Dokko Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Be interesting to see what happens in 2019 when thry have to pay back the loan to the creditors. Its near £100m, thry havent got it, not even if thry sold everything they own. What happens then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Be interesting to see what happens in 2019 when thry have to pay back the loan to the creditors. Its near £100m, thry havent got it, not even if thry sold everything they own. What happens then? A very big loan from another creditor over a long period Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Be interesting to see what happens in 2019 when thry have to pay back the loan to the creditors. Its near £100m, thry havent got it, not even if thry sold everything they own. What happens then? They just pay back part of it and re-finance (most likely at a worse rate) the rest. Whilst the future seems pretty bleak unless they get taken over, there should be very little chance of administration whilst Short continues to be the owner. They'll most likely continue to limp along, cost-cutting and scrimping by. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Be interesting to see what happens in 2019 when thry have to pay back the loan to the creditors. Its near £100m, thry havent got it, not even if thry sold everything they own. What happens then? They just pay back part of it and re-finance (most likely at a worse rate) the rest. Whilst the future seems pretty bleak unless they get taken over, there should be very little chance of administration whilst Short continues to be the owner. They'll most likely continue to limp along, cost-cutting and scrimping by. However doesn't Administration effectively mean that the entity no longer exists and they will be a 'new' entity. So the 6 in a row will be forever protected as the club no longer exists in it's former state. That would actually appeal to a lot of them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Yeah, but their new club would be a nothing entity with no history, characterised by nothing other than some pink seats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Basically, someone will buy them for nowt (or next to nowt) and pay off the debt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Basically, someone will buy them for nowt (or next to nowt) and pay off the debt. Still going to have to cough up around £130m to "pay off the debt" though. They'll do well to find someone prepared to pay that for them in their current state. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Aye but that in effect becomes the price of the club. As much as it pains me to say it, if a new owner could make some sensible decisions and get them back in the premiership, they would be easily worth that. Any new owner might as well wait until the club has got all the high earning knacker off the books though. They must be crippling the wage bill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Highly unlikely anyone will pay that much for a League One club, regardless of the potential. A Championship club? Possibly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 PLus the reduction of the wage bill, spending on new players etc. Looking at more like £250m to be a Championship club that is debt free Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest covmag Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 ahhhhh but if they get relegated they will win a few matches in another piss easy league then be nailed on for a return to the Prem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Highly unlikely anyone will pay that much for a League One club, regardless of the potential. A Championship club? Possibly. Potential? Their potential is fake. Their paying core of fans isn't what they billed and is now being shown up once Premiership football and free tickets has ended. There's even those who've paid and aren't turning up. This isn't a club with potential. It's a club which tried to keep up with the jones', overspent in the wrong areas, pretended to be bigger than what they are and are now suffering the consequences. No one cares about the club outside of the North East. No one wants to play for them and the fans can't or won't put money in to it via tickets or merchandise. There isn't potential there to make money, there are much bigger clubs in the division in better financial positions who would cost less than their debt. Those are the real sleeping giants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Wow! https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/how-much-is-the-clubs-debt.1416931/ Grumpy Old Man Winger None whatseoever. I'm just going to post some real numbers for about the third time this week. These are got at by adding together all the numbers in the accounts for the last ten years. Turnover: £766..5m Staff costs: £577.2m Other operating costs: £192.1m Interest: £34.9m Cash outflow on players bought £309.m Cash inflow from players sold: £125.8m Debt on 1 August 2006 £35m Debt at 31 July 2017 £137m Debt converted to shares during that time £101m The one thing that hasn't happened is Short getting anything back. It's all gone, pretty much to players, their agents, and other football clubs. This is why I don't really get their hatred and blame of Short for their footballing position. Pretty much all of his managerial appointments have been initially popular with their support, he supported those managers with significant transfer funds (until it was completely unsustainable to do so) and when their support turned against each one of those initially popular appointments they were swiftly replaced. The mess has been created by Short giving them what they called for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Wow! https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/how-much-is-the-clubs-debt.1416931/ Grumpy Old Man Winger None whatseoever. I'm just going to post some real numbers for about the third time this week. These are got at by adding together all the numbers in the accounts for the last ten years. Turnover: £766..5m Staff costs: £577.2m Other operating costs: £192.1m Interest: £34.9m Cash outflow on players bought £309.m Cash inflow from players sold: £125.8m Debt on 1 August 2006 £35m Debt at 31 July 2017 £137m Debt converted to shares during that time £101m The one thing that hasn't happened is Short getting anything back. It's all gone, pretty much to players, their agents, and other football clubs. This is why I don't really get their hatred and blame of Short for their footballing position. Pretty much all of his managerial appointments have been initially popular with their support, he supported those managers with significant transfer funds (until it was completely unsustainable to do so) and when their support turned against each one of those initially popular appointments they were swiftly replaced. The mess has been created by Short giving them what they called for. I do he has made terrible decisions year after year. The only difference between Ashley and him is that no investment is better than terrible investment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Highly unlikely anyone will pay that much for a League One club, regardless of the potential. A Championship club? Possibly. Potential? Their potential is fake. Their paying core of fans isn't what they billed and is now being shown up once Premiership football and free tickets has ended. There's even those who've paid and aren't turning up. This isn't a club with potential. It's a club which tried to keep up with the jones', overspent in the wrong areas, pretended to be bigger than what they are and are now suffering the consequences. No one cares about the