Foluwashola Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 They have taken their relegation and our subsequent Champioship win particularly badly it has to be said. Going back 12 months I don't think we took our relegation badly at all, especially when Rafa announced he was staying and this season started with plenty of optimism and a huge surge in season ticket sales. That in itself annoyed them massively as well. If you look at what they've got to look forward; David Moyes, losing their only 2 decent players, club in a moutain of debt, half empty stadium etc you can sort of understand the bitterness. It must be highly distressing tbf, they 'relegated' us and within 12 months we've recemented our position as the superior force in NE football. FTM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 They have taken their relegation and our subsequent Champioship win particularly badly it has to be said. Going back 12 months I don't think we took our relegation badly at all, especially when Rafa announced he was staying and this season started with plenty of optimism and a huge surge in season ticket sales. That in itself annoyed them massively as well. If you look at what they've got to look forward; David Moyes, losing their only 2 decent players, club in a moutain of debt, half empty stadium etc you can sort of understand the bitterness. It must be highly distressing tbf, they 'relegated' us and within 12 months we've recemented our position as the superior force in NE football. FTM. Crushed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 10 seasons in top flight, every season they had a negative goal difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decky Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 It raises the question about what's better really. Simply existing in the top flight for a decade and losing the majority of your games every year or competing in the lower league. Most teams want to go up and improve to compete in the Prem but this lot are clearly happy with 17th every year so what's the point? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 So how exactly are their finances ? I know they have mountains of debt but is that debt like ours all to the owner, therefore not really debt, or do they owe a bunch the the banks and stuff ? How much do we speculate we have lost following the relegation was it 30 million ? They get the new TV deal money which is 100 million I believe the old one we received for finishing 18th was how much 50 million ? If so, could they be in the a situation where they actually made 20 million last year ? Therefore their finances have actually improved, obviously they will take a big hit next year but they didn't really splurge in the transfer market the last two windows, they bought crap and overspent on one in particular but surely the whole bill for their purchases didn't eat up the entirety of the TV money. On Sunday we played Barnsley who had 6 loaned players in their squad, other clubs have followed the same approach. It's a cheap way to build a competitive squad at this level. Sunderland has used that loan market way too much in recent years as a determent to the own players development. Hell they are still proud of helping develop Rose, to me that's a failure to secure the services of someone who performed for you. They have no intention whatsover of purchasing these loaned players, just a way to fill out their squad. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that they can build a competitive championship squad on the cheap, if they get the 70 million they hope for for all their "superstars" that will help them immensely in the rebuild, if it's allowed (or even half that) to be plowed back into player recruitment. Not going to make any judgements on whether it will be a cake walk for them or a big struggle until everything shakes out, they do have some decent youngsters coming through apparently, if they can augment them with a bit of experience and quality then there is no reason whatsover that they shouldn't be one of the favourites to bounce back up. Moyes needs to learn to look past his old familiar places, stop picking up Everton and Manure rejects and bring in some loans or buys fthat can do a job in the Championship, just like Rafa did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHoob Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 10 seasons in top flight, every season they had a negative goal difference. Saw a post on RTG saying that they've only reached 40 points 3 times out of the 10 as well. Only three times have they had a top scorer on more than 11 goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBingo Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 So how exactly are their finances ? I know they have mountains of debt but is that debt like ours all to the owner, therefore not really debt, or do they owe a bunch the the banks and stuff ? How much do we speculate we have lost following the relegation was it 30 million ? They get the new TV deal money which is 100 million I believe the old one we received for finishing 18th was how much 50 million ? If so, could they be in the a situation where they actually made 20 million last year ? Therefore their finances have actually improved, obviously they will take a big hit next year but they didn't really splurge in the transfer market the last two windows, they bought crap and overspent on one in particular but surely the whole bill for their purchases didn't eat up the entirety of the TV money. On Sunday we played Barnsley who had 6 loaned players in their squad, other clubs have followed the same approach. It's a cheap way to build a competitive squad at this level. Sunderland has used that loan market way too much in recent years as a determent to the own players development. Hell they are still proud of helping develop Rose, to me that's a failure to secure the services of someone who performed for you. They have no intention whatsover of purchasing these loaned players, just a way to fill out their squad. