Rafael Benitez

[Guest firetotheworks]

This thread makes me understand why we get the deluded tag tbh.

 

Deluded about what exactly?

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I can see, most people are discussing tactics after a bad home defeat.

 

A lot of the thread has posts about him not having a plan B, which just shows a lack of basic football knowledge when you think about his most famous victory.

 

Then...

Another Championship manager could do a better job in this division imo. But medium/long term? He's the best man for sure.

 

 

Discussing tactics is fine, and it's not that discussion that I'm referring to, but there comes a point where you need to take a step back and look at the situation.

 

Horrific owner, terrible scout, average unsuited players, no money spent in January and yet here we are, with Rafa Benitez as our manager sitting 6 points clear in the automatic promotion places with people still finding a way to moan, when in another far more realistic alternative universe we're sitting mid to lower table with Nigel Pearson as our manager, or in our 6th year with Pardew as manager. There's looking a gift horse in the mouth and then there's just pure delusion.

 

This thread makes me understand why we get the deluded tag tbh.

 

Deluded about what exactly?

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I can see, most people are discussing tactics after a bad home defeat.

 

He's best off ignored. Plenty of good, reasoned debate on here. His "contribution" isn't really worthy of a response.

 

When your contribution is anything other than links to RTG threads, let me know.

 

Less than 1% of my contribution is links to other sites. Carry on being pointless.

 

Well that's a lie. Even your sig.

[Benwell Lad]

This thread makes me understand why we get the deluded tag tbh.

 

Deluded about what exactly?

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I can see, most people are discussing tactics after a bad home defeat.

 

Tbh I think it's pretty deluded for some to think you'd be in a better position if Rafa had left last summer.

 

Got to say I know an awful lot of Newcastle supporters but not one who even remotely thinks that 

[Yorkie]

This thread makes me understand why we get the deluded tag tbh.

 

Deluded about what exactly?

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I can see, most people are discussing tactics after a bad home defeat.

 

A lot of the thread has posts about him not having a plan B, which just shows a lack of basic football knowledge when you think about his most famous victory.

 

Then...

Another Championship manager could do a better job in this division imo. But medium/long term? He's the best man for sure.

 

 

Discussing tactics is fine, and it's not that discussion that I'm referring to, it's about stepping back from one match and looking at the bigger picture. That doesn't mean that we haven't played badly, or that our home form is troubling, it's more the following:

 

Horrific owner, terrible scout, average unsuited players, no money spent in January against Rafa's wishes, and yet here we are, with Rafa Benitez as our manager, a title winning Champions League winning manager,  sitting 6 points clear in the automatic promotion places with people still finding a way to moan about the little bits in the jigsaw, when in another far more realistic alternative universe we're sitting mid to lower table with Nigel Pearson as our manager, or in our 6th year with Pardew as manager. There's looking a gift horse in the mouth and then there's just pure delusion.

 

This thread makes me understand why we get the deluded tag tbh.

 

Deluded about what exactly?

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I can see, most people are discussing tactics after a bad home defeat.

 

He's best off ignored. Plenty of good, reasoned debate on here. His "contribution" isn't really worthy of a response.

 

When your contribution is anything other than links to RTG threads, let me know.

 

 

Tedious stuff. There are a lot of accusations flying around this place regarding bedwetting/hysteria/whatever you want to call it - and a lot of the time it's completely unfounded. But fuck me, there really is some utter nonsense spouted after a defeat.

 

We'll lose at least once more this season, n'all. Folks had better prepare for it.

[Wallsendmag]

This thread makes me understand why we get the deluded tag tbh.

 

Deluded about what exactly?

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I can see, most people are discussing tactics after a bad home defeat.

 

A lot of the thread has posts about him not having a plan B, which just shows a lack of basic football knowledge when you think about his most famous victory.

 

Then...

Another Championship manager could do a better job in this division imo. But medium/long term? He's the best man for sure.

 

 

Discussing tactics is fine, and it's not that discussion that I'm referring to, but there comes a point where you need to take a step back and look at the situation.