club outside of the North East. No one wants to play for them and the fans can't or won't put money in to it via tickets or merchandise. There isn't potential there to make money, there are much bigger clubs in the division in better financial positions who would cost less than their debt. Those are the real sleeping giants. That's a somewhat biased view IMO. They've just been a PL team for 10 years. Yes they hemorrhaged money virtually the whole time they were there, but that was down to inept senior management and absolutely pathetic player recruitment. Whilst I agree no-one really cares about them outside of the North East, the same could be said of Stoke, West Brom, Watford, Burnley, the list goes on. And the fact is they have a considerably larger fanbase than all of those mentioned. For all their faults, and fan-obsession with all things 'Mag', they absolutely have the potential to be an established PL team, although probably not to ever go further and consistently challenge towards the top 8. That said, the current state they find themselves in means they're a million miles away from that, and it's likely to be a long road back. Ah well, never mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Yeah, but their new club would be a nothing entity with no history, characterised by nothing other than some pink seats. Copied from the poster below you: Sir Bobby Robson: “What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.” They will still have their history, lets not make it into something its not. Plenty of stuff to laugh at as it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Highly unlikely anyone will pay that much for a League One club, regardless of the potential. A Championship club? Possibly. Potential? Their potential is fake. Their paying core of fans isn't what they billed and is now being shown up once Premiership football and free tickets has ended. There's even those who've paid and aren't turning up. This isn't a club with potential. It's a club which tried to keep up with the jones', overspent in the wrong areas, pretended to be bigger than what they are and are now suffering the consequences. No one cares about the club outside of the North East. No one wants to play for them and the fans can't or won't put money in to it via tickets or merchandise. There isn't potential there to make money, there are much bigger clubs in the division in better financial positions who would cost less than their debt. Those are the real sleeping giants. That's a somewhat biased view IMO. They've just been a PL team for 10 years. Yes they hemorrhaged money virtually the whole time they were there, but that was down to inept senior management and absolutely pathetic player recruitment. Whilst I agree no-one really cares about them outside of the North East, the same could be said of Stoke, West Brom, Watford, Burnley, the list goes on. And the fact is they have a considerably larger fanbase than all of those mentioned. For all their faults, and fan-obsession with all things 'Mag', they absolutely have the potential to be an established PL team, although probably not to ever go further and consistently challenge towards the top 8. That said, the current state they find themselves in means they're a million miles away from that, and it's likely to be a long road back. Ah well, never mind. You've totally overestimated them. They've had to sell their soul to the devil himself to stay in the premiership. They don't have the fan base, it was all lies built on free tickets and this has shown true when the chips are down. Just wait till next season when official attendances are in the teens and what turns up being even less. The rats have deserted the ship, a total contrast to the support we enjoyed both times going down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Even if they're fiddling the attendances they're still some of the highest in the Champ despite the dismal football and hopeless situation, and Sunderland are still certainly in the top 15-20 or so biggest clubs in the country. If we were in a situation as shit as theirs our attendances would plummet too. In 09/10 we opened up with 36k against Reading, and if we'd slumped into a relegation battle rather than a runaway title win it'd have continued to fall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Don't compare them to us, compare them to other teams that have become established in the PL. The likes of West Brom, Swansea, Stoke, Palace. Have they got a fan base to compare with the likes of them? Of course they have. Attendances probably will fall off a cliff if and when they get relegated. Yet whatever they are they'll probably still be greater than the teams mentioned would attract if they were in a similar situation, i.e playing in a lower league with a consistently poor team and discontent with the ownership. Anyway, the fact that they do have a sizable fanbase, will make their inevitable defeats to likes of Fleetwood, Southend, Bury or whoever they end up playing, just that little bit more amusing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 They'll not go down this season like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Again I’d rate the Sheffield clubs, Forest and Derby just as big as the mackems with Leeds and Villa much bigger. They are an average sized club as things stand with no real room to become bigger than what they are. They totally blew their Premier League years which turned out to be a complete waste of time. They did get 6 wins in a row against a certain club mind... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Birmingham are probably in the same bracket. A club capable of 20-30k crowds. I'd also say Blackburn & Coventry with competent owners. I know the fanbase isn't the greatest but they've been a top flight/upper second tier club for most of their existence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Birmingham are probably in the same bracket. A club capable of 20-30k crowds. I'd also say Blackburn & Coventry with competent owners. I know the fanbase isn't the greatest but they've been a top flight/upper second tier club for most of their existence. Aye forgot about them. I’d actually say the mackems are very similar to Coventry and Blackburn and may actually go the way they have in recent times. Birmingham should be doing much better as a club, even with all those other clubs in the West Midlands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Blackburn got disgraceful crowds at times in the PL. Even when they were in the top half under Hughes they were getting 16k against Watford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Blackburn got disgraceful crowds at times in the PL. Even when they were in the top half under Hughes they were getting 16k against Watford. I’m more talking about their place in English football as a club. They are just one of those nothing club’s that don’t seem to matter beyond their own town or city. Sunderland are in a desperate situation and always will be. Imagine if all that money spent on the club went into their city... that’s what let’s them down. No fucker wants to play for them and those that do get enticed by ridiculous wages. Players have no connection to the city or fans so they aren’t as determined or as willing to go the extra mile. It’s a pay packet to them. Same for most of their managers. Moyes was a disgrace last season, hoping his reputation would keep them up and getting paid fortunes. He basically walked in, had a look around nd thought, fuck me this lot aren’t staying up. Play the season out, get paid, land another job in the big league... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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