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that they can build a competitive championship squad on the cheap, if they get the 70 million they hope for for all their "superstars" that will help them immensely in the rebuild, if it's allowed (or even half that) to be plowed back into player recruitment. Not going to make any judgements on whether it will be a cake walk for them or a big struggling until everything shakes out, they do have some decent youngsters coming through apparently, if they can augment them with a bit of experience and quality then there is no reason whatsover that they shouldn't be one of the favourites to bounce back up. Moyes needs to learn to look past his old familiar places, stop picking up Everton and Manure rejects and bring in some loans or buys fthat can do a job in the Championship, just like Rafa did. They've been losing north of £30m a season for years, are £150m plus in debt and are about to see a £60m drop in turnover. It's not looking particularly great for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 So how exactly are their finances ? I know they have mountains of debt but is that debt like ours all to the owner, therefore not really debt, or do they owe a bunch the the banks and stuff ? How much do we speculate we have lost following the relegation was it 30 million ? They get the new TV deal money which is 100 million I believe the old one we received for finishing 18th was how much 50 million ? If so, could they be in the a situation where they actually made 20 million last year ? Therefore their finances have actually improved, obviously they will take a big hit next year but they didn't really splurge in the transfer market the last two windows, they bought crap and overspent on one in particular but surely the whole bill for their purchases didn't eat up the entirety of the TV money. On Sunday we played Barnsley who had 6 loaned players in their squad, other clubs have followed the same approach. It's a cheap way to build a competitive squad at this level. Sunderland has used that loan market way too much in recent years as a determent to the own players development. Hell they are still proud of helping develop Rose, to me that's a failure to secure the services of someone who performed for you. They have no intention whatsover of purchasing these loaned players, just a way to fill out their squad. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that they can build a competitive championship squad on the cheap, if they get the 70 million they hope for for all their "superstars" that will help them immensely in the rebuild, if it's allowed (or even half that) to be plowed back into player recruitment. Not going to make any judgements on whether it will be a cake walk for them or a big struggling until everything shakes out, they do have some decent youngsters coming through apparently, if they can augment them with a bit of experience and quality then there is no reason whatsover that they shouldn't be one of the favourites to bounce back up. Moyes needs to learn to look past his old familiar places, stop picking up Everton and Manure rejects and bring in some loans or buys fthat can do a job in the Championship, just like Rafa did. They've been losing north of £30m a season for years, are £150m plus in debt and are about to see a £60m drop in turnover. It's not looking particularly great for them. But who are they in debt to, the owner or the banks ? If it's the owner then it's not worth worrying too much about, as it's just the value of his asset. He sells and it's all cleared up, he keeps the club and he has a decision to make to use any incoming cash to pay off his debt and slowly kill the club or he tries one last time to inject more cash to get them back up and be in a stronger selling position. If it's the banks they owe money too then they are truly screwed and probably can wave goodbye to the 100 million cheque which will land on their doorstep pretty soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 So how exactly are their finances ? I know they have mountains of debt but is that debt like ours all to the owner, therefore not really debt, or do they owe a bunch the the banks and stuff ? How much do we speculate we have lost following the relegation was it 30 million ? They get the new TV deal money which is 100 million I believe the old one we received for finishing 18th was how much 50 million ? If so, could they be in the a situation where they actually made 20 million last year ? Therefore their finances have actually improved, obviously they will take a big hit next year but they didn't really splurge in the transfer market the last two windows, they bought crap and overspent on one in particular but surely the whole bill for their purchases didn't eat up the entirety of the TV money. On Sunday we played Barnsley who had 6 loaned players in their squad, other clubs have followed the same approach. It's a cheap way to build a competitive squad at this level. Sunderland has used that loan market way too much in recent years as a determent to the own players development. Hell they are still proud of helping develop Rose, to me that's a failure to secure the services of someone who performed for you. They have no intention whatsover of purchasing these loaned players, just a way to fill out their squad. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that they can build a competitive championship squad on the cheap, if they get the 70 million they hope for for all their "superstars" that will help them immensely in the rebuild, if it's allowed (or even half that) to be plowed back into player recruitment. Not going to make any judgements on whether it will be a cake walk for them or a big struggling until everything shakes out, they do have some decent youngsters coming through apparently, if they can augment them with a bit of experience and quality then there is no reason whatsover that they shouldn't be one of the favourites to bounce back up. Moyes needs to learn to look past his old familiar places, stop picking up Everton and Manure rejects and bring in some loans or buys fthat can do a job in the Championship, just like Rafa did. They've been losing north of £30m a season for years, are £150m plus in debt and are about to see a £60m drop in turnover. It's not looking particularly great for them. But who are they in debt to, the owner or the banks ? If it's the owner ten it's not worth worrying too much about, as it's just the value of his asset. He sells and it's all cleared up, he keeps the club and he has a decision to make to use any incoming cash to pay off his debt and slowly kill the club or he tries one last time to inject more cash to get them back up and be in a stronger selling position. If it's the banks they owe money too then they are truly screwed and probably can wave goodbye to the 100 million cheque which will land on their doorstep pretty soon. not far off 50/50 owner and bank, that article posted in here on the other page summed it up well...think he moved some money from the bank to himself recently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 They should be hoping then that Short doesn't just give up on them, if he is a savvy businessman he probably should roll the dice one more time, do all he can to get the club back on the gravy train, then sell up as fast as he can. Their business model is clearly not working, there is no reason at all why they shouldn't be turning a profit, like we have been doing in recent years. Of course they don't generate anywhere near the income that we do outside of the TV deal, but they should still be able to have lived comfortably off the TV deal and their matchday income. Instead they've recruited terribly, changed managers on a