 

Horrific owner, terrible scout, average unsuited players, no money spent in January and yet here we are, with Rafa Benitez as our manager sitting 6 points clear in the automatic promotion places with people still finding a way to moan, when in another far more realistic alternative universe we're sitting mid to lower table with Nigel Pearson as our manager, or in our 6th year with Pardew as manager. There's looking a gift horse in the mouth and then there's just pure delusion.

 

This thread makes me understand why we get the deluded tag tbh.

 

Deluded about what exactly?

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I can see, most people are discussing tactics after a bad home defeat.

 

He's best off ignored. Plenty of good, reasoned debate on here. His "contribution" isn't really worthy of a response.

 

When your contribution is anything other than links to RTG threads, let me know.

 

Less than 1% of my contribution is links to other sites. Carry on being pointless.

 

Well that's a lie. Even your sig.

 

Just took a sample of my previous 100 posts. 0% links to RTG or any other site for that matter. Now on the subject of signatures, yours says it all.

[Guest firetotheworks]

This thread makes me understand why we get the deluded tag tbh.

 

Deluded about what exactly?

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I can see, most people are discussing tactics after a bad home defeat.

 

A lot of the thread has posts about him not having a plan B, which just shows a lack of basic football knowledge when you think about his most famous victory.

 

Then...

Another Championship manager could do a better job in this division imo. But medium/long term? He's the best man for sure.

 

 

Discussing tactics is fine, and it's not that discussion that I'm referring to, but there comes a point where you need to take a step back and look at the situation.

 

Horrific owner, terrible scout, average unsuited players, no money spent in January and yet here we are, with Rafa Benitez as our manager sitting 6 points clear in the automatic promotion places with people still finding a way to moan, when in another far more realistic alternative universe we're sitting mid to lower table with Nigel Pearson as our manager, or in our 6th year with Pardew as manager. There's looking a gift horse in the mouth and then there's just pure delusion.

 

This thread makes me understand why we get the deluded tag tbh.

 

Deluded about what exactly?

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I can see, most people are discussing tactics after a bad home defeat.

 

He's best off ignored. Plenty of good, reasoned debate on here. His "contribution" isn't really worthy of a response.

 

When your contribution is anything other than links to RTG threads, let me know.

 

Less than 1% of my contribution is links to other sites. Carry on being pointless.

 

Well that's a lie. Even your sig.

 

Just took a sample of my previous 100 posts. 0% links to RTG or any other site for that matter. Now on the subject of signatures, yours says it all.

 

It does. It does indeed.

[Guest reefatoon]

Wow, this has turned into a massive pile of cunt.

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ginuVD2oGJA/U1PRDdk5XfI/AAAAAAAAKfs/9Qy9yiivAxY/s1600/Seinfeld+Slap+Fight.gif

[ohmelads]

This thread makes me understand why we get the deluded tag tbh.

 

Deluded about what exactly?

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I can see, most people are discussing tactics after a bad home defeat.

 

Tbh I think it's pretty deluded for some to think you'd be in a better position if Rafa had left last summer.

 

Got to say I know an awful lot of Newcastle supporters but not one who even remotely thinks that 

 

Was going to post the same thing til I saw your post. Who's saying this?

[joeyt]

Another Championship manager could do a better job in this division imo.

 

I think the manager we sacked and he replaced would have more points on the board with this squad.

[Away Toon]

I've come to the conclusion his strength isn't league management. Too cautious. Over a 38 league season he's only over managed 80 points or more once. A minimum of 12 losses or draws. Certainly the Liverpool team didn't win the title due to too many home draws.

 

But we will get promoted. If Ashley can show some ambition over the next few years we will become a top 8 side and with Rafa in charge - we should really grab some silverware.

 

Can't see Ashley matching the ambition.

 

 

I wonder who won him the two league titles in Spain with a club that wasn't one of the big 2?  He didn't win it once which you could put down as a fluke but you don't usually fluke your way to two titles. I guess he could have treated the league season as a cup competition though.

