it for some posters on here using these situations as a vehicle for proper falling over themselves to show off about being bog-standard, basically decent human beings like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfGosforth Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 As an aside, I've never known anything like it for some posters on here using these situations as a vehicle for proper falling over themselves to show off about being bog-standard, basically decent human beings like. What a strange and needlessly antagonistic thing to say. Like there's some other way to respond. Making a mental note here to only make revolutionary comments in future when it comes to discussing child abuse from the 90's. Anything else just isn't meaningful or worthwhile Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 these comments are becoming less strange and more frequent unfortunately Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Stop showing off about basic human decency then you fucking weirdos. As if anyone's impressed because Cuba and Deuce would report paedophiles. Yous absolutely love showing off about how basically decent you are, it's proper weird. I'm already the least popular poster on here tbf, so I may as well not bother pulling punches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I'm already the least popular poster on here tbf, so I may as well not bother pulling punches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Brand new information Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Stop showing off about basic human decency then you fucking weirdos. As if anyone's impressed because Cuba and Deuce would report paedophiles. Yous absolutely love showing off about how basically decent you are, it's proper weird. I'm already the least popular poster on here tbf, so I may as well not bother pulling punches. We were blatantly asked what we would do if one of our friends were an alleged pedophile, you absolute rectangle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Stop showing off about basic human decency then you fucking weirdos. As if anyone's impressed because Cuba and Deuce would report paedophiles. Yous absolutely love showing off about how basically decent you are, it's proper weird. I'm already the least popular poster on here tbf, so I may as well not bother pulling punches. They were very clearly saying these things in response to hans' statement that he would willingly aid and abet a paedophile given the opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I'm already the least popular poster on here tbf, so I may as well not bother pulling punches. Imagine choosing *this* as the hill to die upon, in a thread about child sexual abuse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfGosforth Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Stop showing off about basic human decency then you fucking weirdos. As if anyone's impressed because Cuba and Deuce would report paedophiles. Yous absolutely love showing off about how basically decent you are, it's proper weird. I'm already the least popular poster on here tbf, so I may as well not bother pulling punches. They were very clearly saying these things in response to hans' statement that he would willingly aid and abet a paedophile given the opportunity. Weird craic like, as if showing basic human decency and debating this is something to be alarmed and ashamed about. I didn't even think Hans was trying to agree, more that he understood the indecision and therefore, as it's a forum and the question arose, we debated it in a friendly manner. Then KI comes in windmilling aal ower claiming we're showing off and calling us weirdos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Just give is the call whenever you need a hand SEMTEX. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Carver is a thick cunt, but I doubt he’d kept quiet if he thought to a high enough level that any of it was true. We all hear stories as kids for example. Old man Herbert style neighbour, or the teacher who touch lasses inappropriately, or one who’d always get close to the boys. I heard it all, at times believed some of it. Looking back, do I really? I don’t know, probably not for most part, maybe for others. I’m guessing it’s not the first rumour that’s gone round the club, it’s probsbly been said several times over in different cases. Some true, some not. Not sure how carver deals with that or how I would back then. he wouldn’t have been the only one to hear this and done nothing either. It’s a fucking mess and really football, coaches and staff just weren’t equipped with the right skills to deal with it. Now it’s more in the open and victim support at its best and we will see better management throughout football and I’m sure discrimination, racism, victimisation and sexual abuse would be tackled at coaching courses. Carver is a dinosaur, and a stupid one at that, he couldn’t cope with that shit. Maybe he’s guilty of sticking his head in the sand, if so he’ll have to deal with the guilt. Another thought I have is the structure of the club and who he could have told. Imagine him going to shepherd with that, or the then current manager? He may have had a word with someone and told to leave it or they weren’t interested. How far does he go then? Maybe you were right (whoever it was) about people in positions they don’t deserve not wanting to rock the boat. Bit of a mess of thoughts that, just brings up so many questions and scenarios, overall I feel whistleblowers didn’t have that confidence, support structure or legal power as they do now. It’s quite easy to say you’d do it now, because you’ve got it all on you side. Back then you could lose your job, never do the job you love again and basically be blackballed from the only career you know. For a rumour you couldn’t prove? Takes balls that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Basically how I see it, aye. If I knew someone was a nonce I would act (as I assume the vast majority of this forum would). If I heard allegations someone was a nonce I'm not sure how I would react. Carver didn't know his pal was a paedo, he'd heard 2nd hand allegations (of which we haven't seen) and didn't know how to immediately deal with them. There's been countless examples of this kind of thing happening which is why people working with children need clear guidlines on how to report abuse allegations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 That article reads a lot more damning than you are making out. First he didn't hear a rumour he heard someone had made allegations. Secondly he seemed to know enough to act....'Carver said he never confronted Ormond with the allegations, but instead found what he later agreed was “a ruse” to “get George Ormond out of the football club”.' As for the dinosaur comment it's not like your 95 Year old nan who still uses the wrong words. An allegation was made about a bloke in a position of power over kids being a peado and again Carver knew enough to get him out the club without making anything official. It's shit, cowardly and wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Had to edit that post a ridiculous amount, watching the football and it was riddled with typos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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