frequent basis and therefore had to pay out big compensation packages. Like I said before they've abused the loan market to a point where they have spent a bulk of their budget on loan fees and those players have taking first team appearances away from their products hence why they've not had many salable assets in recent years. They need a whole restructure there from top to bottom, a whole new approach, perhaps that's Moyes's mandate and the reason they are keeping him on, ironically falling into the championship may be the best thing to happen to them to begin to implement that change. The problem is though the end goal is to obviously get back into the PL, they won't get back there in an expedited fashion unless they follow their previous mistakes of lots of loans and short term fixes. Can they afford to wait for the long term, it will benefit them hugely if they can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Have a look at this, afar! Lovely reading! http://www.true-faith.co.uk/sunderland-finances-wearside-crisis-special-issue/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Have a look at this, afar! Lovely reading! http://www.true-faith.co.uk/sunderland-finances-wearside-crisis-special-issue/ LOL, that's fantastic, thanks man. Thought this quote from there was pretty telling when it's toalking about their lack of money made through the turnstiles: "One of the highest average attendances in the division and one of the lowest gate receipts. Norwich, on about 15k lower attendances, generate more income through the turnstiles!!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figures 1-0 Football Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Have a look at this, afar! Lovely reading! http://www.true-faith.co.uk/sunderland-finances-wearside-crisis-special-issue/ LOL, that's fantastic, thanks man. Thought this quote from there was pretty telling when it's toalking about their lack of money made through the turnstiles: "One of the highest average attendances in the division and one of the lowest gate receipts. Norwich, on about 15k lower attendances, generate more income through the turnstiles!!" Norwich do have the cheek to charge about £80 for a ticket mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 They should be hoping then that Short doesn't just give up on them, if he is a savvy businessman he probably should roll the dice one more time, do all he can to get the club back on the gravy train, then sell up as fast as he can. Their business model is clearly not working, there is no reason at all why they shouldn't be turning a profit, like we have been doing in recent years. Of course they don't generate anywhere near the income that we do outside of the TV deal, but they should still be able to have lived comfortably off the TV deal and their matchday income. Instead they've recruited terribly, changed managers on a frequent basis and therefore had to pay out big compensation packages. Like I said before they've abused the loan market to a point where they have spent a bulk of their budget on loan fees and those players have taking first team appearances away from their products hence why they've not had many salable assets in recent years. They need a whole restructure there from top to bottom, a whole new approach, perhaps that's Moyes's mandate and the reason they are keeping him on, ironically falling into the championship may be the best thing to happen to them to begin to implement that change. The problem is though the end goal is to obviously get back into the PL, they won't get back there in an expedited fashion unless they follow their previous mistakes of lots of loans and short term fixes. Can they afford to wait for the long term, it will benefit them hugely if they can. It won't. What exactly do they have long term? There's nothing about them to suggest they'll be stronger long term than anyone else in the championship. They don't have the funds or the Manager to build anything. They've got a broken man who's living off an Everton spell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shintonsghost Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 fuck me they are dredging up everything the sad cunts have on us this week it's hilarious the meltdown these fans are having, they just can't admit things are a changing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 RTG has gone mental. 'Everyone on here is a mag apparently' 'You are, fucking nailed on.' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figures 1-0 Football Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 KingMackem on there seems to talk a bit of sense like. Because its PURE FOOTBALL not pure sunderland but there are alot of newcastle threads so I can understand why he might want to be on here since his club are talked about on multiple threads all day everyday on this forum One of the only few. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 KingMackem on there seems to talk a bit of sense like. Because its PURE FOOTBALL not pure sunderland but there are alot of newcastle threads so I can understand why he might want to be on here since his club are talked about on multiple threads all day everyday on this forum One of the only few. Mag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 https://www.facebook.com/SPORTbible/videos/2309692662509586/ Absolute bantz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 https://www.facebook.com/SPORTbible/videos/2309692662509586/ Absolute bantz Wasn't funny when they did the same joke word for word last season, and it's not funny now. Some fucking melts man. If they want to take the piss then at least come up with something fucking new, a plane and a phonecall, all of which Sunderland have already done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 https://www.facebook.com/SPORTbible/videos/2309692662509586/ Absolute bantz Wasn't funny when they did the same joke word for word last season, and it's not funny now. Some f***ing melts man. If they want to take the p*ss then at least come up with something f***ing new, a plane and a phonecall, all of which Sunderland have already done. Tbf the plane and phonecalls were done by other clubs well before the mackems did it as well. Football fans across the country aren't What They used to be when it comes to humour and originality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-421 Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Saw this on FB last night, and probably sums up Wearside this morning Sorry if its been posted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Is he crying because his shirt is on inside out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Can't be bothered to screenshot, upload and whatnot, but the reply to the second comment about the flyover banner. 'Class'. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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