 

Won it with 70 something points twice. 1 of them Deportivo finished 2nd.

 

Neither were flukes. But it just goes to show the best seasons in his career - his team still dropped a lot of points. He regularly got similar amount of points at Liverpool but that wasn't enough to win league titles. His best ever season in terms of points was at Liverpool which they lost against a very strong Man Utd side. Again you would say being too defensive at home cost them the league. Too many home draws.

 

It's a pattern in his career. He's a fine manager but his teams have never dominated a league.

 

Is there a manager who dominates a league ready to take the job?

 

I'm not advocating that we can do better.

 

I'm saying - rafa making harder work of this league than we might have imagined isn't an indication he's not still a top manager or we should be worried long-term. It's actually consistent in his career. It's not his style to steamroller any division. Another Championship manager could do a better job in this division imo. But medium/long term? He's the best man for sure.

 

Another championship manager like Steve Bruce? Or Alex Neil? Norwich and Villa fans would happily swap places with you right now. At the season's start, I thought Norwich had a stronger side than you and were better suited to the Champo, fwiw.

 

But really, who? Gary Monk? I think some of you forget how on your arse you were when you went down and how downright godawful, p*ss-stinking, laughing-stock s*** you've been for more than a decade. And that's not even considering the off the field fuckery. You could easily be where Villa are now, with 30,000 every week moaning their arse off, in absolute pieces. In fact I'll stick my neck out and say that if you hadn't got Rafa, and if he hadn't got you a couple of good players like Clark and Ritchie and others, you'd be absolutely Freddie f***ed right now.

 

Maybe there is some Liverpool love in on here that I'm not aware of, but although we are the epitome of a badly run club, Liverpool have continued to spend a fortune year in year out and have virtually nothing to show for it. Your recent failures are virtually as bad as ours considering the money you've spent.

[Sho Time]

Just going out on a limb here, I don't think they are.

[The College Dropout]

Another Championship manager could do a better job in this division imo.

 

I think the manager we sacked and he replaced would have more points on the board with this squad.

 

Taken out of context. Rafa's the man for us. He'll succeed in the Prem. He's making heavier work of this league than others would. I'm not panicking, we'll be promoted.

[Guest dazzanufc1892]

These comments are perhaps the most embarrassing on this board in a very long time. The fact is Rafa knows our deficiencies and when he tried to correct them he wasn't afforded the opportunity. He knew what was needed to push on and steam roll this league, the fact it was blocked isn't his fault.

 

He is an elite level manager who is trying to change a whole club but doesn't have the tools to do so. It can't be held against him the fact we have to rely on players like Colback who can not grasp or play to the messages he gives out.

 

Take it into perspective we are top of the league, what more do you people want? I was sat in the stands Saturday and you can see Rafa trying to give out messages that the players simply don't have the intelligence to effect.

[Shearergol]

These comments are perhaps the most embarrassing on this board in a very long time. The fact is Rafa knows our deficiencies and when he tried to correct them he wasn't afforded the opportunity. He knew what was needed to push on and steam roll this league, the fact it was blocked isn't his fault.

 

He is an elite level manager who is trying to change a whole club but doesn't have the tools to do so. It can't be held against him the fact we have to rely on players like Colback who can not grasp or play to the messages he gives out.

 

Take it into perspective we are top of the league, what more do you people want? I was sat in the stands Saturday and you can see Rafa trying to give out messages that the players simply don't have the intelligence to effect.

 

You're 100% spot on, but it's interesting how many people defend the players in other threads. We've got some absolute shite in our team who without Rafa would see us languishing in Villa territory.

[ohmelads]

There you have it then, deluded fanbase 

 

I seem to recall the whole southern deluded stereotype came about when we were sh*t for so long and protested about it, and people believed we should accept it because we're not a big club and shouldn't aspire beyond sh*tness. Only 'big' clubs can do that. I think for many people it's the only way to explain why a club with no silverware for decades can achieve relatively huge attendances ("do they think they're gonna win the league or something"). We even had the same morons telling us Pardew and Ashley were good for the club at various times over the last decade. As soon as we show any sign of progress, if a single fan moans about a 3-1 home defeat then we're deluded because we've forgotten our place again. If people accepted that attitude, we'd have a half empty stadium...

 

As for the one or two people (a tiny minority, it seems) suggesting we might have a higher points total without Rafa, I couldn't disagree more. Yes we've dropped a lot of points at home to some pretty poor sides (not including Fulham in that, before the deluded tag comes out) - but Rafa brought positivity and belief to the club at a time when we were in freefall. Belief not just for the fans, but players know who he is and they're far more likely to believe in his methods even when things don't go well. Rafa's earned that benefit of the doubt from players and fans over the course of his career - some managers will find it hard to keep players' faith after a few bad results. You only have to look at Villa and Norwich who both have some very good players at this level.

 

I think Rafa's negative tactics reflect a lack of confidence in the squad he's got. He isn't perfect, and I think he needs to find a less rigid system at home. We're 7th in the home league table - there's nothing wrong with suggesting he needs to change something at home. I have faith he'll find a way, but the last two home games are cause for concern considering Huddersfield's form. He doesn't have a lot of options to change it around because looking at the squad, we're light on creative players. That should have been addressed in January.

[TRon]

It's not a deluded fanbase though, and no one is suggesting it is. There's definitely a few on here who think the problem is the manager though and it's not just after one defeat, it's every time we have a setback. I've thought about the conservative approach at home games a lot and while I would like to see us going for it a bit more, I also share some of Rafa's doubts about whether we've got the players to do it. If you are going to push more men forward, you better hope the strikers will put them away, and the midfield and defence can cope with a stretched formation. If Colback's one of those midfielders, would you trust him to cover the ground quickly on a counter attack by the opposition?

 

 

[TheDonis]

I've come to the conclusion his strength isn't league management. Too cautious. Over a 38 league season he's only over managed 80 points or more once. A minimum of 12 losses or draws. Certainly the Liverpool team didn't win the title due to too many home draws.

 

But we will get promoted. If Ashley can show some ambition over the next few years we will become a top 8 side and with Rafa in charge - we should really grab some silverware.

 

Can't see Ashley matching the ambition.

 

 

I wonder who won him the two league titles in Spain with a club that wasn't one of the big 2?  He didn't win it once which you could put down as a fluke but you don't usually fluke your way to two titles. I guess he could have treated the league season as a cup competition though.

 

Won it with 70 something points twice. 1 of them Deportivo finished 2nd.

 

Neither were flukes. But it just goes to show the best seasons in his career - his team still dropped a lot of points. He regularly got similar amount of points at Liverpool but that wasn't enough to win league titles. His best ever season in terms of points was at Liverpool which they lost against a very strong Man Utd side. Again you would say being too defensive at home cost them the league. Too many home draws.

 

It's a pattern in his career. He's a fine manager but his teams have never dominated a league.

 

Is there a manager who dominates a league ready to take the job?

 

I'm not advocating that we can do better.

 

I'm saying - rafa making harder work of this league than we might have imagined isn't an indication he's not still a top manager or we should be worried long-term. It's actually consistent in his career. It's not his style to steamroller any division. Another Championship manager could do a better job in this division imo. But medium/long term? He's the best man for sure.

 

Another championship manager like Steve Bruce? Or Alex Neil? Norwich and Villa fans would happily swap places with you right now. At the season's start, I thought Norwich had a stronger side than you and were better suited to the Champo, fwiw.

 

But really, who? Gary Monk? I think some of you forget how on your arse you were when you went down and how downright godawful, p*ss-stinking, laughing-stock s*** you've been for more than a decade. And that's not even considering the off the field fuckery. You could easily be where Villa are now, with 30,000 every week moaning their arse off, in absolute pieces. In fact I'll stick my neck out and say that if you hadn't got Rafa, and if he hadn't got you a couple of good players like Clark and Ritchie and others, you'd be absolutely Freddie f***ed right now.

 

Maybe there is some Liverpool love in on here that I'm not aware of, but although we are the epitome of a badly run club, Liverpool have continued to spend a fortune year in year out and have virtually nothing to show for it. Your recent failures are virtually as bad as ours considering the money you've spent.

 

Hmmm.

 

I haven't seen us relegated recently.

 

We've made some terrible mistakes though, admittedly. Not least getting rid of Rafa and replacing him with a monumental fraud like Roy Hodgson. Maybe a lesson in there somewhere?

[Hanshithispantz]

People are defending the players against nonesense like Dummett being a League 1 player, or suggestions we should sell Shelvey as soon as we go up.

 

Our team is definitely one of the strongest in the league, arguably the strongest, but it's not lightyears ahead and it was basically cobbled together in 1 window - this whole season has been a bit of a rush job, which it had to be. We have clear weaknesses that should have been addressed in the summer and if it wasn't for Rafa and his apparent shite tactics then I think it's highly likely we'd be fucked.

[Shearergol]

People are defending the players against nonesense like Dummett being a League 1 player, or suggestions we should sell Shelvey as soon as we go up.

 

Our team is definitely one of the strongest in the league, arguably the strongest, but it's not lightyears ahead and it was basically cobbled together in 1 window - this whole season has been a bit of a rush job, which it had to be. We have clear weaknesses that should have been addressed in the summer and if it wasn't for Rafa and his apparent shite tactics then I think it's highly likely we'd be fucked.

 

I said Gouffran was league one standard. I'm happy to accept Dummett is an average championship clogger

[Paully]

Rafa is the best thing to happen to us for many years - I avoid this thread after a bad defeat!

 

We'd be royally ferked if he hadn't of remained and we would probably be where Villa are with crowds of about 30K!

[Hanshithispantz]

An average Championship clogger that's easily good enough for the Premierhship? Fair enough.

 

Gouffran isn't good enough for us but he would still do a job for half the sides in this league.

[Shearergol]

An average Championship clogger that's easily good enough for the Premierhship? Fair enough.

 

Gouffran isn't good enough for us but he would still do a job for half the sides in this league.

 

Let's not get into this in every thread, but again, it's my opinion that Dummett isn't good enough for the premiership, and my opinion that Gouffran is no better than the league one players I get to watch most weeks. Opinion. You know, opinion.

 

Easily good enough for the premiership is just a lie ;-)

[Guest ElCid]

An average Championship clogger that's easily good enough for the Premierhship? Fair enough.

 

Gouffran isn't good enough for us but he would still do a job for half the sides in this league.

 

Dummett good enough for the premiership are you really saying that?

[Bimpy474]

Are these comments not over reactions to comments that are over reactions. Then some who've made perfectly fair observations are slung in with people who have over reacted.

 

I hate two holding players, Rafa loves them. I'll always hate it doesn't mean i don't Rafa as manager and want Steve Bruce. I love Rafa, who couldn't, i mean what a fabulous man he is, getting to know the city, the people. That's a special bloke right there and 99.9% see it.

 

Showing certain concerns about a certain game or about the tactics or formations in a perfectly ok way is fine, embarrassing is the right term for most of this, goes both ways mind.

[Hanshithispantz]

West Brom play Craig Dawson at full back, man

 

Leicester won the league with Danny Simpson. Do you honestly think Dummett is any worse than Martin Kelly, Stephen Ward or Phil Bardsley? There seems to be some mental view that a Premiership fullback is some all-round marauding faux-winger. There's plenty of cloggers up there, Dummett will probably be one of them either with us or someone else.

[Guest]

One of the biggest pile of s**** I read on here is people don't rate Dummett just because he's not attacking like. He doesn't have to be particularly attacking, just handy at passing a ball, crossing a ball, controlling a ball, not panicking on the ball, etc. If Dummett is our left-back next season I feel sorry for whoever is in front of him. To be able to do anything he'll have to be able to kill a ball over his shoulder from 40 yards stone dead with a Premier League full-back on him and the touchline in view.